Do you think sparring is essential to learning how to defend yourself?

[Jenna]

Most if not all martial arts practice some form of sparring, but some systems of schools will not. For example, in self defense minded systems, sparring may be forgotten entirely in favor of running simulated self defense situations. That, and not all sparring is the same. For example in some ( I won't speak for all ) wing chun or FMA schools, the sparring is a very different affair than in Karate, muay thai, TKD, JKD, bjj etc etc.

Do you think sparring in it's traditional sense ( freely trading, parrying, and blocking blows ) is needed in martial arts?

I would appreciate your opinions.

Sparring or randori opens your static technique to a more realistic defensive environment. Is sparring essential for defending yourself? No. You can defend yourself with the techniques you have been shown. However, you are also relying upon an opponent in a defensive situation exactly replicating the actions of your uke. In reality this rarely happens. What is essential is learning how to adapt your techniques to fit a whole variety of defensive situations. You can do this with yourself or with a training partner. However, the most efficient way to open out your technique to the reality of a defensive environment is through randori or free sparring.

As I see it, the technique is the theory. In self defence, randori is where the rubber meets the road.

 

[Cyriacus]

We do it, and it only helps. So Yes, it is essential.

Id like to addend this answer of mine, with;

It largely comes down to the Sparring Method. Sport Sparring is generally not as effective for Self Defense, but it does help. Unscored Sparring with as few rules as You can manage tends to work out, as well as Scenario based Semi-Sparring.

 

[karatekid13]

I believe that sparring REALLY helps (if you are training for self-defense). For example, at my school we do semi-contact with a target area. we wear gear, but we hit fairly hard. (i sparred friday night and got kicked in the hip... owwww ) for example, if you hit someone in the solar plexus and they throw up, that's legal-- you wouldn't be told you were hitting too hard. My teacher always says that if you don't get hit at all, then you get hit in a SD situation, you will probably be way more scared. we also do self-defense drills (takedowns, throws, wristlocks, arm bars, headlocks, ankle locks, falls, rolls...) on actual people

-catie

 

[MJS]

Okay, so just a question. based on what many of you have said, would you say that MMA or other sports that allow sanctioned fights are best for teaching self defense in a fist fight? You are after all truly hitting and grappling etc etc.

I would say that MMA would work, sure, but of course, boxing would also be good, as well as some other stand up arts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The martial arts are fighting arts. I do not think there are many people who are purely, 100% taking a MA class as nothing more than zoomba with a belt. So for the VAST majority of students, there is at least some degree of self defense training involved.
Patterns, 1-, 2-, 3-steps, and such are fine, and educational, but they're not fighting. Sparring is not fighting either, but it's one step closer. It may even be several steps closer, depending on the ruleset employed.
I do not think it is possible to learn to fight if you don't fight (or at least do something close to fighting).
And I am absoltutely sure that if you've never been hit, you're going to fold up like a used kleenex the first time you do.

I saw a young woman in the ER last week who cut her finger while slicing cheese. It was a horrible cut, which required a massive, complex closure with a total of 3 stitches.

The week before, I saw a young man with a paronychia. That's an abcess along the edge of the nail. Basically a bad hangnail. He also insisted that his pain was 10/10. Wanted to know if I was going to "put [him] under" for the major surgery (sticking a needle in it) required to drain it (no). Then wanted to know if he was going to get a prescription for pain meds (no).

About a year ago, we had a teen join our program. He was very enthusiastic, practiced his forms and techniques at home, had good reflexes and was progressing nicely. The problem arose when he started sparring. He had no concept of control, which is something we really stress, especially at lower ranks. After a few complaints, I sparred with him. Once. I let him know in advance that however had he hit, I was going to hit. I commented on the power of his kicks three times and asked if he was sure he wanted to spar with so much force. Then I kicked him. Once. He dropped. To his credit, he did get back up and was willing to continue the match. But suddenly his control got much better.

We had a conversation after class, and, basically, he'd never been hit before. Ever. It had never really sunk in that being kicked can actually hurt.

Unless you're completely abandoning any and all self defense aspects of your art, then I believe that sparring, with at least a moderate degree of contact (and heavy contact is no doubt better, when appropriate), is absolutely required for effective training.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The martial arts are fighting arts. I do not think there are many people who are purely, 100% taking a MA class as nothing more than zoomba with a belt. So for the VAST majority of students, there is at least some degree of self defense training involved.
Patterns, 1-, 2-, 3-steps, and such are fine, and educational, but they're not fighting. Sparring is not fighting either, but it's one step closer. It may even be several steps closer, depending on the ruleset employed.
I do not think it is possible to learn to fight if you don't fight (or at least do something close to fighting).
And I am absoltutely sure that if you've never been hit, you're going to fold up like a used kleenex the first time you do.

I saw a young woman in the ER last week who cut her finger while slicing cheese. It was a horrible cut, which required a massive, complex closure with a total of 3 stitches.

The week before, I saw a young man with a paronychia. That's an abcess along the edge of the nail. Basically a bad hangnail. He also insisted that his pain was 10/10. Wanted to know if I was going to "put [him] under" for the major surgery (sticking a needle in it) required to drain it (no). Then wanted to know if he was going to get a prescription for pain meds (no).

About a year ago, we had a teen join our program. He was very enthusiastic, practiced his forms and techniques at home, had good reflexes and was progressing nicely. The problem arose when he started sparring. He had no concept of control, which is something we really stress, especially at lower ranks. After a few complaints, I sparred with him. Once. I let him know in advance that however had he hit, I was going to hit. I commented on the power of his kicks three times and asked if he was sure he wanted to spar with so much force. Then I kicked him. Once. He dropped. To his credit, he did get back up and was willing to continue the match. But suddenly his control got much better.

We had a conversation after class, and, basically, he'd never been hit before. Ever. It had never really sunk in that being kicked can actually hurt.

Unless you're completely abandoning any and all self defense aspects of your art, then I believe that sparring, with at least a moderate degree of contact (and heavy contact is no doubt better, when appropriate), is absolutely required for effective training.

Fantastic! That's a great response, agree 100%

Just as a point of reference, purely anecdotal, but for fun...

When I was a child, my dad broke his little finger diving for a frisbee. It stuck out sideways to his hand. He bent it straight, taped it to his ring finger and that was that. I don't think he even said "Ow." He cut off all the small toes on one foot with a lawnmower. He came in the house with his toes hanging by threads and tendons, told my mom to call the ambulance, and then passed out. When the ambulance arrived, he would not let them turn on the siren or speed; he said they were just toes and not worth dying on the way to the hospital for. They sewed them back on and he went to work the next day.

I was just reading a book on John Wilkes Booth. At one point prior to his turning traitor, he went to the doctor because he had a growth on the side of his neck; the doctor declared it was a tumor and needed to be cut out. He insisted the doctor do it right then and there, no hospital, no anesthetic of any kind. Just cut it off. The doctor did. Two witnesses passed out, and Booth finally lost consciousness too; without uttering a sound.

When we spar in the dojo or just do hard-hitting self-defense exercises, I often say 'ow' or grimace when hit hard. Sometimes my partners apologize and ask if they should hit less hard, but it's not that it hurts; my response is a learned response that I can't seem to turn off, even though I'd like to, because it is embarrassing. I can take the pain and the hit, but I can't seem to stop myself from making noise about it. Oh well.

But yeah, the only thing like fighting is fighting. You can read about learning to ride a bike but that's not the same. You can watch other people do it, but that still doesn't help. You can have a coach and training wheels, but still that is not like the real experience. The only thing that can teach you to ride a bike is to ride one. There is no substitute for experience.

 

[Kenlee25]

I like to believe I have a high pain tolerance.

Aside from sparring in class, There was the instance where I was hit in the face with the plastic bat ( thank god it wasn't actual wood or I may have died ) and busted up my nose...or the time in Gym class a friend of mine came up to me and literally just jabbed me in the face for no reason. Or the time I was practicing a kick without shoes on in the house and sliced open my foot ( I didn't scream or yell, I walked around the house trying to "work the pain off" until my mother asked me why there was a pool of blood on the floor ) and not to mention the time I broke my hand.

I've only been in one fight though, and at the time i was so much better than the other kid he didn't even hit me. But I have "fought" against my MMA friend. After school one day we decided to just have a go at it. The rules were basically MMA rules with everything legal ( including ground fighting, sweeps etc ) except use palm strikes instead of punches to the face....I think that was the first time I felt adrenaline and surprisingly even when he hit me pretty hard in the body or nearly took my head off with a kick, or smacked me around in the face, I didn't feel it to badly.

I'm not saying that simulated a real fight, but it was a major step up from sparring in class.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Most if not all martial arts practice some form of sparring, but some systems of schools will not. For example, in self defense minded systems, sparring may be forgotten entirely in favor of running simulated self defense situations. That, and not all sparring is the same. For example in some ( I won't speak for all ) wing chun or FMA schools, the sparring is a very different affair than in Karate, muay thai, TKD, JKD, bjj etc etc.

Do you think sparring in it's traditional sense ( freely trading, parrying, and blocking blows ) is needed in martial arts?

I would appreciate your opinions.

If you view self defense purely on a 'you vs. an attacker' and 'only train for real violence,' then no, sparring in the traditional sense is largely inapplicable and some argue that it places constraints upon you that might actually 'get you killed (wait for it) on the street.'

I disagree with that line of reasoning, by the way.

Traditional sparring is meant to teach a number of things that can be applied both in and out of competion, helps you to overcome the fear that you might get hit; your going to get hit, and when you do, you find that you're not obliterated. Most importantly, sparring cultivates a vigorous spirit.

You may say, 'yeah, well so what?' A person with a strong or vigorous spirit carries themselves differently that someone with week spirit. Having a vigorous or strong spirit sends subconcious messages to potential attackers that you are not weak. That, combined with use of good judgement and habits will eliminate probablly 99% of your potential SD issues.

Doesn't mean that you'll be invisible to attackers or that you have a teflon skin that allows you to slide through any potential problems without harm. It does mean, however, that your risks are minimized and that if push comes to shove, you've both spent time with resisting opponents and are likely in better condition should the need for physical solutions arise.

 

[Big Don]

when it comes to self defense, if you aint hitting, you aint learning

Sparring isn't about learning to throw a punch and a kick, it is about learning to TAKE a punch and a kick. If you don't spar, and one day get punched in the face, you might not react well. If, you spar all the time, and get popped, your reaction will be a lot better...

 

[Chris Parker]

Right. Dissenting opinion time, I think.

Sparring is not necessary for self defence. It can help, in limited ways, but largely is a false approximation that leads to false expectations and false understandings. In short, for self defence, sparring is never part of my regime.

Before I get to the reasons and reasoning behind this comment, some definitions as I'm applying them to my construct here.

Sparring = a training device whereby two practitioners of the same art test their technique against each other with both sides attacking and defending (looking for attacks from their opponents) in a protracted engagement, keeping to defined or undefined restrictions or rules. Trading blows, whether competitive or not. Important note: training methods such as Aikido randori (as opposed to Judo randori) is not considered sparring due to only one defending side and one attacking side.

Self Defence = the application of knowledge, awareness, evasion, de-escalation, and physical fighting methods with the aim of safe escape for yourself and any with you from one or more aggressor without defined parameters, restrictions, or rules other than legalities enforced by the circumstances and political/geographic area you are presently in.

Scenario training = a free training method whereby an attempt is made to have as close an approximation of reality as possible, with one or more aggressors and one or more defenders (sometimes one defender needs to guard, or protect the other). This simulation takes into account all aspects of the aforementioned self defence parameters, including allowing for simple escape, de-escalation, and so on.

Right, reasons.

Basically, sparring is unrealistic. It's a game. It's a fun game, and it's a game with a lot of benefits, but none of them are "this is geared towards self defence". Let's look at them side by side.

Sparring involves two people of similar skill-sets (typically of the same school/organisation/art), where both practitioners approximate skill set is a known quantity (a judoka hardly has to be prepared for a jab/cross combination... or a knife... or the friend of the guy you're fighting with grabbing you from behind while you're arguing with the first guy). A real encounter (self defence) is an unknown quantity. You don't know what the skill sets you're dealing with are, and the chances of them being the same as yours are rather remote. Scenario training takes into account unknown skill sets, changing situations (others getting involved, weapons being pulled halfway through the encounter, surprise attacks, and so on), ensuring you are training against the same.

The downside for sparring there is that it is training you to look for and expect certain attacks (thigh kicks, roundhouses, particular methods of punching, trained actions and responses etc) that simply aren't going to be encountered in a self defence situation.

Sparring is a continuous endeavour, with both practitioners engaging until either the time is called, or indefinitely in many training cases, unable to disengage and escape. A self defence encounter has escape and disengagement as a primary goal, seeking to remove yourself from danger, rather than staying and potentially placing yourself in danger for longer than is necessary. Scenario training again is geared up around this ideal, often with "escape the situation" being the requisite for success, rather than getting a knockdown or knockout.

The downside for sparring there is that the option for escape, common sense though it may be, will not have been trained, and therefore likely will not be utilised should the opportunity present itself, as there is no "template" for that tactic within the fighting toolbox of the practitioner.

Sparring is engaged within obvious or undefined restrictions or rules. It's not ever really "no rules", as there are established methods of attack and defence that are applied by both participants (both using similar kicks, strikes, movements etc), or an established weapon set, or range (grappling, striking, weapon for Kendo or some FMA systems, and so on), as well as assumed rules (no strikes to the groin, no targeting the knees etc). A real self defence encounter doesn't have any of that at all. There aren't really any restrictions on kicking the groin or knees, there is no single established range or set of attacking methods (on either side). Similarly, scenario training is geared towards understanding the common attacking methods, and going against those, rather than a trained, stylized action.

The downside for sparring here is that a false expectation is established, which can lead to a form of blindness to safe, reliable tactics when required.

Sparring deals with two attacking and defending sides simultaneously, which means that at all times both sides are both looking for openings, and looking for the attacks of their opponent. This changes the way they fight, as there is more risked by attacking, due to the fact that the opponent is expecting it (note: when I say there is more risked, that is a comment on the perception of risk, in this case, having your attack defeated and made null and void). Self defence encounters typically have one side attacking (which could be multiple attackers) and one side being attacked. Note I didn't say "defending", as that is not really the case, at least in the way the attackers see it. The person/people being attacked are exactly that, being attacked, and they can then respond in certain ways, which may be defensive in nature, but not necessarily. Scenario training mimics exactly that, with one side being the aggressor, and the other being attacked (in some form). This enables a more realistic analogue of an actual self defence encounter, as well as opening up to any appropriate response.

The downside for sparring here is that, well, it's nothing like a real self defence encounter.

Honestly, there's a lot more that can be said to highlight the differences between sparring and self defence, but the simple detail remains that claiming it's realistic isn't correct, mainly as it's not supposed to be. Sparring is designed for a range of benefits, but realism isn't one of them. It's designed to toughen you mentally and physically, it's designed to give you a way to test reflexes and match yourself up against similar training partners in a safe manner, it's designed to improve cardio and endurance, it helps with timing, targeting, movement, and a lot more, but it's not designed to be, and isn't, a realistic method of training for self defence. Scenario training, on the other hand, is designed to be as realistic as it can be.

Now, with all that said, what is required is a form of free-responce training, realistic responses in your training partners (which, believe it or not, isn't really "resistance", as that, again, is not realistic in many ways), contact, drilling, and pressure testing. But none of that needs to be, or even should be sparring if self defence is the reason you're training.

 

[Twin Fist]

chris,
i disagree

you HAVE to learn how to take a hit, or you will shut down when you DO get hit, and you WILL get hit.

now, it needs to be as realistic a drill as possible while being safe, but you cant train without contact, IMO

 

[Chris Parker]

chris,
i disagree

you HAVE to learn how to take a hit, or you will shut down when you DO get hit, and you WILL get hit.

now, it needs to be as realistic a drill as possible while being safe, but you cant train without contact, IMO

You might want to re-read my last paragraph, then, John...

Now, with all that said, what is required is a form of free-responce training, realistic responses in your training partners (which, believe it or not, isn't really "resistance", as that, again, is not realistic in many ways), contact, drilling, and pressure testing. But none of that needs to be, or even should be sparring if self defence is the reason you're training.

 

[Twin Fist]

what is a better way to develope pain tolerance and expose the student to contact OTHER than sparring?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

what is a better way to develope pain tolerance and expose the student to contact OTHER than sparring?

Guantanamo Bay could offer many effective alternatives fo sparring for development of pain tollerance.

 

[Instructor]

I am in favor of sparring and contact. It has it's uses. It's not the end all be all but it should be a part of training.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face."

Mike Tyson

 

[chinto]

OK, My two cents worth... um you may want your money back after :uhyeah:.

Is sparring required for learning Self Defense? NO, is it a tool that may help you a lot to get better? Depending again on HOW IT IS DONE, Yes It is a tool in the tool box that may help a great deal. But again depends on how it is actually done. you will not do business in a real fight like a point sparring match! so some sparring things like stopping after a point and things.. not so good a lesson for SD. it will help you a lot with distancing and movement that kata teaches.

Necessary to SD? Nope, Helpful if Done in the Right way? Yes it can be a good tool among many, but it is NOT the end all that some would say it is.

 

[Instructor]

OK, My two cents worth... um you may want your money back after :uhyeah:.

Is sparring required for learning Self Defense? NO, is it a tool that may help you a lot to get better? Depending again on HOW IT IS DONE, Yes It is a tool in the tool box that may help a great deal. But again depends on how it is actually done. you will not do business in a real fight like a point sparring match! so some sparring things like stopping after a point and things.. not so good a lesson for SD. it will help you a lot with distancing and movement that kata teaches.

Necessary to SD? Nope, Helpful if Done in the Right way? Yes it can be a good tool among many, but it is NOT the end all that some would say it is.

You said it better than I did chinto.

 

[chinto]

thanks! I didnt see your post, sorry but I bet its as good as mine. :drinkbeer

 

[Buka]

And, believe it or not, you need water to learn how to swim.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

And, believe it or not, you need water to learn how to swim.

Sure. But if self defense is analogous to swimming, is sparring analogous to water?