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Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

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My 2 cents:

I've been in both camps, and am simply not sure what to think anymore. I've worked quite hard for some of my accomplishments, but am older, slower, and not nearly as athletic as I was back in the day. My main instructor insisted it was skill based, and that you couldn't wear it if you couldn't defend it. With that prejudice, I'd meet oldsters who competed in such and such in the 50's and 60's, but had since retired and gained 100 lbs. They'd say they were a black belt, and realizing they couldn't fight for more than 30 seconds without passing out, my take was, "I doubt it". I was worse about disabilities and individual differences. Met a San Soo BB in a chair, talking about his 4th degree test/promotion. My impatient and prejudiced thoughts: You can't even practice stances or kick...how can you possibly pretend to possess expert status in a martial art which has those as part of its core requirements? (now I provide rehab services for folks with disabilities, and admire a courage they have, that I do not, daily. Go figure)

I now consider that I was young, dumb, and easily influenced by the biases of an otherwise cruel and intolerant man. But I still feel silly strapping on instructors rank when I can't even make it through the warm-up portion of class without checking my heart rate and resting a bit.

Taught in an MMA place for a spell, where we just trained a lot. No ranks; material was whatever presented itself that evening (i.e., people getting stuck in the guard? Work on passing the guard tonight. Infighting from a clinch looks weak? Work on Thai and modified JKD stuff for crashing and fighting an inside game this evening). Everybody contributed insights and suggestions, and we would work on challenges together, brainstorming. It was kinda nice. No pressure; no ego. And when other people came in and started chatting about their glorious accomplishments and lofty ranks, we would just look at each other, then look at them, and say "Yep. We just randori & spar a lot."

I still think there is a place for rank, as a means of identifying seniority within an organization...seems like the oldsters who paved the way for the rest of us should have something honoring their trail-blazer status that made it possible for us to be here, do this.

D.
 
I

Ippon Ken

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ppko said:
Are you still a Blackbelt after you give up the Martial Arts ( for lets say 10 years ). What I guess I am trying to say is should someone still consider themselves a blackbelt after not training for a extended period of time
Unless you continue to train, I'd have to say "no". Many of Hohan Soken's senior students (Matsumura Orthodox Shorin Ryu), who trained with and received a BB (usually Shodan maybe Nidan) from him in the early 60s, will go around nowadays claiming they are Soke this or Grandmaster that. Most of them stopped training when they left Okinawa, decided to cash in on their limited knowledge and skills in Shorin Ryu (kinda' like Bill Wallace and Joe lewis), but unlike those two kickboxing pioneers they had discontinued any training or new learning for decades. Now all of a sudden they are 10th dans.

So, I don't feel that someone who got a "kid" BB in a system in the 70s or 80s or a Shodan in the 60s, but didn't keep progressing and looking for more skill and knowledge, but instead quit for years on end, should be able to claim their yudansha status as currently legitimate. That's just my opinion.
 

kenpo tiger

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Andrew Green said:
I would disagree.

Western sports have no real equivalent of the belt system.

We have A teams, B teams, different coaching levels, but nothing like a belt system.

The belt system is much more Japanese, in that a paper trail is needed for everything, and certification is needed for everything.
Not having been allowed to play sports as a little girl, I wouldn't know.
And, my point is that the 'ancients' did not have belts, only knowledge.
 

Flatlander

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akja said:
What about an aged master who can barely walk or is in a wheelchair? Has he lost his Knowledge? Can he run his organization?
Of course, my friend. The man could only have achieved this level of expertise by continuing to train as a way of life. Ergo, deserving of the responsibility. As has been alluded to upthread, should one attempt to re-enter the 'business' by proclaiming one's status after a significant hiatus, most of his/her peers would consider this inappropriate, as I am sure you would as well. :asian:
 

James Kovacich

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flatlander said:
Of course, my friend. The man could only have achieved this level of expertise by continuing to train as a way of life. Ergo, deserving of the responsibility. As has been alluded to upthread, should one attempt to re-enter the 'business' by proclaiming one's status after a significant hiatus, most of his/her peers would consider this inappropriate, as I am sure you would as well. :asian:

Another example.

It is said by his direct peers that because he had a 10 year hiatus, Vincent Cabales is not deserving of his Grandmaster status after his father (Angel)passed Cabales Serrada Escrima do him before he died.

I don't know if he really took 10 years off but he is officially the "successor."
 

Flatlander

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I don't know anything about that situation, but an "official successor" as chosen by the outgoing "master" is not necessarily the one best qualified. If one had been training on their own in some other capacity for those 10 years, they should still be sharp. If they have been eating potato chips and watching Dr. Phil, perhaps they've lost a bit of the old edge....yes?
 

Shogun

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I truly believe when you are ranked within you school (or org. if it is a tight organization) that is the only place you are ranked. you should never ask to wear your BB in a different school or org.
 

Rob Broad

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MichiganTKD said:
I'm not sure if a black belt cannot be revoked. If I issue a black belt and certificate through my organization, I can revoke it as well, or at least cut the student. Therefore, to ensure my credibility, it is my obligation to recommend students to test only those who I feel measure up to the standards of black belt and I can trust.

Yes, people do promote themselves, but it doesn't make it right.

Revocation of rank is a politcal maeuvre. Al tracy has been knowwn to do this in the past to peopel that fellout of his favor. Does it mean anything? Not really, even if the association disavows your existence they can not remove your knowledge.
 
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ppko

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Rob Broad said:
Revocation of rank is a politcal maeuvre. Al tracy has been knowwn to do this in the past to peopel that fellout of his favor. Does it mean anything? Not really, even if the association disavows your existence they can not remove your knowledge.
A very good point
 

BlackCatBonz

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Shogun said:
I truly believe when you are ranked within you school (or org. if it is a tight organization) that is the only place you are ranked. you should never ask to wear your BB in a different school or org.
so when soke "so and so" and grandmaster "whomever" come to teach a seminar.........please leave your belt at the door?

i dont think so........the term sensei is literally translated as "one who has gone before", and that one should be afforded the respect that goes along with his or her ranking

shawn
 

kenpo tiger

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BlackCatBonz said:
so when soke "so and so" and grandmaster "whomever" come to teach a seminar.........please leave your belt at the door?

i dont think so........the term sensei is literally translated as "one who has gone before", and that one should be afforded the respect that goes along with his or her ranking

shawn
I have the feeling you are misinterpreting what was said in that post. One can be sure that if a Grandmaster is invited to another school, his rank has been and will continue to be recognized. I believe the original statement applies to us peons of lesser knowledge. KT
 

terryl965

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Well here is my two cents. I have not tested in over twenty years for the simple reasons of the ranks does not make knowledge in there Art, it only serves as a stepping stone for those that need recognition, I.E. if you put in time with me than I'll make you a Master or Grand Master and all along they use you take your money, have you train there students and they get all the glory. I need no stripe on my belt to give me more knowledge, I need books and well rounded individuals that have knowledge of the Art, point of views about techniques. Wisdom comes from time spent developing your inner spirit, with wisdom comes knowledge and insight. My journey will end when my thrist for knowledge ends and I feel I cannot learn anymore, which simply means when I'm dead for everyday I learn something I did not know the day before... GOD BLESS AMERICA
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TigerWoman

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terryl965 said:
everyday I learn something I did not know the day before...

I guess that is why we are all here on MT, thirsting for more knowledge. I have learned so much about other arts, disciplines, common physical problems that we share, information about books, tips about training, moral dilemmas, sparring/fighting techniques, self defense tactics, info about other schools and teaching, and most of all, opinions from other martial artists and their support. TW
 

kenpo tiger

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TigerWoman said:
I guess that is why we are all here on MT, thirsting for more knowledge. I have learned so much about other arts, disciplines, common physical problems that we share, information about books, tips about training, moral dilemmas, sparring/fighting techniques, self defense tactics, info about other schools and teaching, and most of all, opinions from other martial artists and their support. TW
Even from those who AREN'T black belts... KT
 

Rob Broad

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kenpo tiger said:
Even from those who AREN'T black belts... KT


MartialTalk has become a very useful to many, many people. It is grown into an amazing resource for information pertaining ot the martial arts.
 

TigerWoman

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I guess that is all the more reason why we, who love this forum, should be supporting members. After all its only $12. That's maybe 2-3 trips to a fast food restaurant or a magazine subscription, which usually you don't get much out. TW
 

terryl965

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TigerWoman said:
I guess that is all the more reason why we, who love this forum, should be supporting members. After all its only $12. That's maybe 2-3 trips to a fast food restaurant or a magazine subscription, which usually you don't get much out. TW
How do yopu become a supporting member????? GOD BLESS AMERICA
 

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