Haruhiko
Brown Belt
That you think "the combat side of martial arts" is the same as intentionally getting into fights demonstrates how cunningly you mischaracterised what I said, if not for a lack of reading comprehension, then sheer stupidity.
"classic" martial art vs "modern" martial arts
- Thread starter Dirk WHKD Barmbek
- Start date
That you think "the combat side of martial arts" is the same as intentionally getting into fights demonstrates how cunningly you mischaracterised what I said, if not for a lack of reading comprehension, then sheer stupidity.
drop bear146 22
Sr. Grandmaster
No. Please.
Do tell me what you mean by a Combative side of martial arts that isn't about beating people up.
"As for the "beating people up" part... yeah... I can't say I've ever considered that a requisite for any martial art I've trained in. Ever."
drop bear146 22
Sr. Grandmaster
As far as intention and intentional. A lot of people train martial arts with the intention that they will use that in a fight.
But may not intentionally cause fights.
My definition of "the combat side of martial arts" is your opponent cannot land his punch/kick on your body. We all try to achieve that.
Iām not sure I understand.
I wouldnāt. Itās just a stick and after the maximum momentum of the stick is āspentā itās pretty benign. Plus getting in close to someone swinging it, renders it very cumbersome indeed! I imagine that once itās swung and misses, a good MMAer would rush in at you and pull your head off.
I think you would have about one shot to get a strike in with the bokken. If you miss or don't hit the guy hard enough, you are done.
isshinryuronin37 37
Senior Master
No experience in bokken art, but I believe in sword art a second cut returning on the same line is common. This could make it difficult for the empty hander to close in to counter. The length of the weapon gives the experienced wielder an advantage, not only in distance, but in the resulting time it would take for the opponent to close.
It's true that at close range a bokken will not be as effective as a sharpened sword, but with some footwork controlling distance this may be mitigated a little. Also, the empty-handed fighter will likely have little experience in defending/attacking against a long weapon. While a long stick may not mean certain victory, I don't think the case is as hopeless as you make it out to be.
When one trains "knife against spear" 2 men form, he is training how to use knife to deal with spear. He is not training the other way around. To be able to use spear to deal with knife is by default.
When a modern MA girl challenges a TMA girl, the modern MA girl brings her boxing gloves. The TMA girl brings her Guan Dao. They may have different definition of "challenge".
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
Didnt Musashi duel using bokken? Didnt he smash beyond repair the arm of the heir apparent of some famous Daimyo? Didnt he defeat Sasaki Kojiro with a carved piece of wooden oar?
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
Depends on the mustache.
Oh with a real sword, everyoneād be sashimi!
Itās a stick - nothing special.
I was surprised to learn that the Japanese only refer to them as ābokutÅā since a bokken would have a straight ābladeā.
Then theyāre not worth their salt.
All things being equal, any tool would likely be better than the empty hand. Iād rather have a bokutÅ than ākoroddy handsā!
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
Ok I havenāt been in any gunfights lately, so I havenāt pressure tested it. Am I more competent than an untrained person? Good question, I believe so because untrained people donāt even know how to properly operate firearms. All things considered, regular consistent practice and familiarity weigh fairly heavy in competent firearms use. Shooting is certainly a perishable skill, much like other martial arts. People who may have trained once upon a time wonāt be nearly as effective as a person who trains several times a week. This one I can and have put to the test. Bottom line is that I have won multiple long range competitions. I would love to see the walk on that never fired a gun come beat me at 1000 yds with 3 different winds between us and the target. I have bested tab wearing snipers at this in field conditions, not at a range, no spotting scope, no kestrel, no B.S.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Are you seriously comparing anyone who currently trains in a sword art to Musashi? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Edit: Just to be more clear, you started with @Gyakuto and then jumped to Musashi. What struck my funny bone is that, Musashi is really, really dead. I don't think he'd do very well in a duel, at all.
Which is pretty much the point made earlier, that the classical/traditional training model looks for validation in the past. He was effective, ergo my training is effective. Where modern styles look forward. My students are effective, ergo my training is effective.
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
A classic Monty Python sketch... well, I guess they're all classics at this point. But still.
Unless the bad guy takes it from you and bonks you on the head with it.
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
Thereās this thing called tongue in cheek for those who canāt recognize it.
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
As far as students go, how many of us in this thread have students?
Wing Woo Gar82 5
Grandmaster
Separate note, Iām curious if you think average traditional hobbyist mid level belt level kata guy with limited sparring experience would fare better or worse than an untrained regular guy? Neither one has ever been in a real fight. To be fair I donāt really have a dog in this fight. Iām not a big kata/ form guy. My teachers knew them, but saw them as review rather than functional as teaching methods in and of themselves. I see value in that respect, and as a way to teach flow and speed in execution. This is only possible and useful after the basic foundations are established and very strong. Lots of flowery kata or forms in a style is suspect in my opinion. I donāt think a form teaches anything about fighting. Fighting is learned by fighting. I donāt need to kill things to learn to shoot proficiently. But I do need to regularly practice a set of skills in repetition similar to a kata.
