Don't tell them you know martial arts

[Drose427]

I Love BJJ - Have you ever been choked unconscious or done... Facebook

From the mouth of various horses.



So all those people I just linked to are going to be retards at some point?

Not remembering what happened after being knocked unconscious isnt the same thing as not know what was going on during the choke XD

Its pretty common for people to be dazed and confused after a car crash, but until they hit their head they know they were crashing haha

 

[Dirty Dog]

I Love BJJ - Have you ever been choked unconscious or done... Facebook

From the mouth of various horses.

So all those people I just linked to are going to be retards at some point?

If they can be choked and not notice there is an arm (or hands, or whatever) wrapped around their throat, then I suspect there is already some degree of brain damage.

Of course, it's not at all uncommon for people not to remember events immediately surrounding a period of unconsciousness. Doesn't mean they were not fully aware of what was happening at the time, just that (in choking cases) the anoxia affected their memory.

I'd say that anytime there's enough anoxia to both render you unconscious AND affect your memory of the event, there's good reason to be concerned.

How many times have you personally been choked out? The answer might be revealing...

 

[Hanzou]

Not remembering what happened after being knocked unconscious isnt the same thing as not know what was going on during the choke XD

Its pretty common for people to be dazed and confused after a car crash, but until they hit their head they know they were crashing haha

Actually if you read some of the accounts, the choke was on before they realized it. It definitely happens in competition and training. It's definitely more likely to happen when the grip is in place, and you haven't realized it has sunk in, and you begin to try to fight it off.

 

[Drose427]

Actually if you read some of the accounts, the choke was on before they realized it. It definitely happens in competition and training. It's definitely more likely to happen when the grip is in place, and you haven't realized it has sunk in, and you begin to try to fight it off.

Not a simgle account on the first page of comments was like that.

They all knew what choke they where in and what was coming.

 

[Hanzou]

Not a simgle account on the first page of comments was like that.

They all knew what choke they where in and what was coming.

Walter Mack Really, the two times I've gone out, I thought I was defending well so I didn't tap. I didn't know I was out until I woke up, so it didn't feel like anything.

He even provided the video (watch how fast the choke hits him);

 

[Drose427]

He even provided the video (watch how fast the choke hits him);

"Thought I was defending well"

Still knew he was being choked bud

 

[Hanzou]

"Thought I was defending well"

Still knew he was being choked bud

Uh, if you think you're defending a choke, you're not realizing you're being choked. There's a difference.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Perhaps you could show me someone trained in self defence advocating stomps to the head or throat once the attacker is incapacitated, and I do mean 'self defence', not 'combatives'.

Well ... I've seen plenty of people who claim to be teaching self-defense demonstrating stomps to the head of an incapacitated opponent. Some Kempo instructors are particularly guilty of this.

I'd agree with you that in most cases this would not actually be self-defense.

Depends where you're at. If you're in college fights are almost guaranteed. As I said earlier, college is a zoo.

I don't think I ever even saw a fight the whole time I was in college. I'm not discounting your experience, but I am saying it's far from universal.

When in a clip I posted, and in the article here How Do Rear Naked Chokes Work University of Calgary Study Explains - Bloody Elbow there were people who didnt even begin to tap at or until the 25 second mark. Waiting till they go limp, and a few seconds after that, is dangerously close to hitting that one minute mark where damage starts occuring

If someone takes 25 seconds to pass out, then the blood flow and oxygen to their brain were not fully obstructed the whole time.

Like I said, better to be judged by 9 than carried by 6.

While I agree, I dislike the saying because it promotes the idea that those are likely to be your only two choices. This is rarely the case.

I have never been choked without knowing it was happening. Nor have I ever known anybody who didn't notice they were being choked.

I have actually choked someone unconscious who had no idea he was being choked. Afterwards he told me that if it happened again he still wouldn't have tapped because he felt in absolutely no danger.

Of course, that's only happened once out of all the countless times I've choked people, so it's not exactly a common occurrence.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Depends where you're at. If you're in college fights are almost guaranteed. As I said earlier, college is a zoo.

Where did you go to school, Shittown U? Or were you just a dickhead to everybody?

I've spent more than a little time on the campus of various colleges and universities. And never once been in a fight on or near those facilities, nor even felt threatened.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I have actually choked someone unconscious who had no idea he was being choked. Afterwards he told me that if it happened again he still wouldn't have tapped because he felt in absolutely no danger.

Again, being rendered unconscious can screw with your memory of events.

For that matter, I've dropped people with strikes they didn't remember being hit with.

By some peoples logic, I guess those were "gentle" strikes, and perfectly safe.

 

[Drose427]

Well ... I've seen plenty of people who claim to be teaching self-defense demonstrating stomps to the head of an incapacitated opponent. Some Kempo instructors are particularly guilty of this.

I'd agree with you that in most cases this would not actually be self-defense.



I don't think I ever even saw a fight the whole time I was in college. I'm not discounting your experience, but I am saying it's far from universal.



If someone takes 25 seconds to pass out, then the blood flow and oxygen to their brain were not fully obstructed the whole time.



While I agree, I dislike the saying because it promotes the idea that those are likely to be your only two choices. This is rarely the case.



I have actually choked someone unconscious who had no idea he was being choked. Afterwards he told me that if it happened again he still wouldn't have tapped because he felt in absolutely no danger.

Of course, that's only happened once out of all the countless times I've choked people, so it's not exactly a common occurrence.

Blood flow doesnt need to be completely cut off to cause damage via ischemic stroke, only obstructed.

Cutting off the blood supply to the brain. Vascular biology Brain vessels squeezed to death Nature Nature Publishing Group

Ischemic Strokes Clots

Now Im sure DD can chime in more, but whether bloked by plaque or by pinching the blood vessel shut, its still obstructed I believe.

Not to mention theres a decent chance of knocking the plaque loose and them having a stroke after you even let go.

So in this case, holding that person until you expect them to go limp could very well have serious repurcussions

 

[ballen0351]

Again, absolute nonsense. There are millions of people around the world learning, applying, and getting chokes place on them. There are people who forget to tap and pass out from the choke. There are schools who purposely tell their students not to tap out so that they can get choked out on purpose and understand their limitations. And yes, people slip a few seconds, it happens.

This practice has gone on for over a century, and I honestly can't think of a single practicioner that has suffered brain damage or death, and if it has occurred the numbers are incredibly small. Your statement above simply does not line up with the facts.



So are you saying that a stomp to the skull is as "safe" as a choke or even a dislocation of a joint?

The second you start strangling someone in this state your committing a felony 1st deg assault if not attempted murder. We go so far as finding alternative light sources to photograph marks not visible to the eye. That has been a huge push here in the last 2 years.The victim doesn't need to pass out or even be injured the courts have decided that act of strangulation shows intent to kill or serious bodily harm.

 

[ballen0351]

I did nothing to get into fights in college except to be there. As for college being a zoo, this is why. College is full of guys in their late teens/early twenties who experience all this new found freedom and will sometimes, actually quite often, go quite wild. Also there is often booze and drugs at college. All too often, being turned loose the way they are, some people don't handle it responsibly and bullying takes on a whole new level, more so than in high school or before.

I was in the USMC infantry which is everything you stated times 10 and well every fight Igot into was of my own choice and I could have easily avoided it had I wanted too.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Considering the situation discussed earlier about being slapped, if some guy tried to slap me I would do what the Bible says and turn the other cheek. If he tried something else such as if he tried to punch me or if he charged at me I would take proper action to neutralize him. To just stand there and let him do it flies in the face of common sense.

 

[Hanzou]

The second you start strangling someone in this state your committing a felony 1st deg assault if not attempted murder. We go so far as finding alternative light sources to photograph marks not visible to the eye. That has been a huge push here in the last 2 years.The victim doesn't need to pass out or even be injured the courts have decided that act of strangulation shows intent to kill or serious bodily harm.

What if that person is a woman performing a triangle choke to defend herself from getting raped? Is that still considered a felony 1st degree assault?

 

[ballen0351]

What if that person is a woman performing a triangle choke to defend herself from getting raped? Is that still considered a felony 1st degree assault?

If she's still actively defending her life then no deadly force is acceptable defense to stop a rape. But you and some other dude get Into a fight and you are able to us a triangle on him then You better be able to show why your life was in serious danger ( like he had a knife or weapon or he was beating your brains in or there were multiple attackers ) if you do it because you can well your going to need a good lawyer.

I can't use a choke hold period at work it's against out general orders and if I were to use it I better have a deadly force reason why or I'd be in big trouble. Some guy just resisting or trying to fight me wouldn't be a valid reason

 

[drop bear]

Again, being rendered unconscious can screw with your memory of events.

For that matter, I've dropped people with strikes they didn't remember being hit with.

By some peoples logic, I guess those were "gentle" strikes, and perfectly safe.

Different process to being knocked out.

 

[drop bear]

So people had different experiences of college.

And anecdotal evidence does not define a trend.

 

[Hanzou]

If she's still actively defending her life then no deadly force is acceptable defense to stop a rape. But you and some other dude get Into a fight and you are able to us a triangle on him then You better be able to show why your life was in serious danger ( like he had a knife or weapon or he was beating your brains in or there were multiple attackers ) if you do it because you can well your going to need a good lawyer.

I can't use a choke hold period at work it's against out general orders and if I were to use it I better have a deadly force reason why or I'd be in big trouble. Some guy just resisting or trying to fight me wouldn't be a valid reason

So if some guy tackles me in a parking lot, and starts trying to turn my face into hamburger, but instead I'm able to choke him out with a triangle or whatever from my back with him on top of me, I'm in the clear right?

 

[K-man]

Not if it was being talked about before I entered the thread.

The thread for your information, was about not telling anyone that you are a martial artist. Chokes were mentioned in passing and you took it from there.

The people who previously argued that choking could cause brain damage in a matter of seconds. I would further argue that punching or kicking a downed target in the head is far more likely to cause brain damage or death than a choke would.

There was ONE person saying something like that and enough people have commented that the topic is now more than covered.

Well first off its Kakato geri, not Kakuto geri. Thanks for helping me misspell it.

Secondly, Kakato geri looks like this;

Which seems to be a rather superfluous motion to hit a downed opponent in the head.

So axe kick can only be performed at what height? Bearing in mind that 'kakato' translates as downward heel even you might understand you can circle the leg and drive the heel down to a lower target but thanks for the lesson.

Fumikomi looks like this;

Well to be honest, and I admit that my knowledge of all things karate is way below yours, the picture looks like what I would call kansetsu geri. We call it 'knee joint kick' in English. Sokuto geri is a higher version of the same kick which we would call 'side kick'. Kekomi geri is a thrusting version of the same, which leaves us Fumikomi, a thrusting heel kick which we train to the front unlike all the previous which are to the side or at least a 45 deg angle in the case of kansetsu geri. Kakato geri is a downward heel strike and we train it by lifting the foot up and across then down in a stomping motion, like an axe kick if you lifted the leg and dropped it down to strike a target 10 inches off the floor.

Which is more akin to the stomps I saw those Krav guys doing. I don't know where you get the idea that one is a variation of another. The two are quite different from each other in about every respect.

Only to the untrained eye.

It appears to be the go-to finisher for Krav and similar arts. I never said that its the only thing you do, but it is a pretty clear characteristic of such styles. In every Krav vid I posted, the demonstrator finished with a stomping kick or punch to the head area. I'm sure if I bothered to look, I'd find far more. In the absence of chokes, such moves make sense. Again, I'm simply pointing out that a kick or punch to the head against someone who is laying on the ground can have lethal consequences. Far more lethal than someone passing out from a choke.

And has anyone ever claimed otherwise? As I have said time after time. If the force is proportionate you have nothing to fear. If it is excessive you will have to justify your action in court.

And what exactly are you saying? That you only perform these techniques when necessary? Okay, where was I disputing that?

Mainly all the way through this and in previous threads. I remember you saying, "we fight as we train. If you train it that way you will do it that way". Quite clear cut. No one can vary their action, it's all locked in on auto pilot regardless of the situation ... not!

So agreeing with what I stated is "countering" me? That's an interesting way of looking at it.

I haven't agreed with anything you have said. Your twisting the meaning ensured that. Your lack of comprehension causes the same problem in every thread you disrupt.

BTW, Bludgeoning is simply beating something. And yes, you can bludgeon something with your fists and feet. Those are weapons too you know.

Funny, I always thought of bludgeon as a club, but then English is my first language.

noun
1.
a short, heavy club with one end weighted, or thicker and heavier than the other.
Bludgeon Define Bludgeon at Dictionary.com

So bludgeoning someone if you don't have a blunt instrument in your hand is really a metaphor similar to 'hammering' someone if you don't have a hammer. Not something you would use if you are accurately describing a martial art technique.