Don't tell them you know martial arts

Steve

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Well its interesting how young people are being charged as adults for physical confrontations. Some people such as pgsmith have pointed out that young people are naive and that they think they know more than they do. If that's so than they should be able to use that as a defense in court, "Im young, I didn't know better. After all being young and all I think I know more than I do so I didn't know this was wrong," yet more and more people who are under the ages of 18 or 21 are being charged as adults, such as in this case.

In The Spotlite Six Teen Girls Gang Beat 16-year-old for YouTube Video
PhotonGuy, do you think that these teens were too young to know that what they were doing was wrong? Do you think they deserved to be tried as adults?

Personally, I think you raise an interesting point. People have to be accountable for their actions. We have juvenile laws precisely because sometimes good kids do really stupid things, because they're half baked adults. But, sometimes, the things they do are so agregious that they are not excusable. In some cases, the actions are so bad that they can change the course of that child's life forever. As a parent, I'll say my goal isn't to create perfect children who never make mistakes. Rather, it's to guide them and prevent them from making mistakes that they can't learn from or recover from.

Considering this occurred so long ago, I looked up the results. There were actually 8 teens involved, some as young as 15, and the oldest was, I believe 19 at the time. Interesting that none received punishment that would ruin their lives, although it certainly could have turned out worse. The victim in all of this, Victoria Lindsay, seems to have some personal issues, as well. Her mugshot is below from a few years later.

Error

As for the teens involved, a summary of the final court decisions for each are below:
NAME: Brittini Hardcastle, 18

ROLE: Hardcastle has been described by witnesses as the main attacker in the video. In it, she can be seen wearing pink pants and a white shirt.

PUNISHMENT: She was sentenced to 15 days in jail and three years' probation. She pleaded guilty to false imprisonment and battery.

NAME: Mercades Nichols, 18

ROLE: Prosecutors say Nichols 'partially arranged' for a fight to take place. The beating occurred at her grandmother's Highland City home. Nichols can be seen sitting on a couch during the attack.

PUNISHMENT: Nichols was sentenced to three years' probation and 100 hours of community service. She pleaded guilty to battery and tampering with a witness. She also pleaded guilty to violating an injunction, battery and assault charges in an unrelated case.

NAME: April Cooper, 15

ROLE: Cooper can be seen arguing with Lindsay on the video and striking her 籀 including the initial punches of the attack. She is wearing a red shirt and jeans.

PUNISHMENT: Cooper was sentenced to two years of juvenile probation. She pleaded guilty to two counts of misdemeanor battery.

NAME: Brittany Mayes, 18

ROLE: Mayes has been described by witnesses as being responsible for filming the attack.

PUNISHMENT: Mayes was sentenced to one year of juvenile probation and 50 hours of community service. She pleaded guilty to misdemeanor battery.

NAME: Kayla Hassall, 16

ROLE: Hassall can be seen screaming at Lindsay on the video. She is wearing a gray shirt and jean shorts. She told prosecutors her mother's video camera was used to record the beating. She denied doing any filming.

PUNISHMENT: Hassall was sentenced to one year of juvenile probation. She pleaded no contest to misdemeanor battery.

NAME: Cara Murphy, 17

ALLEGED ROLE: Accused of being present during the attack.

OUTCOME: Prosecutors dropped charges last year because of insufficient evidence.

NAME: Zachary Ashley, 18

ALLEGED ROLE: Accused of serving as a lookout during the fight.

OUTCOME: Prosecutors dropped charges last year because of insufficient evidence.

NAME: Stephen Schumaker, 19

ALLEGED ROLE: Accused of serving as a lookout during the fight.

OUTCOME: Prosecutors dropped charges last year because of insufficient evidence.
 

jks9199

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Well its interesting how young people are being charged as adults for physical confrontations. Some people such as pgsmith have pointed out that young people are naive and that they think they know more than they do. If that's so than they should be able to use that as a defense in court, "Im young, I didn't know better. After all being young and all I think I know more than I do so I didn't know this was wrong," yet more and more people who are under the ages of 18 or 21 are being charged as adults, such as in this case.

In The Spotlite Six Teen Girls Gang Beat 16-year-old for YouTube Video
Waiving a juvenile to adult court is not all that common, and far from easy. Generally, it's limited to very serious offenses, often committed by offenders who have a long history. Almost always, it's violent offenses.
 

Dirty Dog

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Well its interesting how young people are being charged as adults for physical confrontations. Some people such as pgsmith have pointed out that young people are naive and that they think they know more than they do. If that's so than they should be able to use that as a defense in court, "Im young, I didn't know better. After all being young and all I think I know more than I do so I didn't know this was wrong," yet more and more people who are under the ages of 18 or 21 are being charged as adults, such as in this case.

In The Spotlite Six Teen Girls Gang Beat 16-year-old for YouTube Video

There is a huge difference between being a fool and not knowing right from wrong. It should shock me that you'd make a suggestion like this, but it really doesn't.
 
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PhotonGuy

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There is a huge difference between being a fool and not knowing right from wrong. It should shock me that you'd make a suggestion like this, but it really doesn't.

So you're saying I don't know the difference between being a fool and what's right and wrong? Interesting you should make such assumptions about me since you don't know me from Adam.
 
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PhotonGuy

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Waiving a juvenile to adult court is not all that common, and far from easy. Generally, it's limited to very serious offenses, often committed by offenders who have a long history. Almost always, it's violent offenses.

Well there's this other case which also was in Florida which occurred just a few years after the Victoria Lindsay case was this other case where Wayne Treacy smashed in Josie Lou Ratley's skull and ended up getting a 20 year prison sentence. Wayne was 15 at the time. I posed this story before but here is the link.
Wayne Treacy Teenager jailed for 20 years for stomping on girl s head with steel-toed boots outside school Daily Mail Online
 

ballen0351

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Well there's this other case which also was in Florida which occurred just a few years after the Victoria Lindsay case was this other case where Wayne Treacy smashed in Josie Lou Ratley's skull and ended up getting a 20 year prison sentence. Wayne was 15 at the time. I posed this story before but here is the link.
Wayne Treacy Teenager jailed for 20 years for stomping on girl s head with steel-toed boots outside school Daily Mail Online
At 15 your old enough to know kicking someone on the head with a steel toe boot is wrong and can cause serious bodily injury or death. In this state some crimes if committed by juveniles are automatically waved to adult court. 15 year old stopping a girls head in with boots would qualify. I'm not sure what juveniles being waved to adults have to do with your topic however BUT this is a classic example of why your threads go off topic like I said before it's normally you that derail your own threads
 
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PhotonGuy

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At 15 your old enough to know kicking someone on the head with a steel toe boot is wrong and can cause serious bodily injury or death. In this state some crimes if committed by juveniles are automatically waved to adult court. 15 year old stopping a girls head in with boots would qualify. I'm not sure what juveniles being waved to adults have to do with your topic however BUT this is a classic example of why your threads go off topic like I said before it's normally you that derail your own threads

Right but those girls who beat up that cheerleader really badly, supposedly even though they were initially going to be charged as adults they all got lighter sentences and supposedly some or all of them are not going to have permanent records. Wayne Treacy on the other hand is getting a 20 year prison sentence and a permanent record. It probably has something to do with the fact that Wayne Treacy was a boy and he was stomping a girl's head. When a boy commits such an act against a girl you can expect a heavier sentence.

As for me derailing threads I can be random.
 
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PhotonGuy

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PHOTONGUY SAID:
So you're saying I don't know the difference between being a fool and what's right and wrong? .
Based on your posts yes that's exactly what is being stated

A fool is a person who lacks good sense or judgement. That can include not knowing right and wrong.

And its hard to make assumptions about somebody when you don't know them from Adam.
 

ballen0351

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Right but those girls who beat up that cheerleader really badly, supposedly even though they were initially going to be charged as adults they all got lighter sentences and supposedly some or all of them are not going to have permanent records. Wayne Treacy on the other hand is getting a 20 year prison sentence and a permanent record. It probably has something to do with the fact that Wayne Treacy was a boy and he was stomping a girl's head. When a boy commits such an act against a girl you can expect a heavier sentence.

As for me derailing threads I can be random.
All that can depend on hundreds of different factors including state and local laws, who got better lawyers, who got better prosecutors, judges mood that day, what please deals were worked out, victims wishes, suspects remorse, past police contact, who got paid what under the table, how the stars and moon were aligned that day. SO just remember two cases are ever alike and you can't really compare them.
 

ballen0351

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A fool is a person who lacks good sense or judgement. That can include not knowing right and wrong.

And its hard to make assumptions about somebody when you don't know them from Adam.
You right all I can judge are your posts and well..............
 

jks9199

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Well there's this other case which also was in Florida which occurred just a few years after the Victoria Lindsay case was this other case where Wayne Treacy smashed in Josie Lou Ratley's skull and ended up getting a 20 year prison sentence. Wayne was 15 at the time. I posed this story before but here is the link.
Wayne Treacy Teenager jailed for 20 years for stomping on girl s head with steel-toed boots outside school Daily Mail Online
This contradicts my post how? Waiving is rare enough to be newsworthy, and I think the offense here would qualify as rather serious.

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drop bear

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Your point? Many of us are quite familiar with mens rea as well as actus reus... and also mala in se and mala prohibida. I'm not even sure what your resonding to here...

You get young enough and it becomes almost impossible to pin a kid for a crime.

So it factors in regarding children and legal responsibility for their actions.
 

jks9199

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You get young enough and it becomes almost impossible to pin a kid for a crime.

So it factors in regarding children and legal responsibility for their actions.
True. The general rule is that a child below the she of reason (typically age 7) cannot commit a crime. Serious misbehavior that might be more criminal in nature is dealt with in other ways. Even into the early teens, it's not that common for criminal punishment.

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MaxRob

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The issue often is use of excessive force, but in the end I would only use my tequniques to defend my life and those I love.... Don't see an issue in Court you have aright to defend your life.However not disclosing your practice in martial arts has its advantages,when the time comes for real self defense your opponents don't see you coming, you have a surprise advantage.Avoiding one using a firearm against you simply because they know they cannot mess with you in an unarmed attack
 
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