Yeah, I suppose it could be worse...they are lucky they're not getting any less than the 15. LOL.
Owning A School
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Yeah, I suppose it could be worse...they are lucky they're not getting any less than the 15. LOL.
I teach small children and am working up to a teen and adults class. I want to be a good example and am now seeking to repair some injuries I've had for a few years. I ignored them because I chose to take care of some pressing family matters and a couple of family members who needed me very badly.
Just teaching the children incites me to go over material every day - if not physically, then in my head.
But I don't make ANY money off my classes either.
As a parent I know most people get their children into sports to keep them occupied, but also to foster the personal qualities being part of a team sport or a long-term sports commitment affords the developing child. Teamwork, individual excellence, sportsmanship, comraderie, belonging, responsibility, etcetera.
Most parents bring their kids to martial arts specifically to learn discipline and respect, focus and to learn to defend themselves against a bully. These and so many other things can be found in TMA just by the nature of the training and I'd much rather have a hand in someone finding these qualities in themselves than turn out a ton of black belts.
As the children progress, I learn. One important thing I get from teaching these kids is the reminder that I don't know everything there is to know - not only about the art, but about anything, period.
I don't think I'll be able to make a grand living off of this, but what happens happens.
As to a part-timer training martial arts and whether they are a real martial artist or not ... I won't judge myself because I can only say I aspire to embody some of the qualities of a martial artist. People come to MA for so many different reasons, I must say that while constant attention to your dedication is necessary, I will not condemn those who don't make a living at martial arts because we walk around and see scenarios, possibilities, create and recreate a plan and a backup plan, etcetera even when we go to the grocery store. During the past few years as I've not been able to train much physically, I have been going through forms and material in my head every single day. It's what I would expect of anyone injured or ill who wants to keep going. It's what a black belt in our group did during his cancer and another during hers, I'm sure. It's what we all do.
Your martial arts garden is what you make it, how you grow it, how you feed it. Others can judge or pride-call or whatever they need to do to grow their garden ... but you don't have to swallow their zucchini.
Just teaching the children incites me to go over material every day - if not physically, then in my head.
But I don't make ANY money off my classes either.
As a parent I know most people get their children into sports to keep them occupied, but also to foster the personal qualities being part of a team sport or a long-term sports commitment affords the developing child. Teamwork, individual excellence, sportsmanship, comraderie, belonging, responsibility, etcetera.
Most parents bring their kids to martial arts specifically to learn discipline and respect, focus and to learn to defend themselves against a bully. These and so many other things can be found in TMA just by the nature of the training and I'd much rather have a hand in someone finding these qualities in themselves than turn out a ton of black belts.
As the children progress, I learn. One important thing I get from teaching these kids is the reminder that I don't know everything there is to know - not only about the art, but about anything, period.
I don't think I'll be able to make a grand living off of this, but what happens happens.
As to a part-timer training martial arts and whether they are a real martial artist or not ... I won't judge myself because I can only say I aspire to embody some of the qualities of a martial artist. People come to MA for so many different reasons, I must say that while constant attention to your dedication is necessary, I will not condemn those who don't make a living at martial arts because we walk around and see scenarios, possibilities, create and recreate a plan and a backup plan, etcetera even when we go to the grocery store. During the past few years as I've not been able to train much physically, I have been going through forms and material in my head every single day. It's what I would expect of anyone injured or ill who wants to keep going. It's what a black belt in our group did during his cancer and another during hers, I'm sure. It's what we all do.
Your martial arts garden is what you make it, how you grow it, how you feed it. Others can judge or pride-call or whatever they need to do to grow their garden ... but you don't have to swallow their zucchini.
searcher
Senior Master
I, technically, do not teach FT, as I am also a personal trainer. If it were not for the training money, in addition to the Karate school money, I would not be able to feed my family and I would also not be teaching at all. I train, in a different system than what I teach, every Friday night. I am learning a ton and I am not FT.
As has been stated, it is the quality of the instruction. Ex., Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, George Dillman, all teach FT and they suck. On the flipside, all instructors I have had are/were PT instructors and they are great.
PT=hobbyist? Shoot no. Never in a million years.
As has been stated, it is the quality of the instruction. Ex., Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, George Dillman, all teach FT and they suck. On the flipside, all instructors I have had are/were PT instructors and they are great.
PT=hobbyist? Shoot no. Never in a million years.
Xinglu
Black Belt
I keep reading this and thinking wow, these people ("anyone who didn't do a FT thing, was a hobbyist, and not a serious or dedicated martial artist") must not think much of the old timers. Professor Chow worked odd jobs (even as a janitor at one point if I remember correctly) for his main income. He taught at the rec center for very inexpensive. Many of the greats did not make their primary income from running a MA school. In fact many in the MA hall of fame did not teach "full time." And according to these people those greats are just hobbyists.
It makes me wonder if people like this even think before they open their mouth and spout off.
It makes me wonder if people like this even think before they open their mouth and spout off.
If one was to win the lottery or have a huge personal fortune you could happily teach martial arts full time without the worry of having to make a living. I would love to do that, I would take martial arts to areas that we have here where the children and youths need some focus, to women's groups, well basically anyone that wanted to learn and would get something out of it. Money wouldn't be a consideration, you could do it for love but thats only a pipe dream so unlikely to happen. So to all the hard working, selfless martial arts instructors out there who work full time and teach with love their arts in their 'spare' time, I salute you (and your patient families)!
Well I think there is another issue that comes up in this, that being that martial arts are a commercial enterprise as such its business. The people who teach part time, out of their garages and so on often are great martial artists but not so good businessmen. To run a FT Commercial school you have to be both a businessman and quality instructor, more so perhaps the former.
Thats where the issue comes up with a full time commercial school; how well you can manage a business. That includes drawing in more new students, keeping older students & offering a quality product in instruction. Thats often allot harder then many others might think...
Thats where the issue comes up with a full time commercial school; how well you can manage a business. That includes drawing in more new students, keeping older students & offering a quality product in instruction. Thats often allot harder then many others might think...
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
IMO, all things being equal, both teaching MA and spending more time training improve your own skills.
But all things aren't equal. For example, do any of you know FT MA school owners who don't have their own personal instructor and who don't train much or at all? Or MA instructors who teach predominately or exclusively "Little Ninjas" types of programs?
I know both of these types of full-timers. Their full-time or ownership status does not make them better than a dedicated part-timer.
But all things aren't equal. For example, do any of you know FT MA school owners who don't have their own personal instructor and who don't train much or at all? Or MA instructors who teach predominately or exclusively "Little Ninjas" types of programs?
I know both of these types of full-timers. Their full-time or ownership status does not make them better than a dedicated part-timer.
blindsage
Master of Arts
I'm just curious how anyone would equate teaching FT through a commercial business as being the rubric for high quality skill or not. There are plenty of people with a high level of skill who don't teach, or don't teach regularly. To me skill is skill and displays itself obviously when the moment calls for it. My instructor teaches, in a class, around 15 hours a week, but that is not all of his teaching time or training time, but how would you know the quality of his skill based on his in class time? You (nor I) don't know how much he trains independent of class. You (nor I) don't know how much one on one teaching he does. In what way, shape or form does the running of a FT commercial school provide useful evidence of the level of skill?
Such a narrow, one-dimensional perspective.
Such a narrow, one-dimensional perspective.
Great replies everyone. Its nice to see that I'm not the only one who thought the thread in the FMA section was a bit odd. My inst. taught for many years. Within the past year or so, he handed the school down to one of the other insts. there, so he could enjoy more of his time. Yet by doing this, it in no way, shape or form, effected his skill level. He teaches a few classes, once a week, in addition to my weekly private lesson with him.
Does this make him any less of a martial artist? Absolutely not. He is still dedicated to the art, still teaches and spreads it, and trains on his own.
Does this make him any less of a martial artist? Absolutely not. He is still dedicated to the art, still teaches and spreads it, and trains on his own.
Technical skill
Athletic skill
Teaching skill
All are different skills. Someone that doesn't teach probably won't have a lot of teaching skill. Of course there are also a lot of people teaching full time that aren't great teachers (not just in martial arts)
Time in doesn't make you good, regardless of which skill you are looking at. A person could train for years, but if they aren't training well they will still have a poor level of skill. Someone that comes in a trains for a few months, but trains really well could end up with a much higher skill level in a much shorter time.
But, if all things are equal, and a person is developing their skill (be it technical or teaching) and cares about what they are doing, the person with more experience will end up at a higher level.
Time in is not the only factor though, people can burn out or lose motivation and decline pretty quick.
Kwan Jang
Purple Belt
I can only speak from my own experience, but I know that owning and operating a full time school has made me a FAR better martial artist than I was when I taught "for the love of the art", part time at a community center. I do make a good living for myself and my family and I try to provide a good one for my staff as well. I have had my school for 17 years now, and while I admit there are highs and lows in motivation, I still have a great passion for what I do. BTW, when I was teaching at the rec center, I felt the way many of you do.
If I were to gain instant abundant wealth that I never had to work for (for example: win $100 million in a lottery), I may cut back my personal hours from 12 hours/day M-F and 6-8 hrs. on Sat. to about 4-5 hours/day, 4-5 days a week and take more vacations, but I would still do what I do. I would give my salary to my staff and hire a business manager to run that aspect, but I would still do the training and teaching. I would also use that wealth to run off more to train with my instructor, as well.
Unlike Tez though (who I stole the lottery theme from), I would actually raise the price of tuition at my school under that circumstance (at leasst for new students and Grandfather clause the existing ones). If I no longer had money as a concern, I would charge what I really thought our program was worth rather than trying to meet market demands. It's not about greed, but both perceived value and eliminating some of the people who aren't as commited to the training. On the money issue, even from a business standpoint, I believe that quality is vital. As an instructor the quality and integrity of our program is the quality of our students. And I don't believe that you can enjoy long term success in any business unless you consistantly put out a quality product.
I do know that my being a full time professional instructor has made me grow into being a far better martial artist than when I was a hobbyist. I DO know many great martial artists who were/are hobbyists though and I will not say that you can't be a very good martial artist if you are not full time. As Andrew Green pointed out, the far greater amount of time and focus has made me grow and break through both the comfort zones and hang ups I had prior to making this my career. At least for me, I doubt that would have happened, especially to this great an extent otherwise.
When one of my students voices an interest in becoming an instructor, I do bring up points that some poster have voiced. I do point out that it can turn a passion into a job and some ae best suited for doing it in much smaller doses. It really takes having both your head and your heart in the right place and we ALL know many examples of those who are full time that don't. Still, it's a greater oppurtunity for growth as both a teacher and martial artist IF that is what you put the majority of your focus and effort into.
P.S.- A full time instructor who is not a school owner may have the best of both worlds, since they have less hours to work and have a LOT less focus and stress about the business and more JUST on the teaching.
If I were to gain instant abundant wealth that I never had to work for (for example: win $100 million in a lottery), I may cut back my personal hours from 12 hours/day M-F and 6-8 hrs. on Sat. to about 4-5 hours/day, 4-5 days a week and take more vacations, but I would still do what I do. I would give my salary to my staff and hire a business manager to run that aspect, but I would still do the training and teaching. I would also use that wealth to run off more to train with my instructor, as well.
Unlike Tez though (who I stole the lottery theme from), I would actually raise the price of tuition at my school under that circumstance (at leasst for new students and Grandfather clause the existing ones). If I no longer had money as a concern, I would charge what I really thought our program was worth rather than trying to meet market demands. It's not about greed, but both perceived value and eliminating some of the people who aren't as commited to the training. On the money issue, even from a business standpoint, I believe that quality is vital. As an instructor the quality and integrity of our program is the quality of our students. And I don't believe that you can enjoy long term success in any business unless you consistantly put out a quality product.
I do know that my being a full time professional instructor has made me grow into being a far better martial artist than when I was a hobbyist. I DO know many great martial artists who were/are hobbyists though and I will not say that you can't be a very good martial artist if you are not full time. As Andrew Green pointed out, the far greater amount of time and focus has made me grow and break through both the comfort zones and hang ups I had prior to making this my career. At least for me, I doubt that would have happened, especially to this great an extent otherwise.
When one of my students voices an interest in becoming an instructor, I do bring up points that some poster have voiced. I do point out that it can turn a passion into a job and some ae best suited for doing it in much smaller doses. It really takes having both your head and your heart in the right place and we ALL know many examples of those who are full time that don't. Still, it's a greater oppurtunity for growth as both a teacher and martial artist IF that is what you put the majority of your focus and effort into.
P.S.- A full time instructor who is not a school owner may have the best of both worlds, since they have less hours to work and have a LOT less focus and stress about the business and more JUST on the teaching.
