Aikido and Law Enforcement

Spinedoc

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Interesting topic…..

I was having a good discussion with an old friend about Aikido, and it's effectiveness, and he laughed. He is a senior agent with the FBI and has been with them for almost 20 years. He remarked that "I don't know how you can consider it 'ineffective' considering so many police departments teach a component of Aikido with entire courses designed such as those by Koga for specific police training. Hell, the Tokyo police have a dedicated 11 month program in Yoshinkan Aikido called Senshusei. Granted many of these programs also mix in Judo, Krav Maga, and even BJJ to a smaller degree, however, Aikido remains one of the primary arts taught. We wouldn't do that if it didn't work".

He went on to acknowledge that Aikido didn't work in every scenario, but that these courses were taught for 2 reasons. "One, they are effective, and while they don't make someone a 'master' of aikido, they do teach a variety of techniques perfect for most police encounters. Two, police administrators tend to love Aikido because of the emphasis on not harming the attacker….this leads to fewer lawsuits (eye roll)".

He finally remarked that Aikido worked well "during arresting techniques, along with other arts like Aikijujutsu, Judo, and Hapkido that can also be useful. BJJ, I don't personally feel is as helpful for most law enforcement situations, it might be helpful to have at least a little understanding of it, but I cannot think of any police officer that would EVER intentionally go down to the ground unless there were no other options, this isn't a cage (snickers).."

I've known him since undergrad 20 years ago. He's always been bright, and has been with federal law enforcement for a long time.

I thought his insight was interesting. NOW, I was in the military many years ago, but have never worked in law enforcement.

I thought this might make for an interesting, stimulating conversation. In the immortal words of Picard….."ENGAGE".
 

Kenpoguy123

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Aikido probably would come in handy for the police since they can't actually punch a guy they're arresting so they'd need to use restraining techniques such as locks and pins. But saying that aikido isn't all their training they'll be trained in other things as well ways to arrest and tackle a suspect that are allowed. My instructor is a police officer and he says they are taught more about how to control a situation that how to actually fight.

But I guess some bits of aikido would work for police officers but It also depends on how they're trained in it
 

punisher73

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Much will depend on the person and how they have trained their art and understanding how to properly apply it and knowing situations where it isn't strong.

I remember reading a story of an old Japanese Aikido master and his school being challenged by a boxer. One of the other students fought him and was soundly defeated because he was trying to redirect the punches as they came in. The boxer still wanted to fight the instructor and he went next. He used Irimi and very quickly beat the boxer. The master understood his art's strengths and weaknesses and didn't try to apply techniques in a situation that they weren't designed for.

Another quote from an aikido master. A student said that "Aikido doesn't work". The instructor replied "Your Aikido may not work. Mine works just fine".

I have met people of all arts that could make it work for themselves in situations "on the street", and people of various arts that are supposed to be so good that didn't do too well in situations.

All that being said, many of the restraint techniques of Aikido do work very well in restraining a suspect and are used by various agencies.
 

hoshin1600

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Let's make sure we are comparing apples to apples. First and most important is that law enforcement officers are not in a street fight, so the comparison of "effective" is relative to the situation. An officer is stepping into a situation and needs to assert controll. This is drastically different than self defense situations.
Second point, aikido has no exclusive property rights to joint locks. Many styles have them. So the question is,,,are the joint locks effective on there own merit or does the aiki give exclusivity of making something work for law enforcement? I will assume they are being taught the basic 3 or 4 wrist locks and never learn anything that resembles aikido.
Now in Japan ,,,that is something all together different.
 

Steve

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I have to say, this thread seems a lot like a petty and not so subtle slam against bjj.
 

drop bear

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Akido or at least the standing restraints shown to me are akward as all get out to put on.

You can. Mabye put them on if you have dominant wrestling. But otherwise you are using low percentage wristlocks against high percentage being punched in the face.
 

ballen0351

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I have to say, this thread seems a lot like a petty and not so subtle slam against bjj.
so the opposite of 90% of the other threads around here lately where certain BJJ fanboys run into all other style threads telling them they are crap and BJJ is the only real MA......
 
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ballen0351

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Akido or at least the standing restraints shown to me are akward as all get out to put on.

You can. Mabye put them on if you have dominant wrestling. But otherwise you are using low percentage wristlocks against high percentage being punched in the face.
have you ever had someone trained in Aikido use them in you? I thought the same thing until I went to a dojo and asked if I could resist while the instructor tried Aikido techniques on me. Well it hurt and I didn't want to resist anymore. Now most of the lower level students couldnt get the techniques in fast enough to work effectively yet But the higher ranks could.
 

Steve

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so the opposite of 90% of the other threads around here lately......
first, I think you're exaggerating just a bit. Second, makes it okay exactly how?

We're Hanzou to post this same, completely unsubstantiated anecdote, swapping only BJJ for aikido, you and several other posters, who mostly don't train in either art, would raise all kinds of hell.

It's a bunch of petty ********. In my opinion.
 

ballen0351

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first, I think you're exaggerating just a bit. Second, makes it okay exactly how?

We're Hanzou to post this same, completely unsubstantiated anecdote, swapping only BJJ for aikido, you and several other posters, who mostly don't train in either art, would raise all kinds of hell.

It's a bunch of petty ********. In my opinion.
so Don't click on it. If the mods allow BJJ guys to run around here like thugs then so be it take your medicine. Besides the only knock on BJJ I saw was it wasn't great for Police work.....I agree.
 
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Spinedoc

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Steve, I never meant any offense, and certainly did not intend to "slam" BJJ. I'm actually taking BJJ now in addition to Aikido, and find the combination fun and complementary. I also did not state that Aikido is effective in all situations, but rather that law enforcement seems to prefer it. This should not be taken as meaning the same for all self defense situations! I also posted this, as I would love to have other law enforcement folks on here chime in. I don't know if my friends opinion is common in law enforcement or not? BJJ has its uses, and is perfect for many situations, but like all arts, it is not perfect for every situation!!!!
 

Hanzou

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so Don't click on it. If the mods allow BJJ guys to run around here like thugs then so be it take your medicine. Besides the only knock on BJJ I saw was it wasn't great for Police work.....I agree.

Someone's a little over-sensitive.....
 

Steve

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Steve, I never meant any offense, and certainly did not intend to "slam" BJJ. I'm actually taking BJJ now in addition to Aikido, and find the combination fun and complementary. I also did not state that Aikido is effective in all situations, but rather that law enforcement seems to prefer it. This should not be taken as meaning the same for all self defense situations! I also posted this, as I would love to have other law enforcement folks on here chime in. I don't know if my friends opinion is common in law enforcement or not? BJJ has its uses, and is perfect for many situations, but like all arts, it is not perfect for every situation!!!!
i honestly don't see how it could be interpreted as other than a love fest for aikido and an opportunity to bash BJJ, regardless of what you intended. The unsubstantiated anecdote where some anonymous authority opines that aikido is good and BJJ is bad seems like a terrible way to start a balanced discussion.

I'd also say that regardless of what your "friend" says, some LEO must think it's useful. At least a quarter of the people I know who train in BJJ work in law enforcement.

I can't speak to aikido, as I don't train in it.
 

drop bear

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have you ever had someone trained in Aikido use them in you? I thought the same thing until I went to a dojo and asked if I could resist while the instructor tried Aikido techniques on me. Well it hurt and I didn't want to resist anymore. Now most of the lower level students couldnt get the techniques in fast enough to work effectively yet But the higher ranks could.

I did once back in the day. I was told to grab the guys wrist. And being the noob that I was hung on for dear life. After a while he told me to let go and said I wasn't suited to akido.
 

Steve

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so Don't click on it. If the mods allow BJJ guys to run around here like thugs then so be it take your medicine. Besides the only knock on BJJ I saw was it wasn't great for Police work.....I agree.
Tit for tat, or taking medicine as you say, isn't a great foundation for a discussion. Exactly my point. I appreciate your honesty.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Steve-:Love fest for Aikido-it absolutely is. As a bash on BJJ i didn't see that at all until reading you comment, and even then it seems like a stretch. That comment was definitely a bash on BJJ (and I read it more as a joke than an actual bashing) , but the rest of his post wasn't, and neither were any of the other comments before it. I get where you're coming from..any time I see someone post about SKK I assume it's a bash nowadays, but this time I don't think it was.
 

drop bear

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Complimentary is the key. You can't catch punches out of mid air and an arm won't isolate itself so you need a method to do this before you can really apply akido. I like clinch work and arm drags. Which give me time to get the wrist or amlock on.
 

kuniggety

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What I find funny about this is that the wrist locks employed in aikido are perfectly legal/allowed in BJJ. Once upon a time, I studied aikido for a bit... The Aikikai flavor. It's good for what it is... Practicing wrist locks and falling over and over and over. A BJJ guy can really do the same thing to control someone but they're prepared to defend themselves in a wider range of situations (i.e. Grappling range from standing to the takedown to the ground).
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I remember reading a story of an old Japanese Aikido master and his school being challenged by a boxer. One of the other students fought him and was soundly defeated because he was trying to redirect the punches as they came in. The boxer still wanted to fight the instructor and he went next. He used Irimi and very quickly beat the boxer. The master understood his art's strengths and weaknesses and didn't try to apply techniques in a situation that they weren't designed for.
With this story, you have to remember that it's possible another boxer who was better than the first could beat the Aikido Master, or the situation could be reversed: Aikido practitioner beats boxer easily, goes to fight boxers coach and loses quickly. A member of any art has the possibility of being beaten by a member of another art if that person is a better practitioner and/or fighter.
 
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