BJJ Teacher Roy Dean on Aikido....

[Spinedoc]

I don't think Hanzou is bashing Aikido but I do think the OP is bashing Judo instead.

I don't recall saying that????

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't recall saying that????

May be you didn't say that but that was what you have "quoted" in your 1st post,

And so what was that? Well, a lot of it is technological superiority. I’m not saying the techniques of Aikido are superior to those of Judo. I’m saying that he was using a technology, basically a form of standing grappling. As soon as somebody goes in to reach for you, you blend with it. In Judo, you just grab each other and then you begin. But because he was working at a different range of motion, but really no different than Royce Gracie in the first couple UFCs. Because he was working in that altered range of combat that the Judo guy wasn’t familiar with, he had, clearly, the upper hand.

So, I think that goes a long way in explaining a lot of the stories of Aikido being able to best Judo in a few challenge matches in the early days of the art.

 

[ballen0351]

May be you didn't say that but that was what you have "quoted" in your 1st post,

that is allowed here. there is only 1 style that's off limits

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Too much to quote since I finally braced myself to read this thread, but the major argument Hanzou is making is that Aikido by itself does not work (even if he is saying it in a very abrasive and style-bashing way), which is why it sucks. However, from what I know of Aikido, which admittedly isn't much, it's not supposed to be something that works purely on its own. It's supposed to be incorporated into another art, to give you a very specific edge over that art.
Any instance where someone trained in multiple grappling arts, including Aikido, and does well, is actually reinforcing that Aikido is successful rather than giving people a way to dismiss the style.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Within that video, yeah it does.

Only if you are not interested in making logical arguments. This is an example of a hasty generalization.

Instead of making excuses for the Aikidoka getting beaten, maybe we could discuss why a 4th dan in Aikido got beaten so easily by a mediocre grappler?

Maybe you should actually read the video description before you decide ig the grappler is mediocre or not.
"Grandmaster of Turkish Submission Wrestling and head of the Marital Kinetics Academy, Levent Altunbas,"

This video would seem to show that BJJ is just as inept against Turkish Submission Wresltling as Aikido is:

But hey show me a video of a BJJ practitioner defeating a Turkish Submission Wrestler and we will all be happy.

 

[RTKDCMB]

"the rest of the grappling community at large" has basically already decided what they want to believe and is now wading hip deep in a sea of Confirmation Bias.

Even when I have showed hi exactly what he asked for (Aikido trained in a live manner in the Steven Segal Black belt test video) he still finds a way to claim it isn't evidence of anything (reminds me of another group that likes to shift the goal posts whenever they are shown evidence).

 

[Jenna]

I have no clue nor can determine what this thread pertains to???

I should really like to know what it would benefit me -or you MMA practitioners- if I were to get in a ring and try to do nothing except my Aikido?

I wish to ask those of you that compete in MMA, if I were to take this step above and get beaten in that MMA bout staying strictly with my own art Aikido, what would it either suggest or proove 1.to you, and 2.to me?? thank you xx

 

[RTKDCMB]

If you can't stop a takedown in a dojo, you're probably not going to stop a takedown in the streets either.

If you can't perform a takedown in a dojo, using Judo, on a Tai chi practitioner you're probably not going to be able to perform a takedown in the streets either:

With the right amount of bias you can draw just about any conclusion you want from videos

 

[Hanzou]

Only if you are not interested in making logical arguments. This is an example of a hasty generalization.

Maybe you should actually read the video description before you decide ig the grappler is mediocre or not.
"Grandmaster of Turkish Submission Wrestling and head of the Marital Kinetics Academy, Levent Altunbas,"

This video would seem to show that BJJ is just as inept against Turkish Submission Wresltling as Aikido is:

But hey show me a video of a BJJ practitioner defeating a Turkish Submission Wrestler and we will all be happy.

Hilarious. All you need to do is check out the results from the AFBJJ panics to see that Al-Ziani won the 17 yo novice (read: White belt) division.

Male Novice 17 YO 61kg Nogi

A. Al Zaini (544) martial kinetics

Welcome to AFBJJ

:golf clap:

A good accomplishment to be sure, but definitely not in the same league as what occurred at that Aikido academy. It doesn't help that it appears that there were only 2 people in his division, so he only had to beat that one guy to get "gold".

Anyway, there's a big difference between beating a white belt at Bjj and a 4th degree black belt in Aikido, wouldn't you agree?

Now, if Al-Ziani or Martial Kinetics as a whole were winning within the upper belt categories, or we had a video of the head of Martial Kinetics beating a Bjj black belt in his own gym, we'd have something to discuss here.

Unfortunately, it would appear that after winning gold (as a novice white belt) in 2011, neither he nor Martial Kinetics Academy ever returned to that tournament.

 

[Hanzou]

I have no clue nor can determine what this thread pertains to???

I should really like to know what it would benefit me -or you MMA practitioners- if I were to get in a ring and try to do nothing except my Aikido?

I wish to ask those of you that compete in MMA, if I were to take this step above and get beaten in that MMA bout staying strictly with my own art Aikido, what would it either suggest or proove 1.to you, and 2.to me?? thank you xx

It depends on how badly you get beaten. If you hold your own, there's no problem. If you get utterly obliterated like that 4th degree BB Aikidoka did in that video then there's a significant issue that you should address in your training.

And keep in mind, you don't need to compete in some MMA tournament. Just head over to a MMA gym and spar with some people and see how what you do stacks up with what they're doing. For example, whenever I get the chance I accompany a friend who teaches grappling at a MMA gym, and I spar with those guys utilizing primarily my Bjj skills.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Hilarious. All you need to do is check out the results from the AFBJJ panics to see that Al-Ziani won the 17 yo novice (read: White belt) division.

So according to you you can't base an argument from a single short YouTube video, unless it is a BJJ/Judo/other grappling art practitioner who is doing the winning?

So you have to look up and search through dozens of documents to disprove the ineffectiveness of BJJ but for Aikido it only takes an 86 second video.

Interesting.

A good accomplishment to be sure, but definitely not in the same league as what occurred at that Aikido academy.

You are right it is not in the same league, one was a competition with full resistance and the other a friendly demonstration by a visiting instructor.

 

[Hanzou]

If you can't perform a takedown in a dojo, using Judo, on a Tai chi practitioner you're probably not going to be able to perform a takedown in the streets either:

With the right amount of bias you can draw just about any conclusion you want from videos

You're kidding right? That video was about as real as Santa Claus.

 

[Hanzou]

So according to you you can't base an argument from a single short YouTube video, unless it is a BJJ/Judo/other grappling art practitioner who is doing the winning?

Wouldn't you agree that a 4th dan BB in Aikido is far more proficient in their art than a 17 year old white belt?

I would certainly hope so.

So you have to look up and search through dozens of documents to disprove the ineffectiveness of BJJ but for Aikido it only takes an 86 second video.

Interesting.

LoL dozens of documents? I just had to look up the results of 2011 AFBJJ pan pacs.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Wouldn't you agree that a 4th dan BB in Aikido is far more proficient in their art than a 17 year old white belt?

I would certainly hope so.

On the first video you have a grand master and head of the school versus a 4th Dan. In the Pan Pacs you have two beginners.

LoL dozens of documents? I just had to look up the results of 2011 AFBJJ pan pacs.

There are 42 documents in that link, that is at least 3 dozens.

 

[RTKDCMB]

You're kidding right? That video was about as real as Santa Claus.

Which reinforces my point "With the right amount of bias you can draw just about any conclusion you want from videos".

 

[Hanzou]

On the first video you have a grand master and head of the school versus a 4th Dan. In the Pan Pacs you have two beginners.

And again, two adult "masters" going at it is more indicative of the representative arts than two adolescent novices going at it.

If the head of Martial Kinetics wishes to really make waves, he can visit pretty much any Bjj school he wants, bring along a video crew and grapple with a Bjj black belt.

There's a very good reason why he hasn't done that.

There are 42 documents in that link, that is at least 3 dozens.

Uh, you just click the 2011 AFBJJ results, and scroll down until you find his name.

Which reinforces my point "With the right amount of bias you can draw just about any conclusion you want from videos".

Except you can watch that video and see very clearly that the Judoka wasn't really trying to throw the Tai Chi practitioner.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Except you can watch that video and see very clearly that the Judoka wasn't really trying to throw the Tai Chi practitioner.

And you can clearly see in the other video that the Aikido 4th dan wasn't really trying to resist the Turkish Wrestler.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Uh, you just click the 2011 AFBJJ results, and scroll down until you find his name.

And then look through the 42 documents to find it.

 

[RTKDCMB]

If the head of Martial Kinetics wishes to really make waves, he can visit pretty much any Bjj school he wants, bring along a video crew and grapple with a Bjj black belt.

There's a very good reason why he hasn't done that.

And you think you know what that reason is.

 

[Hanzou]

And you can clearly see in the other video that the Aikido 4th dan wasn't really trying to resist the Turkish Wrestler.

If he wasn't resisting, the wrestler wouldn't have failed at the initial takedown.

Again, stop making excuses for the Aikidoka's failure.

And you think you know what that reason is.

Yeah, he didn't want to get smashed while he was trying to promote his submission style.

Whenever you're trying to promote a new grappling system there's a ceiling that you have to breach. When Josh Barnett was trying to promote catch wrestling, he entered Metamoris and defeated top Bjj exponents in order to legitimize catch. Eddie Bravo did the same thing in order to push 10th Planet JJ. This guy wasn't willing to do that, so that's why his little band of turkish submission wrestlers dried up on a vine.