Aikido.. The reality?

Hanzou

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,

so do you have any proof that it has evolved in the last 12 months to support your statement that evolution is continual

I'm not really intrested in your fortune telling skills

Again, look at MMA and Bjj in 1993 and look at MMA and Bjj today. There's a clear evolution from point A to point B, and nothing indicates that that evolution has stopped.
 

jobo

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Again, look at MMA and Bjj in 1993 and look at MMA and Bjj today. There's a clear evolution from point A to point B, and nothing indicates that that evolution has stopped.
nothing indicates its continued either, in fact there is a complete lack of indicators in any direction

but if your changing your statement from, " evolution is continual " to I think it maybe evolving but there is no evidence that this is so" then that your opinion and we can proceed on that basis
 

Hanzou

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nothing indicates its continued either, in fact there is a complete lack of indicators in any direction

but if your changing your statement from, " evolution is continual " to I think it maybe evolving but there is no evidence that this is so" then that your opinion and we can proceed on that basis

Uh, the indication that it's continuing is because it's been evolving for 30 years and nothing indicates that that evolution has stopped taking place. I mean in all seriousness, why would MMA and BJJ suddenly stop evolving after they've been clearly evolving for decades? What cataclysmic event would cause that to happen?

You're arguing for the sake of arguing here, and it's downright silly.
 

jobo

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Uh, why would MMA and BJJ suddenly stop evolving after they've been clearly evolving for decades? What cataclysmic event would cause that to happen?

You're arguing for the sake of arguing here, and it's downright silly.
it's not my responsibility to find a reason why its stopped, it's yours to show it has continued,

which it seems you cant do
 

Hanzou

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it's not my responsibility to find a reason why its stopped, it's yours to show it has continued,

which it seems you cant do

Uh, I did find evidence to show that it has continued; Again, it's been clearly evolving for 30 years and the forces that push that evolution are still in place (developments in wrestling, sport BJJ, striking, etc that in turn effect MMA).

If your argument is that it is no longer evolving, please find evidence to support that statement. Putting up a small, arbitrary time frame simply doesn't cut the mustard.
 

jobo

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Uh, I did find evidence to show that it has continued; Again, it's been clearly evolving for 30 years and the forces that push that evolution are still in place (developments in wrestling, sport BJJ, striking, etc that in turn effect MMA).

If your argument is that it is no longer evolving, please find evidence to support that statement. Putting up a small, arbitrary time frame simply doesn't cut the mustard.
it's not my problem to disprove your rash statements,my argument is your presenting opinions as facts

that it has evolved, does not support your contention, that not only is it still evolving, it's doing so continually.

which in its self is a problem, as nothing evolves continually, even if it was evolving at all, but we we save that for the unlikely event that you show that evolution is still occurring
 

Hanzou

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it's not my problem to disprove your rash statements,my argument is your presenting opinions as facts

So in short you have no evidence to show that MMA/Bjj has stopped evolving.

Cool, thanks for your participation.
 

jobo

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So in short you have no evidence to show that MMA/Bjj has stopped evolving.

Cool, thanks for your participation.
why is it my job to disprove your opinions,,

its your to prove them, this is the same nonsence the religious trot out where they require you to prove there is no god

if what you said was factually correct then you can prove it so, if you cant it's an opinion, you cant turn an opinion into a fact by giving me more opinions
 

Hanzou

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why is it my job to disprove your opinions,,

its your to prove them, this is the same nonsence the religious trot out where they require you to prove there is no god

if what you said was factually correct then you can prove it so, if you cant it's an opinion, you cant turn an opinion into a fact by giving me more opinions

This just shows that you're not reading the responses. I've provided proof about three times now. Here it is one more time;

MMA/Bjj has clearly evolved over the last 30 years, and since the forces that caused that evolution are still in place, there's no reason to believe that that evolution isn't continuing.

Now, if you disagree with that statement, it IS your job to disprove it. That's how basic logic and argumentation works.
 

jobo

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This just shows that you're not reading the responses. I've provided proof about three times now. Here it is one more time;

MMA/Bjj has clearly evolved over the last 30 years, and since the forces that caused that evolution are still in place, there's no reason to believe that that evolution isn't continuing.

Now, if you disagree with that statement, it IS your job to disprove it. That's how basic logic and argumentation works.
your not following this are you, I've not disagreed with that statement, I havent disagreed with any of your statements

I've asked to to prove that mma is CONTINUALLY evolving, what it may or may not have done over the last ten years, is not proof that it not only still is, but is doing so continually
 

Hanzou

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your not following this are you, I've not disagreed with that statement, I havent disagreed with any of your statements

I've asked to to prove that mma is CONTINUALLY evolving, what it may or may not have done over the last ten years, is not proof that it not only still is, but is doing so continually

Read (slowly) the second half of the third sentence in my response.
 

jobo

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Read (slowly) the second half of the third sentence in my response.
you've got no reason to believe it stopped

but that's your opinion, which is totally irelivant to if it happens to be true or not.

to be clear, I've not asked for your opinions, as entertaining as they are, I've asked for proof that it's a a statement of fact

you seem to be having a great deal of trouble separating, fact and opinion, facts are things which are independently verifiable, that means independent of your opinions
 

Hanzou

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you've got no reason to believe it stopped

but that's your opinion, which is totally irelivant to if it happens to be true or not.

to be clear, I've not asked for your opinions, as entertaining as they are, I've asked for proof that it's a a statement of fact

you seem to be having a great deal of trouble separating, fact and opinion, facts are things which are independently verifiable, that means independent of your opinions

MMA/BJJ evolving over the last 30 years isn't an opinion.
The forces that caused that evolution still being in effect is also not an opinion.

I'm starting to believe that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion....
 

Urban Trekker

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look at hapkido. And they are the masters of the compliant demo at 100%

Still a demo though.
Yep. I actually signed up for hapkido many years ago, going in thinking it was a hybrid art. Did it for about three months, until I realized that hapkido is to aikido what tang soo do and soo bahk are to karate: the same damn thing with a Korean spin on it.

One thing I realized that was never taken into account was the pain threshold of the attacker, and the very wrong assumption that the attacker is actually going to move in the same direction that you move him in over to avoid physical pain and/or the fact that the attacker still has three other limbs that they can and will use while you're trying to manipulate the fourth.

When I look at BJJ, it appears that they do consider all of these things.
 

Hanzou

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Yep. I actually signed up for hapkido many years ago, going in thinking it was a hybrid art. Did it for about three months, until I realized that hapkido is to aikido what tang soo do and soo bahk are to karate: the same damn thing with a Korean spin on it.

One thing I realized that was never taken into account was the pain threshold of the attacker, and the very wrong assumption that the attacker is actually going to move in the same direction that you move him in over to avoid physical pain and/or the fact that the attacker still has three other limbs that they can and will use while you're trying to manipulate the fourth.

When I look at BJJ, it appears that they do consider all of these things.

Techniques and submissions based on the supposed pain that your attacker will be in, are always highly dubious. I once saw a "Combat Hapkido" vid where they were attempting to escape Guard by smashing the testicles of the person holding them in place. While hilarious, it's also not a good way to teach someone how to escape the Guard. You also really shouldn't be wasting time teaching someone how to escape the Guard in self defense anyway.
 

jobo

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MMA/BJJ evolving over the last 30 years isn't an opinion.
The forces that caused that evolution still being in effect is also not an opinion.

I'm starting to believe that you don't know the difference between a fact and an opinion....
mma continuously evolving now i
most certainly is, and that the statement I've asked you to prove, it's like your trying to steer away from that poinI.

ok let's take your now preferred statement, prove that forces cause evolution
 

Urban Trekker

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Techniques and submissions based on the supposed pain that your attacker will be in, are always highly dubious. I once saw a "Combat Hapkido" vid where they were attempting to escape Guard by smashing the testicles of the person holding them in place. While hilarious, it's also not a good way to teach someone how to escape the Guard. You also really shouldn't be wasting time teaching someone how to escape the Guard in self defense anyway.

Exactly. There's the old saying that "the best defense is a strong offense." While not everyone subscribes to that, the vast majority of untrained fighters do. This is why we always see videos of them punching each other in the face, with neither of them even trying to duck or block the other's punches. They're basically in berserk mode, which aikido/hapkido isn't equipped to handle.
 

Hanzou

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mma continuously evolving now i
most certainly is, and that the statement I've asked you to prove, it's like your trying to steer away from that poinI.

ok let's take your now preferred statement, prove that forces cause evolution

I'm sorry, but your quote simply doesn't make sense. Maybe someone can translate for me....
 

MadMartigan

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