Does your art break? Why or Why Not?

[tshadowchaser]

My art breaks but I no longer see the use in it accept to instill confidence in new students

 

[Gemini]

I've never really agreed with the saying "boards don't hit back" because, quick frankly, neither does a person if you hit 'em right. Breaking is to gauge effective striking power, not to fight helpless little boards. So I ask, how do you gauge your effective striking power other than a board? Why is the use of a board such an issue?

As far as being "gullable or ignorant", I'm neither. I do however, enjoy watching people show their physical capabilities, whether it demonstrates true fighting capabilities or not.

 

[Shaolinwind]

I've never really agreed with the saying "boards don't hit back" because, quick frankly, neither does a person if you hit 'em right. Breaking is to gauge effective striking power, not to fight helpless little boards. So I ask, how do you gauge your effective striking power other than a board? .

I think it takes about as much striking power to break a board as it does one of the floating ribs.

 

[Eric Daniel]

Does your art break? Why or Why Not?

Vote in the poll above and explain how practicioners of your art view this.

No, my art does not do braking but my sensei tells us about it. I have heard him say that when someone brakes a board, brick or anything they use mental techniques such as "go through the board" and not stop on contact. I am not sure why he talks about it but never has us do it. Maybe it's because of what Bruce Lee said "Board does not hit back" or maybe not but he has his reasons.

 

[TigerWoman]

Taekwondoins, generally are breakers. After all its a kicking art but we do hand, elbow, headbutt too. In fact, one of my cohorts does a nasty chin break which isn't always successful yet he keeps trying at tournaments. Breaking, as Nick says takes correct technique, focus, follow-through and strength. Yes, strength, as a 140 lb. woman can't compete with a 185 lb. man breaking concrete. I haven't found any woman yet who has the jumping capabilities for some of the spectacular breaks yet either, like double-triple flying sidekick.

You also come to KNOW what you can do, what is possible and how to get there. There are other threads on this in the TKD section under "breaking". I wouldn't of advanced from white belt had I not done a step sidekick at a demo--1st break that I had done. I can coach anyone, practically, into doing a palm strike on one board. One gentlemen was in a wheelchair at the fair. He was just determined, that's all. From there, that level-white belt, a palm or a step side kick, your strength, technique gets better and the difficulty of the breaks increase too. I like the steps of learning we do in Taekwondo. I like the trials, real trials to learn technique correctly with the perseverance that it takes when you fail over and over and hurt over and over too. But in the failing, you build and train your muscles to respond and getting there, doing the actual break is priceless. It just takes education of the correct technique, determination to practice, perseverance when you fail. Oh and good knees for the jumping ones. sigh! Everyone should try it. How do you know how much damage you can actually inflict--aside from putting someone in the hospital? Boards and bricks are the closest we can find. Oh, and apples too. We have one guy who does a triple spin heel to three apples-3 spins-makes applesauce. One young-20's man likes to rebound off the wall and does all kinds of spin jumps with that. We do this so we can find out what we can do--and the possibilities seem to be endless. Just don't get old. TW

 

[Lisa]

Not much breaking in grappling. At least not anthing intentional.

 

[Henderson]

Boards, blocks, etc. never did anything to me. Why should I hit them? :idunno:

 

[bignick]

Boards, blocks, etc. never did anything to me. Why should I hit them? :idunno:

Again, how else are they gonna break?

 

[SenseiBear]

Yes, most of our practitioners break. Boards (1x stock for beginners, 2x stock and no-spacer multiples later), bricks, concrete blocks, and river rocks. Usually with the hands, though there are some that practice with feet or heads (except river rocks...)

I find it very valuable, but don't require it in my students beyond basic single boards and bricks. (if you don't think they "hit" back, you haven't seen someone fracture their hand or wrist on an improper break... or full contact strike against an opponent, for that matter)

I have rarely come across someone not physically capable of the basic breaks, but they are often not mentally capable - which is one of the biggest points. Training the mind to control the body, and not letting the subconscious mind prevent you from accomplishing your goals. At the basic level breaks, it isn't the board/brick that keeps you from breaking it, it is you... And if you can't bring yourself to hit a harmless piece of wood hard, what about that angry aggressive bad guy, who IS trying to harm you?

-SB

 

[bcbernam777]

When I was doing Shotokan yes, now I do Wing Chun no. I know that the ability to break the boards is due to the mental cpacity the ability to mentally see your tool on the other side. For now i dont see the need.

 

[Grenadier]

It seems that the above replies, including my own, were about empty hand martial arts. Some will point out that breaking with empty hand (or foot) techniques teaches you the value of making a committed attack, and can also be a painful lesson to those that perform half-hearted attacks. Others will say that there's nothing that board breaking can teach that can't be learned on a stationary heavy bag.

I still say that it's entirely up to the school to decide what they want to do, regarding breaking, and stick to their guns.

When it comes to sword instruction, though, I do like to get the responsible students (that have handled live blades in kata) involved with "breaking" techniques. In this case, though, "tameshigiri" would be a better term, since I'm always finding nice targets for cutting drills at the local "Big Lots" store. It's amazing what you can get there; large diameter styrofoam "pool noodles" or straw beach mats for a buck each.

One important part of the tameshigiri drills is that it teaches the students that the katana isn't meant for hard bashing, and that the proper techniques must be used to get a clean cut. Failure to perform a good technique either means that the target stand gets knocked over, or a cut does not make it all the way through. Each student is responsible for his own sword, and that sword must be a decent sword, not some stainless steel (insert derogatory terms here).

Seeing the look of joy on the face of someone who just cut his first straw mat is priceless, and some of other students say that I'm creating monsters here, addicted to the joys of cutting. Of that, I freely admit guilt...

 

[Sam]

And if you can't bring yourself to hit a harmless piece of wood hard, what about that angry aggressive bad guy, who IS trying to harm you?

I think its more of seeing it as an exercise in futility rather than being 'unable' to bring yourself to break some wooden block.

 

[clfsean]

Nah... what's the point?

If you want to check your technique & focus... go fight san da or MMA. If you loose after your first punch doesn't immediately incapacitate the opponent... welcome to the real world. Go back & work your basics so you can defend yourself & not sweat being assaulted by building materials.

If you do incapacitate your opponent on your first punch, try it again on the next opponent & see if your technique is really that good & not just dumb luck scored on the first one.

But for the record, I've done wood, concrete, cement & brick in the past.

 

[TigerWoman]

I think its more of seeing it as an exercise in futility rather than being 'unable' to bring yourself to break some wooden block.

This is exactly the mindset that won't break...ever.

I was teaching two women that were beginning TKD and were excellent at sparring and could hit the bags pretty well. I showed them how to do palm strike on a rebreakable yellow board progressing to a blue board which is close to a real board 12 x 10 x 1". Then they broke the pine boards and they were ecstatic. They had to save them to show their co-workers. A few weeks later, there was another woman who wanted to practice for her yellow test. Two women broke doing a step sidekick, then the last quit on the third try. She was having problems with focus/aim, and using the heel. She defeated herself. Futile? Hardly. She said her foot wasn't hurting. I hope she returns as she was in a community ed program and trys again. It was her mind stopping her. Fear.

For my 2nd dan, I was required to do a jumpback kick-2, then land on my really bad knee so I could do an immediate jumpspin heel-1 held with 2 fingers-a speed break. Well, I practiced for that break for a year and after my test, went through 200 boards just to get to that top board. I cracked the top board three times but not cracked APART. I stopped because the wear and tear jumping on my bad knee at age 54 was too much. I was finally given the option to do a tornado round kick on two boards held with 2 fingers. It was a potentially very painful break contacting the top of the foot.

In TKD, we get past the pain, the fear. Aside from breaking concrete, I have never seen anyone get injured (bones-torn ligaments) from a board break. We teach a progression of breaks as we train and condition our body and mind. The mind part...it does take practice, perseverance and indomitable spirit. We slowly gain confidence as we master the breaks. The breaks I have done and mostly the progression: (foot) step side, hop side, round, front, spin side, spin heel, hook, jump high front, axe-3, jump round, jump spin heel, jump back-2, jump spin heel-2 finger hold, 360 jump back-2, flying side-3, ground sweep speed break-board on floor on edge, chambered side-2, dropped from high- spin heel-speed break, and then the hand and other technique: progression up to palm 3 & speed break-1, palm-concrete, knife-speed break-holding the board & concrete, ridge hand, head butt, and elbow/forearm-3. I probably left out some. I did alot of new ones at tournaments-practicing for and trying them there. Alot of the competitors make it look easy. You see my progression, and after 8+ years in, its alot of work. But thats it.

It is easy to quip that the board doesn't strike back. If you haven't experienced it, actually had a hard strike/contact fight and know your foot or hand went home, how would you know? In TKD, we break so much that we know our technique, strength, and what is in our toolbox. TW

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

In case there is any confusion, the term "break", means to physically break materials with strikes. These materials could include wood, bricks, blocks, ice, etc...

As a secondary question, if your art breaks, please list some things that you break and give a few examples of the techniques used to break them.

Does bones count? Oh, I know, how about faces?

 

[FearlessFreep]

One thing I realized in the few times I've broken is the difference in focused power. I mean, to me, I sidekick was this big moving push of thrusting into your opponent. When I tried to break boards with a sidekick, I realized that I really needed to focus more so the penetrating snap came at the end so I broke the board and not just shoved it away

 

[jdinca]

Never really seen the purpose in it. Reminds me of a story about a well known breaker showing how he "prepared" his cinder blocks by tapping them lightly with a hammer until the tone changed. That indicated the tensile strength of the block had been compromised and it was therefore much easier to break.

 

[bignick]

Never really seen the purpose in it. Reminds me of a story about a well known breaker showing how he "prepared" his cinder blocks by tapping them lightly with a hammer until the tone changed. That indicated the tensile strength of the block had been compromised and it was therefore much easier to break.

And he should feel no sense of accomplishment whatsoever...just like anything else, if you cheat breaking teaches you nothing...

 

[Makalakumu]

In Tang Soo Do, we break lots of wood and bricks. Some of the more difficult breaks that I have done are the four bricks no spacers for 3rd dan and the jumping split front kick with two boards on each side no spacers. A break that I am currently working on is a three station break, two kicks with two boards on each and one hand with one board all in the air. I'm not sure how I'm going to do it yet.

At tests, breaking takes on a special significance for the Tangsoodoin. We do it at the very end. The symbolism behind it is that we are breaking our way into our new rank. Also, performing the breaks at the end of the test makes them even more difficult. It really takes a lot of focus and drive in order to get it done.

Despite all of this, I have a small ethical problem with breaking. I don't like to waste all of that good wood. My grandfather was a carpenter and he thinks that the waste is kind of shameful.

 

[Gemini]

Despite all of this, I have a small ethical problem with breaking. I don't like to waste all of that good wood. My grandfather was a carpenter and he thinks that the waste is kind of shameful.

It's funny you would think of it that way. After all, isn't it a sacrifice to achieve a (assumed) greater purpose? If not, why then would you do it?

To your point though, at our school, my subumnim thinks along the same lines. If you do a multi board break and fail, meaning you have to do the whole thing over again because you failed to break all the boards due to lack of focus, he hammers you for the unnecessary waste of a precious resource. Teaches people focus in a hurry.