backyard study

[lonecoyote]

Anybody else study this way? That is, outside of a commercial dojo system, not necessarily in a backyard or garage. There are people out there in rec halls, Ys, university clubs, backyards, garages, etc. keeping their arts alive and charging next to nothing, or sometimes nothing at all. I trained at a university club for a long time, paid 20 dollars a semester, and most of the time it was just me and the instructor, so I learned a whole lot. We'd train in his living room, yard, whereever, though for a good while we had access to a great room at the gym with a mirror and mats. Downside to this training is that it is real personal, and people can be pretty strange. Last guy I visited who trained outside commercial systems had a pretty creepy vibe. for those study this way, do you prefer it? Do you have any tips for people looking to study this way? Heres mine: check bulletin boards at universities and community colleges, if its a university club, you might have to take a little one credit class, but thats good for you anyway.

 

[OC Kid]

Thats all I do anymore. I train my son and some other kids. I have a complete dojo w/ pads double ended bags and heavy bags train year round. I do it for free as the kids I teach are from disadvantaged homes whose parents dont even speak english. I am starting Tuesday at a rec center in a park behind the house.

I dont charge anything. But I am going to for the new students. The ones who I will take at my backyard dojo. Why? Because we as people dont respect or take serious anything that is free. This way they can at least help pay for the equipment. Ive bought mouth pieces, cups gloves ect for them and have gotten no respect. everything has been out of my own pocket.
They dont show up or anything. I got one kid (other than my own son) who I am going to test for yellow belt this next week.
After doing this for a year and going through about 12 students he is the only one who has really had a desire to learn.

But talking to a bud of mine who has a full time dojo , kids usually are pretty flakey. But im thinking about a nominal fee of about 35-40 bucks a month. At least until they show me they want to learn.

For me my work outs consist of setting up my interval timer running intervals on the tread mill then stretching/hitting roundes by interval on the double ended then heavy bag. Im trying to find a adult to work out to hold the pads for me. My son tries but he is still a little young to do it.

There I go babbling again and again.

 

[lonecoyote]

I've only studied with adults, but I've studied at commercial dojos and seen the kids classes and they are a little flaky, but of course they are only kids. as far as people not respecting what they don't pay for, well, I hear you, but there are other ways to get paid than with money. I paid my instructor by not ever missing a workout, which I knew he needed as much as I did, and by being a sounding board for new techniques and just being a dedicated student. I knew that was payment enough, because he got a lot out of that.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I taught in the backyard for years. It was a great time and I did not have o worry about paying rent.
There are some really good people out there who just do not want the problems of teaching in a large school.

 

[jfarnsworth]

When I studied under my first TKD instructor this is what we did. He taught out of his garage. For the first 2 - 2.5 yrs. of my training were spent there. He charge 20 bucks a month but that mostly paid for the two kerosene heaters he used during the winter time. We would perform kicks at the beginning of class then spar the rest of the time. If you got your @ss kicked then you got it kicked. If you were backed up against the brick wall then you were expected to get out. If swept to the floor you didn't cry and whine you picked your @ss back up as soon as possible and kept on fighting. I miss some of those days of training. Too many people nowadays cry over getting hit too hard. If/when someone whines during class or they are sweating too much I have no sympathy, sorry but that's just the way it goes. :asian:

 

[RCastillo]

I've spent a fair amount of time teaching privately. My garage is is set up with flooring,air, all equipment. I'e got alot of mixed feelings in doing that. In the beginning, I seriously underchaged, just to teach, and it did ok. After working all day, it got to be a chore, getting the garage ready, so I pretty much have taught outside of the home.

I need a release, and getting out of the home is the best thing for me. I also do not have to worry about legal issues/strange people. In fact, many people do not want personal trainning. I think the problems that have occuured within society have contributed to that, and many adults don't/or want to make the time to learn. I do invite my students for small informal sessions if they need extra help. I have one I work with at home due to his work, but I charge a fee worth my time/effort, which is 20 an hr,(all up front for the month) so it's up to them if they want it that bad.

My class right now is small, pays for the room rental, so I guess I'm doing all right. Out of six students I have, only 2 are really serious.

The group class thing, is another story in itself. Thanks! :asian:

 

[Tony]

Hi Everyone

Just read this Thread! And I think very noble of you Lonecoyote teaching disadvantaged kids! I remember long ago when I really wanted to learn a Martial Art I was too scared to go to a club.But my sister had a friend who taught me some basics of Lau Gar Kung Fu, such as punches and kicks and thta would help me with my training I do today. .
I occasionaly show my friends what I've learnt and test things out on them but I don;t think I could teach a large class. Maybe 2 or 3 people , just genuine people who wanted to learn. I certainly welcome an exchange of information from other styles. I remember I used to teach a little to my mum's friend's son, just some basic self defence stuff and that was only things I had learned from books and then I proceeded to teach a little of what I learn in Kung Fu! It was quite fun! Now that I'm a senior grade I sometimes ahve to teach the younger kids and that is so annoying because they don't all listen and I hate having that kind of responsibility.
I appreciate what my instructor has to deal with, all that and with paying the rent of our class, paper work, arranging people to fight in tournaments and such! Just seems liek so much hassle. So teaching people in the comfort of your home or other places informally seems like a better option to me!

 

[lonecoyote]

That wasn't me Tony, that was OC Kid. Yeah that is pretty nice of him. There is a whole underground it seems of people teaching outside of the commercial dojo system. I just found another one in my town (pop. 30,000) so that makes three so far. I emailed the guy but someone would have to leave my name to get on base. Anyway, how do you find these hidden martial artists? I look at bulletin boards everywhere-colleges, laundry, wal mart, and look at the internet. any other ideas? Mr. Castillo, I used to live in Corpus Christi about 15 years ago, saw pictures on your website of a demo at heritage park, I used to live a couple of blocks from there, brought back a lot of memories.

 

[MJS]

Its amazing because some of the best instructors that you may come across, teach from their own backyard. I've been training with a guy for quite a few years now, and we have some excellent training sessions. Its good to be outside, out of the training hall, with none of the typical stuff that you see in many commercial places. I've been with him for a little over 10yrs, and I find that is where I have my best training!

Not saying that you cant get good training in a dojo setting, you definately can, but its a different feel.

Mike

 

[Littledragon]

Thats all I do anymore. I train my son and some other kids. I have a complete dojo w/ pads double ended bags and heavy bags train year round. I do it for free as the kids I teach are from disadvantaged homes whose parents dont even speak english. I am starting Tuesday at a rec center in a park behind the house.

I dont charge anything. But I am going to for the new students. The ones who I will take at my backyard dojo. Why? Because we as people dont respect or take serious anything that is free. This way they can at least help pay for the equipment. Ive bought mouth pieces, cups gloves ect for them and have gotten no respect. everything has been out of my own pocket.
They dont show up or anything. I got one kid (other than my own son) who I am going to test for yellow belt this next week.
After doing this for a year and going through about 12 students he is the only one who has really had a desire to learn.

But talking to a bud of mine who has a full time dojo , kids usually are pretty flakey. But im thinking about a nominal fee of about 35-40 bucks a month. At least until they show me they want to learn.

For me my work outs consist of setting up my interval timer running intervals on the tread mill then stretching/hitting roundes by interval on the double ended then heavy bag. Im trying to find a adult to work out to hold the pads for me. My son tries but he is still a little young to do it.

There I go babbling again and again.

That is fantastic and truley admerable. I bow for that.:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

That wasn't me Tony, that was OC Kid. Yeah that is pretty nice of him. There is a whole underground it seems of people teaching outside of the commercial dojo system. I just found another one in my town (pop. 30,000) so that makes three so far. I emailed the guy but someone would have to leave my name to get on base. Anyway, how do you find these hidden martial artists? I look at bulletin boards everywhere-colleges, laundry, wal mart, and look at the internet. any other ideas? Mr. Castillo, I used to live in Corpus Christi about 15 years ago, saw pictures on your website of a demo at heritage park, I used to live a couple of blocks from there, brought back a lot of memories.

Really!?! A small world. Glad to have met up with you Sir! :asian:

 

[MichiganTKD]

I teach in a small building owned by the City and used primarily for Seniors. Except for a listing on the City web site, our class is totally independant of any program. Money problems by the City have a lot to do with that. They simply can't afford to pay Instructors. It has been my observation that commercial dojangs or dojangs run by a larger franchise are crap. They are more concerned with getting bodies in the door than providing sound teaching.
I charge $35/month, and have been known to allow students short of money to delay payment. Our classes are also a lot smaller than commercial dojangs. But many of them are glorified baby sitting services. Our students work HARD every class.
As mentioned in another thread, word of mouth is great publicity for us. Students come to our class because others recommend it.

 

[Flatlander]

I train in a garage, or outside if its nice. It's all 1 on 1 save the odd time there's three of us. Works well enough. We've got mats in there, so that helps. I like the idea of training in more than one location, just to mix it up a bit.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think that in the old days, most training was done in this fashion. Sure, there were martial arts schools, but those were for something different. Most of the REAL training was personal and private. This is how my instructor teaches. He runs a dojang out of college rec program. You would think that a school instructor would be more serious and more knowledgable, but that hasn't been my experience. Usually, the people doing it in the backyard or somewhat informally, have a deep love of the art that transcends money. Still, I believe, you need to be careful. There are bad apples in the backyard scene too.

Personally, my teaching occurs in a small setting. I teach out of a YWCA, exchanging lessons in women's self defense for space rental. My dojang is small. I have ten students. I like it this way because I can really focus on helping them fit the technique to their particular body type.

:asian:

upnorthkyosa

 

[shesulsa]

I've trained in backyards, parks, garages, a gym, a barn. I'd like to do more outdoor training - hardens you to the weather and challenges your resolve.

 

[OULobo]

I've trained in a brand new, well maintained, very expensive college athletic facility that we used for almost free because we were students. The cost was $15 every three months, training 4 days a week 2-4 hours per session. We even had 7 heavy bags, 5 grappling mats and Thai pads, focus mits, sparring gear and practice sticks for every student. Our club had between 10 and 20 students.

At the same time I was training in a barn that I was helping build into a gym as we trained in it. The property included the barn and a few outdoor areas with bag frames and training poles.

I have also trained in a teachers garage because he didn't want to publicly open a gym.

 

[Brother John]

Thats all I do anymore. I train my son and some other kids. I have a complete dojo w/ pads double ended bags and heavy bags train year round. I do it for free as the kids I teach are from disadvantaged homes whose parents dont even speak english. I am starting Tuesday at a rec center in a park behind the house.

I dont charge anything. But I am going to for the new students. The ones who I will take at my backyard dojo. Why? Because we as people dont respect or take serious anything that is free. This way they can at least help pay for the equipment. Ive bought mouth pieces, cups gloves ect for them and have gotten no respect. everything has been out of my own pocket.
They dont show up or anything. I got one kid (other than my own son) who I am going to test for yellow belt this next week.
After doing this for a year and going through about 12 students he is the only one who has really had a desire to learn.

But talking to a bud of mine who has a full time dojo , kids usually are pretty flakey. But im thinking about a nominal fee of about 35-40 bucks a month. At least until they show me they want to learn.

For me my work outs consist of setting up my interval timer running intervals on the tread mill then stretching/hitting roundes by interval on the double ended then heavy bag. Im trying to find a adult to work out to hold the pads for me. My son tries but he is still a little young to do it.

There I go babbling again and again.

I totally understand how you feel about those that you are charging and those that you won't. But won't this be a difficult thing to balance. It's a very subjective thing. What if some of the parents want to watch and in the mean time talk and the subject of what you charge comes up? How will you explain it to them? "Well mam, your son just doesn't seem sincere so I charge him each month. That other boy does seem sincere so it's free for him."
I don't mean to sound negative here. You really earned my respect for trying to aim to benefit these kids!!! :asian: That's a very honorable thing and it strikes close to the heart for me. I just think you might have problems with a subjective pay scale for the rest.
Your Brother
John

 

[OC Kid]

Well I thought about that also. Now new kids come I will charge about 35 bucks a month per a student . If the kids dont miss class then they will get their money back or can apply it to their next months training. If they miss then they got to pay again. At least thats what ive been kicking around.

Most of the problem as I see it is the parents themselves lack the discipline or desire to even encourage or even bring the kids even though it is really just walking distance from their homes.

As far as the parents coming and watching the class. Ive been doing this for a over a year and had students come and go. I have not had 1 thats right 1 parent actually come and watch a class or ask how their kids is doing not 1. Thats how much envolvement these parents have in their kids lives (poor things) most of the time they drop them off and stay in the car and beep the horn to pick them up.
Tonight, I start at the community center . Im anxious to see how that goes. I need at least 5 students to keep it going. The lady who manages the community center for the city isnt very motivated about recruiting so I dont know if she even mentioned the program there.
But I dont woory about this (to much) I keep telling myself that " I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Its really his dojo and his plan. If it fails then so be it. If it takes off then so be it. if not this then another gig will show up.
There I go babbling again...:>) sorry we're off the subject this should really be a seperate thread.

 

[Brother John]

Love this subject!!!!!!!!!
When I first started training as a child it was at my instructor's house. Usually in his basement, but often enough in the back yard. Like me, he enjoyed training in the open air. He charged $15.00 per month. Period. No test fees, no yearly dues, no start-up fees, no nothin else. Pretty cool as I was seven and had to do odd jobs for my uncle and grandpa for a few bucks here and a couple dollars there in order to pay for my ongoing lessons. Eventually my dad helped me set up a lawn mowing business which he and I did every summer. For me it more than covered paying for my martial arts habit (admit it, once you're hooked...it's an addiction.) I kept this lawn mowing business from the time I was 10 until I was 20. I went from two lawns at $10.00 each, once a week to eventually I had 12 lawns and my average charge was $25.00 per week. (Best one was a bank who had only a little grass but paid me $45.00 a week to keep it manicured) So martial arts led me to understand the value of a dollar and helped me be industrius and build a good work ethic. I've paid my own way for over 25 years now.
Back to the 'out of the comercial school' subject.
My instructor eventually moved out of state. I then began to study a Tae Kwan Do/GoJu Ryu Karate mix. It was at a downtown location, but it felt less classy than my Sensei's backyard... it was a renovated garage...Hard to keep it cool at all in the summer months and even harder to keep it warm (except with body heat) in the winter months. I LOVED IT! It was a little hole in the wall, but it was OUR cozy little hole in the wall. The school flourished. Eventually the school did so well for the instructor that he moved to a "Better location" on a better street. He put out a lot of money on paint and a nicer sign and everything. The school didn't do as well. It was odd. From a business persons point of view, it should have been the reverse. Eventually one of he and one of his studnents had a 'blow out' and the student (a 3rd Dan by that time) went back to that hole in the wall and opened up classes there. His school flourished!!! It grew by leaps and bounds. Eventually that instructor also moved to a MUCH larger place. It was gigantic!!! Lots of paint, NICE dressing rooms. He made a very good go of it for some time. Eventually the schools size lead to a 'political' climate between the instructor and his assistants... opinions w/in the upper ranks differed... the school, just like the instructors motivation/joy for teaching, disintigrated. It ended up with him moving to his back yard again...I joined him there and we had a GREAT time.

A few years later I moved to college. Studied at some very successful (at least they were profitable $, and I had a good time, learned good things ) martial arts schools while there. After college my friend introduced me to a Kenpo instructor in Wichita...which was an hour's drive from my hometown where I was moving to. I LOVED Kenpo...but hadn't ever found an instructor that I wanted to go under. Mr. Taylor (My Kenpo instructor) had made a go of it with a few Kenpo schools for the past couple of decades...did well. But eventually he got tired of running the business side of the school. HATED it to be more exact. He quit teaching. That was the year before I met him. When we met and talked for some time he agreed to take me on as his one student. A big honor. I studied with him in his apartment or in the park near his house that we'd jog to.
Now I'm the teacher. I've got my small group of dedicated guys who train in a cleared out room in my basement. If everyone shows up all on the same day we'd be like sardines. But we are close in more ways than spatially. I charge a pittance. My real charge is on their brains and bodies, and they pay up in full each and every class...and keep coming back for more.

Great subject. Garages, back yards, parks, basements.... their home to me.
Hole in the wall Kenpo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your Brother (who needs to go now to sweep the hole in the wall for tonights class....)
John

 

[Rick Wade]

That is the way most of the Schools in Hawaii are at least on Oahu. I study American Kenpo and I am not charged anything. Most of the other Rec centers are 20 - 35 dollars a month and offer classes 3 times a week.

Respectfully