Collision or impulse

[Same Trick48]

Interesting discussions.

For those who have actually trained Taiji, or interacted directly with someone who has:

Was there anything you found to be genuinely unique to it—
in method, feeling, or the way force was used?

With my two TJQ teachers(Yang TJQ and Hunyuan TJQ) we do push hands no striking/punching but with use of “leg skills” , the kind of stuff KungFu Wang on here often highlighting. This sort of leg skill i had no experience of before I met my Taiji teachers, so this was quite unique thing for me at the time.

Once I was demonstrated on a “Taiji-punch” the teacher punching is a well known(in Beijing) Chen-Taiji teacher.
The punch executed at only about an inch distance and kind of just stopped at the touch of my upper stomach, I noticed it had a 1-2 touch, as if vibration, my stomach felt no pain or discomfort but the opposite side of my body my spine/back felt a nasty pain and it hung on for about a week.
But the thing with this - both I and the teacher stood stationary, it was a set situation, “success” with such a strike while target moving would be very difficult if not impossible.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

For those who have actually trained Taiji, or interacted directly with someone who has:

Was there anything you found to be genuinely unique to it—
in method, feeling, or the way force was used?

If we use Taiji

- "brush knee twist step", Taiji use "body chase arm" approach instead of "body push arm" approach. Your finger tips touch on your opponent's chest first. You then drop your palm, your body weight then add in.
- "left/right striking tiger", Taiji hook punch is no different from the boxing hook punch.

Is the "body chase arm" approach unique in Taiji? I believe it also exist in the Xing Yi system as well.

 

[Same Trick48]

The thread isn’t about Taiji striking specifically.
The question was about “whole-body power” — how it’s expressed, how it’s generated, and whether the term means the same thing across different arts.

Some people brought up long-arm methods, which I’m familiar with and trained extensively in my younger years. They’re useful as a contrast because long-arm expresses force through a very different strategy and shape.

It’s not something I can use anymore — my current practice changed the internal organization to the point where those old mechanics no longer function naturally.

In this context:
I don’t view Taiji as being defined by striking, kicking, or grappling.


Its defining characteristic is a specific type of force that comes from a different way of organizing the body — that internal organization determines the shapes, tactics, and strategies available.

This is why, across different styles and lineages, the demos, movements, and applications tend to look and feel similar when someone is using the same internal method. The outward forms may differ, but the underlying engine — the way force is produced, organized, and managed — ends up expressing itself in a recognizable way.

taiji method expressed by a noted teacher

My Yang Taiji teacher is highly skilled in tongbeiquan, early on he insisted I also train in tongbeiquan since he thought I have ..long arms, he insisted that TJQ with TBQ share fundamentals, I found it to be so.

TBQ practice consist of large arm movements(long arm), however a thing with this is very much so to develop whole body coordination/connection making “short arm “ techniques uncanny strong and sharp

 

[windwalker099102]

I did not give an opinion. I asked for your commentary on your OP question on "whole body power mechanical" (physical) differences…

Your post is convoluted. Boxing power generation is described in various ways depending on the type of strike (e.g., lead or rear hand), distance, set up, etc.

You did give an opinion — you evaluated the post through boxing terminology, but you haven’t clarified what experience you’re drawing from.

The question I asked earlier was simply to establish context, not to debate anything:

Do you personally train Taiji’s internal method?

If yes, then the distinction I raised will make sense.
If not, then it’s natural that everything appears the same from the outside — without tactile experience, the internal mechanics aren’t visible.

 

[windwalker099102]

If it was at the White Crane Supply store, that was Sifu William Siu. Sifu Siu was the owner of that shop. He was a close friend of Sifu Fong, and passed away recently. His son contacted me and passed along some of his father’s belongings, including some writings he was working on. His son is not connected to martial arts, and recognized that I and those to whom I am connected, would get more value from them than he would. It was a fortunate meeting and I am grateful to his son for reaching out to me.

I only ever met Sifu Siu once, also at the store, before I was a crane practitioner, I was training capoeira in San Francisco at the time. Probably about 1996 or so.

Condolences to you and your teacher’s family.
It was a long time ago for me — back in the 70s — my home town, SF.
Grew up meeting some interesting people from that era.

 

[Fungus94]

How about in Adam Mizner’s sparring video?

One sign I see here is that the defender has a stronger structure, and the attackes is putting alot of energy of accelerating is own body. Then the attacker times the incoming moving tarkt, does step slightly and gets a little forward momentum, but still not outside the support aread (his feet are wide). This counter strike is nice as it combines his own strike, with the attackes own momentum. So the impulse of of the opponent is used against him, in an efficient way.

I think the boundaries are not black or white, the defender moves his feet, but in a way that puts structure an balance first, this is much unlike the attacker which is first of all wasting alot more energy, and second transiently sacrificing balance.

 

[Flying Crane]

Condolences to you and your teacher’s family.
It was a long time ago for me — back in the 70s — my home town, SF.
Grew up meeting some interesting people from that era.

To be clear, Sifu Siu was not my Sifu, Sifu Fong is. Sifu Fong is well, I just saw him over the Christmas weekend.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

Do you personally train Taiji’s internal method?
If yes, then the distinction I raised will make sense.
If not, then it’s natural that everything appears the same from the outside — without tactile experience, the internal mechanics aren’t visible.

Taiji has nice "hook punch" such as "left/right striking tiger". Do you train Taiji "left/right striking tiger"?

If you

- do, how do you do it differently from a boxing hook punch from inside?
- don't, why?

 

[Appledog41]

Tai Chi does not use a groundpath. Tai Chi uses softness to overcome strength.

The idea of using a groundpath comes from other martial arts trying to replicate what Taijiquan does. Even Chaquan can bounce people over using 'ground path'. If you use internal torque your groundpath will get bent and bounce out like a spring. This is basic 'shaolin'. Nothing to do with Tai Chi. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means it's from a different martial art. Thats why people like Yap Bo Hong or Huang Shen Shan look like they're doing Tai Chi when they're not.

it's the same everywhere. There are 2, 3, 4 or sometimes more "frames" within a certain style. After a long time, sometimes, frames become separate styles, and people forget the truth.

In 1380 Zhao Huiqian said "Using the Six Books without understanding the Six Books." This is exactly where we are in Tai Chi community today. There is nothing new under the sun, only those who understand and those who do not. If you would like to understand, you must become like a child and go to the source

 

[Same Trick48]

edit-
Sorry , mistake thread

 

[Same Trick48]

Ok, TJQ then . TJQ hold the meaning - “Grand Ultimate” - nothing missing, holds everything.

 

[windwalker099102]

Tai Chi does not use a groundpath. Tai Chi uses softness to overcome strength.

A few days ago I met a park worker who was interested in my practice. He had a martial arts background but had never really interacted with someone who practiced Taiji, I showed him a few small examples so he could feel it directly.

He said it felt solid, yet there was no place to push against. There was no visible movement from me — only emptying. He assumed I was redirecting his force, so I asked him to try again while I actually redirected it. This time he could clearly feel a point to push on.

The difference was clear.
Redirection exposed a pivot and a ground path.
What he felt at first did not.

Takes time to move beyond the instinctive use of "ground path"
when issuing and responding to force.

Ok, TJQ then . TJQ hold the meaning - “Grand Ultimate” - nothing missing, holds everything.

It’s worth noting that Taijiquan was a name applied later to an art that previously went by other names. The term emerged to describe underlying principles rather than as an original style name.

While some interpret Taiji as “nothing missing, holding everything,” it is closer to its classical meaning as a description of the dynamic interaction of yin and yang. The name can be attributed to :

Weng Tonghe a high-ranking official and Imperial Tutor to the Guangxu Emperor in the Qing Dynasty. After witnessing Yang Luchan defeat several reputable opponents at a gathering in the imperial household with his soft, neutralizing techniques, Weng Tonghe was deeply impressed by the philosophical and physical manifestation of the art.

"Hands Holding taiji shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes."

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

Tai Chi does not use a groundpath. Tai Chi uses softness to overcome strength.

The "groundpath" can be seen easily in "fair lady works on shuttle" and "brush knee twist step". The back leg bend -> back leg straight generate power from the back leg all the way to the leading palm.

 

[Appledog41]

The "groundpath" can be seen easily in "fair lady works on shuttle" and "brush knee twist step". The back leg bend -> back leg straight generate power from the back leg all the way to the leading palm.

Who told you this?

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

Who told you this?

You can see with your own eyes. Can you see the back leg bend -> back leg straight (at 0.10)?

 

[Same Trick48]

A few days ago I met a park worker who was interested in my practice. He had a martial arts background but had never really interacted with someone who practiced Taiji, I showed him a few small examples so he could feel it directly.

He said it felt solid, yet there was no place to push against. There was no visible movement from me — only emptying. He assumed I was redirecting his force, so I asked him to try again while I actually redirected it. This time he could clearly feel a point to push on.

The difference was clear.
Redirection exposed a pivot and a ground path.
What he felt at first did not.

Takes time to move beyond the instinctive use of "ground path"
when issuing and responding to force.




It’s worth noting that Taijiquan was a name applied later to an art that previously went by other names. The term emerged to describe underlying principles rather than as an original style name.

While some interpret Taiji as “nothing missing, holding everything,” it is closer to its classical meaning as a description of the dynamic interaction of yin and yang. The name can be attributed to :

Weng Tonghe a high-ranking official and Imperial Tutor to the Guangxu Emperor in the Qing Dynasty. After witnessing Yang Luchan defeat several reputable opponents at a gathering in the imperial household with his soft, neutralizing techniques, Weng Tonghe was deeply impressed by the philosophical and physical manifestation of the art.

"Hands Holding taiji shakes the whole world, a chest containing ultimate skill defeats a gathering of heroes."

Yes that’s the story I’m with about naming that specific MA -Taijiquan.
Yang Luchan had his specific expression, how about his students, doesn’t the story tell they each held their own specific expressions of YLC’s Taijiquan

 

[Appledog41]

You can see with your own eyes. Can you see the back leg bend -> back leg straight (at 0.10)?

I guess the real question is whether or not you want an answer from someone who has two eyes, or from someone who has one eye.

 

[Same Trick48]

I guess the real question is whether or not you want an answer from someone who has two eyes, or from someone who has one eye.

Are you a “Chen guy” ?. Someone claimed “Chen guys” don’t do ground path, only believe in dantian

 

[windwalker099102]

Are you a “Chen guy” ?. Someone claimed “Chen guys” don’t do ground path, only believe in dantian

It might help to clarify what is meant by “ground path” and “dantian,” since people often use these terms in very different ways.

 

[Kung Fu Wang102]

It might help to clarify what is meant by “ground path” and “dantian,” since people often use these terms in very different ways.

When you sit on a highchair with your legs hanging in the air, if you punch at your opponent, your punch may still have power, but that won't be your maximum power. IMO, to be able to generate maximum power, the ground path is a must.

Can you push a car when you sit on a highchair with your feet off the ground?