backyard study

[KenpoTess]

*nodding about the night stuff.. I'm sooo night blind (resulting from skiing back in the 70's with not so great goggles).. and we usually work out til 9:30ish PM, trying to see people wearing black gi's in the dark is Very difficult for me.. there's one street light but it's rather blocked by the garage.. so I have a tough time in poor light. and even worse is dusk.. where there's just that hazy light.. from then on.. I have to be right on top of someone to see what's going on

~Tess

 

[Jim Perkins]

Good post I think this kind of training brings martial arts back to it's roots.

 

[Cruentus]

*nodding about the night stuff.. I'm sooo night blind (resulting from skiing back in the 70's with not so great goggles).. and we usually work out til 9:30ish PM, trying to see people wearing black gi's in the dark is Very difficult for me.. there's one street light but it's rather blocked by the garage.. so I have a tough time in poor light. and even worse is dusk.. where there's just that hazy light.. from then on.. I have to be right on top of someone to see what's going on

~Tess

Now...I'll bet that any male (and some females :wink1: ) after reading this post will show up to your next class in a black gi...hoping for a power outage...

Sorry...Couldn't resist!

:wavey: Paul

 

[Flatlander]

Well, someone had to say it, glad it wasn't me, otherwise, we'd be hearing "Stayin' Alive" pretty soon....

 

[FUZZYJ692000]

Our outdoor training grounds are two-tiered, looks rather like it once was a rice paddy back in the day.. the lower level is all trampled down to the dirt, and it's rather 'fun' to work out after a fresh rain
Last night, we were gathered up on the porch, pondering going out back or inside, as it was just sprinkling, the consensus was outdoors. The upper belts were working on some leg sweeps on the upper level, and contending with a hilly terrain, some bushes and a chain link fence along with a 150 yr old brick smoke house.. I was most amused by the 'wipe outs' *snickers*
It's an excellent place to get a feel for the real world back there, all sorts of things to be 'Environmentally Aware' of

~Tess

I'm so glad you were amused. tis okay i greatly enjoyed alex falling down the hill trying to do that leg sweep. those boys are all most amusing. i must say i enjoy the backyard training. you're not always going to be attacked in the daylight, in your gi on nice padded flooring. i like working at night....we did have a black out one night at the college and i was goofing with chronuss and alex and about killed myself on the steps. it's a good thing to practice on different terrian...little dips in the ground and all it's good to be able to move in smaller enclosed areas as well as open areas.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Thanks to everybody on this thread, this brought back enough memory's as to help me decide to try to get back in to teaching again, With any luck I'll be able to teach out of my garage, in 100+ degree heat out here in the palm springs area. One point i would like to add is on charging students, for many people, anything thats free is worth just that, nothing, so I've always recommended charging something, but for those who can't afford anything, allow them to work off their tuition, the more a student has to pay, and not just in money, the more valuable the training. once again THANK YOU.

I have to agree with you here.

Even though my karate instructor charged us nothing over the years, he slected everyone who was allowed to train with. he also had a base of students and instructors over the many years he trained prior to teaching out of the house. So he knew everyone and he didn't have to worry about someone sueing him or something. Still we had a few people who were wolves in sheeps clothing that trained with us for a while.

Myself I have tried the super cheap prices $5.00 a lesson, $30.00 a month etc. etc. and people wouldn't respect you enough. I know one guy who couldn't believe I was so cheap when he payed $180.00 a month for double private lessons ( I think 2 45 minutes lesson once a week). Still paying them as far as I know.

Mark

 

[Mark Lynn]

Speaking of wierd places to train.

1) One time my wife and I drove up to Dallas (from Waco) to train with my instructor, and we went over to a junior college to train with another instructors class. School / class was closed, anyway they felt so bad we trained outside on the walkways common area of the school during the night. Security just left us alone.

2) The instructor who taught us Kobudo arranged for us to train in a high rise down in Dallas for a couple of years on the weekends. If the room we used was booked they'd move us to another room (say for an art show or something). At one point we used the Rotondrua (some round building with glass enclosed walls ) that looked out onto the streets in Dallas. That was wierd training in uniform with people walking by and looking in checking us out.

3) My 2nd brown test was in a guy's backyard in 100+ heat in August or Sept. wearing heavy weight KI gi. We all about died from heat stroke. Actually the three others who were testing for 1st Black so it was a real rough test.

4) Some of the best training though came during seminars after hours in the hotel or dorm rooms.

5) In college my room mate used our dorm parking lot for some late night training.

The past 23 years have been great in training outside of the normal dojo.
Mark

 

[RCastillo]

Speaking of wierd places to train.

1) One time my wife and I drove up to Dallas (from Waco) to train with my instructor, and we went over to a junior college to train with another instructors class. School / class was closed, anyway they felt so bad we trained outside on the walkways common area of the school during the night. Security just left us alone.

2) The instructor who taught us Kobudo arranged for us to train in a high rise down in Dallas for a couple of years on the weekends. If the room we used was booked they'd move us to another room (say for an art show or something). At one point we used the Rotondrua (some round building with glass enclosed walls ) that looked out onto the streets in Dallas. That was wierd training in uniform with people walking by and looking in checking us out.

3) My 2nd brown test was in a guy's backyard in 100+ heat in August or Sept. wearing heavy weight KI gi. We all about died from heat stroke. Actually the three others who were testing for 1st Black so it was a real rough test.

4) Some of the best training though came during seminars after hours in the hotel or dorm rooms.

5) In college my room mate used our dorm parking lot for some late night training.

The past 23 years have been great in training outside of the normal dojo.
Mark

Man, you guys are Navy Seal material! :asian:

 

[OC Kid]

yea ya gotta charge. Im going to because I used to not charge but then they quit coming to class and show up when they want to play around when they were here. In the 14 months since I started teaching other than my boy I have not yet promoted anyone to even yellow belt. Why they never stick to it. The last kid I was going to promote I told him I bought his belt and was going to test him. He never came back again.
I started teach for the city at a rec center. Its only a summer program. The commitee there wants me to teach year round plus a womens self defense class. i told the wife great. If the city wants it then they can pay me like they are now. If they wont pay then Ill teach outta the house. 35 bucks a month 2 fer 25 bucks(family) each. No more freebies. My new motto is
"If they dont pay, They wont stay".
I have to go to a meeting with the community center committee soon and thats exactly what im gonna tell them. If they dont like it there is a McDojo (seriously) right up the street that they can go pay 160 bucks to start and 85 bucks a month on a 6 month contract.

 

[terryl965]

OC kid that is the right attitude if they do not want good training for a low price send them on there way to the McDojo's of the world... GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Tony]

I wish there was more of this type of training. How on earth would I find an instructor willing to teach me privately and even for free? I think I would be very committed to learning in this environment as a lot of the big schools have as many as 30 or 40 students training at any given time and that makes it hard for any individual to progress.
In the past I was too shy to join a class and I would train myself as best I could with books. How easier it would have been to have met someone who could have taught me in his back garden or a park even!

 

[OC Kid]

Mostly through word of mouth or through aquaintances. Occasionally a B/B may walk into your school looking for a place train He may be just looking for a training partner. Im sure there are peole out there. But ya gotta be careful cuz there are a lot of yahoos who are refugees from McDojos looking to show the world how good they are and they aient worth a nickel.

 

[OC Kid]

OC kid that is the right attitude if they do not want good training for a low price send them on there way to the McDojo's of the world... GOD BLESS AMERICA

The point isnt the price I would and have taught them for free but because I dont have the fancy capeting and mirrors with all the typical adornments they dont take the training seriously and just dont show up or drop out. They dont care because after all they want to be Jackie Chan but they dont want to work for it. I told some kids once that if they dont start paying attention they might as well go rent a video game and learn that way cuz thats about all theyre going to get out of it.
I learned If they dont pay It dont cost them anything, no cost no value. No value who the heck cares.

 

[KenpoTess]

Now...I'll bet that any male (and some females :wink1: ) after reading this post will show up to your next class in a black gi...hoping for a power outage...

Sorry...Couldn't resist!

:wavey: Paul

M'ere Paul~!!

I can put my Jiu Jitsu to use on ya


Keeping on topic.. When we do warmups outside.. the sheer pleasure of digging shale embers & stones out of the palms of your hands after pushups brings one back to reality quick

 

[Mark Lynn]

The point isnt the price I would and have taught them for free but because I dont have the fancy capeting and mirrors with all the typical adornments they dont take the training seriously and just dont show up or drop out. They dont care because after all they want to be Jackie Chan but they dont want to work for it. I told some kids once that if they dont start paying attention they might as well go rent a video game and learn that way cuz thats about all theyre going to get out of it.
I learned If they dont pay It dont cost them anything, no cost no value. No value who the heck cares.

I totally agree with you here.

I was teaching a small group of karate students, arnis once a month (6 weeks) arnis (driving and hour each way) for $5.00 lessons (each person). The instructors were teaching local kids karate for $1.00 donation each class. Sometimes the kids and all weren't even paying that. The students I was teaching the arnis to were all adults (students and instructors) and yet even then people would sometimes be there or not, or not place a value on the training or your time in teaching them.

I think part of it is that everyone was use to getting great instruction (from the other teachers (my karate instructor, other instructors with the association and all) at such keep prices ($5.00 for this special class, free for other instructors just come on and work out etc. etc.) that they didn't realize that I would spend $1,500+ a year going all over the place attending seminars and such to try and learn form the best instructors I could in arnis. The classes really just helped pay for the gas getting over there and maybe lunch.

Oh well time to head to work.
Mark

 

[Shogun]

I wish there was more of this type of training. How on earth would I find an instructor willing to teach me privately and even for free? I think I would be very committed to learning in this environment as a lot of the big schools have as many as 30 or 40 students training at any given time and that makes it hard for any individual to progress.
In the past I was too shy to join a class and I would train myself as best I could with books. How easier it would have been to have met someone who could have taught me in his back garden or a park even!

Totally with ya. first and foremost I student. even though I teach a couple people, I wouldnt think of charging. any student willing enough to show up and train with me is worth it enough. plus I'm young (19). I only make them pay for their own uniforms, belts, and weapons. I have some they can use though. I dont have a fancy Dojo (a field and padded bedroom) so charging would be pointless. they'd just go down the road and do TKD in a big fancy dojo from an instructor who claims to also teach drunken Kung fu, and pankration.
cheers,
Me

 

[Rob Broad]

I will be the first to admit that I miss having a full time school. Now I just train with a select few people, and at times things are better. But nothing compares to having a place with changerooms, lots of space, places for all the equipment. On the downside there was parents who thought I was nothing more than a babysitter, and the whiners who never wanted to work hard or pay, but expected to be black belts over night. If I could only have a school with people with the dedication of those I have now.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I was thinking about my earlier post on the way to work and wanted to perhaps clarify some things.

1) My karate instructor taught me for free, and I don't really charge for anything that he taught me. In fact I taught for a couple of years at a dojo teaching the American TKD basically free of charge. When in my earlier post I was mentioning about charging for classes, it was for the arnis that I teach since I've spent buckoos of bucks for instruction in that. Therefore I charge for arnis classes.

2) I've had students who didn't (don't) pay for arnis lessons and I still teach them.

I write this for the people who are taking lessons in the backyard schools, and for the instructors who teach the classes.

When I was coming up in the ranks I was invited to train with my karate instructor. I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW FORTUNATE I (WE) HAD IT. Therefore I did the same things that I now as an instructor complain about and wish that my students wouldn't do. Like not show up for class, and think that I won't be missed, not call etc. etc. Or think that my teacher or his instruction is any less because I was being taught in a dojo in a converted garage.

For years people looked down on my martial arts education because I didn't come from a high priced Master (insert any name from the phone book) school. It wasn't untill when I had to relocate and sought out schools for training and instruction that I realized how great I had it, and all of the training time I missed because I didn't it was quite as important since their wasn't a monatery investment.

Where else could I have found personalized instruction with a few individuals several who had been in the arts way way longer than I, not charged a dime, only blood ssweat and tears. Rank wasn't important training was (in fact we didn't wear belts until test time unless we went to another school to work out). My instructor always stressed to us that we (the students) kept him young, and that was payment enough. So I was brought up to think I didn't need to pay.

However in 1997 a friend and I looked into the possibilty of opening up a school (both our wives where scared that we wouldn't charge enough since we both came from the same dojo). Anyway I looked into NAPMA and such and realized that in a sense we were wrong.

For years I worked so much OT at work that I would do anything to teach or train with someone just to pass on what I had been learning in arnis. I taught guys from work for $5.00 for 1 1/2 hour lessons in the park, I'd drive 1 hour each way to teach a small group of students (again $5.00 each), I taught some students free, again so I could teach. All in hopes of trying to retain what I had learned, improve my skills, and pass on the art. The OT allowed me to spend $$$ going to seminars, buying equipment etc. etc. so I didn't really care about charging for classes.

But in reality I found out that other people didn't place the same vaule as I did on the training nor the instruction. So even if the class was free or dirt cheap, going to a movie, walking the dog etc. etc. came first in some student's eyes.

Got to go
Mark

 

[Mark Lynn]

OK I'm back

Anyway here are some of the reasons to charge for your classes.

1) What happens if you get hurt? One student did a head twist takedown on me and screwed up (including my neck) ended up costing me 3 visits (co-pays) to the chiropracter. Plus rearranging my schedule and all to go there etc. etc. He was one of my free students, and this is why I now want two or more people training if I'm showing those type of techniques. The same student applied a hammer lock to me for about 30 minutes trying to get the technique right.

2) If there is a monetary investment people will generally show up or be more inclined to. (Especially when they are beginners, intermeadite and advanced students realize the vaule and come regardless (sometimes), but beginners don't generally have a clue.)

3) If you have forked out big bucks for your training and you continue to shell out big bucks than charging helps off set your costs.

4) Supplies. At my instructors dojo at different times he has had to replace the sheet rock with plywood, repaint, replace the foor matts, replace the door, etc. etc. Or in my case with arnis there is different training weapons I purchase and let the students use, other equipment costs etc. etc.

5) What happens if someone gets hurt and sues you. As the instructor you have the responsibilty to show up, on time, teach a class, be the uke if no one else shows up etc. etc. You have to rearrange your life to teach someone who might be here today and gone tomorrow. You invest a lot of time, effort, being away from your family, possibly even fights (arguements between loved ones) and damage to your own body.

So in closing if you are studying in a backyard dojo and the instruction is good and valuable to you, than please consider the following.
1) Get down on your knees and thank God.

2) Thank the instructor for his time and effort.

3) Show up for class.

4) Help with the up keep of the dojo, if it needs repair offer to help pay or help repair it.

5) Take pride in what your learning and realize the value of it.

6) If the instructor will take money offer him/her something everyonce in a while. (I still have an instructor/student who whenever he sees me if I teach a class will slip me $5.00 when he shakes my hand after teaching. I never ask and I don't expect it, he just does it. It's thoughtful.) Or take them to lunch or dinner.

As an instructor what is important to me is to pass on what I've been taught to anyone I can. And I do, it's what keeps me young (not fit mind you but young at heart :uhyeah: ) I understand why it was important to my instructor that I show up to class. I saw it in GM Remy everytime there was a good crowd at one of his seminars, he was young out on the floor doing what he did best. It's what we all do, try to make our lives better/more enjoyable and others (our students) as well

Dang couldn't find the soap box smilie
:asian:
Mark

 

[lonecoyote]

You know, in getting back to this thread, I'm kind of saddened by the people who feel the lack of dedicated students. While I don't feel making people pay is a "trick" to make people think they're getting something of value I can't help but feel that it is a poor commentary on our materialistic society. Money for this, that and the other, bought and paid for. I always knew how lucky I was, having started at a commercial dojo, which wasn't bad, just wasn't as good as what I found later. No one commented on something I posted a while ago. Something like "there are more ways to pay than with money. I showed up every day, and worked hard because I knew it did him good too" and I cared. I was dedicated, practiced at home, and occasionally challenged him with questions. I paid for those lessons, With sweat, work, a little blood, and the miniscule fees were barely a part of it. I know he got something out of it too. So I know I paid. Didn't hardly have anything to do with money at all.