Your Fighting Tip

[Touch Of Death]

Need to see a demo. That is just not making sense to me. And yeah, try 240. I did a shote (heel palm) strike to the chest on a new student last night, not meaning to put anything at all on it, but I dropped my weight as the palm settled onto his chest. It was actually delivered in slow motion, gently. He flew about four feet and seemed somewhat surprised when he got up. Purely accidental, I don't go around beating up new students.

But I can't picture turning my elbows out, palms into my own chest (fingers down is the only way I can manage it) and then striking like that. Looks like I have two gigantic bosoms, and no idea how to put that to use other than to wave 'em around.

Ok you are losing me here. just from where you are sitting... take the back of your hand and put it on your opposite chest muscle; now, pick up the elbow.... you will notice the weapon turns in and not out.
Sean

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I mean, it sounds good and all, but I've never seen anyone able to do it against anyone but a scrub.

I'm sure it's hard to do if the puncher is very fast with the retraction, but I seem to be able to do it in relatively basic exercises when we speed it up. I mean, if I can block a punch, I can certainly apply a hand to the same attacking hand. It's the same principle. Are you saying that real punches are so fast that they can't be blocked?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm sure it's hard to do if the puncher is very fast with the retraction, but I seem to be able to do it in relatively basic exercises when we speed it up. I mean, if I can block a punch, I can certainly apply a hand to the same attacking hand. It's the same principle. Are you saying that real punches are so fast that they can't be blocked?

Real punches are pretty flippin fast, but we ain't all fighting Pacquiao.
Sean

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Ok you are losing me here. just from where you are sitting... take the back of your hand and put it on your opposite chest muscle; now, pick up the elbow.... you will notice the weapon turns in and not out.
Sean

I absolutely cannot put the back of my hand flush on my pectoral muscle without lifting the elbow at the exact same time. And once I do that, it looks like I have two duck wings sticking out the front of me.

Are you certain you mean the back of the hand? I simply can't do it easily and see no striking power to be gained by trying. Do you perhaps mean the palm of the hand? That, I can put flush against my chest with my elbow down and THEN raise my elbow. I'm lost here. I simply cannot fathom putting the back of my hand against my chest for any reason whatsoever, let alone to strike with. Again, can you demo it somehow? Is there a video out there of someone doing this? Elbow strikes I get, but not as described.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Real punches are pretty flippin fast, but we ain't all fighting Pacquiao.
Sean

That being my point. If I can get a block up in front of a punch, I can slap or knuckle the punch; the movement and speed required are the same. So I guess if someone is saying it's not possible to slap down a punch, they are also saying punches cannot be blocked. Which seems somewhat not correct.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I absolutely cannot put the back of my hand flush on my pectoral muscle without lifting the elbow at the exact same time. And once I do that, it looks like I have two duck wings sticking out the front of me.

Are you certain you mean the back of the hand? I simply can't do it easily and see no striking power to be gained by trying. Do you perhaps mean the palm of the hand? That, I can put flush against my chest with my elbow down and THEN raise my elbow. I'm lost here. I simply cannot fathom putting the back of my hand against my chest for any reason whatsoever, let alone to strike with. Again, can you demo it somehow? Is there a video out there of someone doing this? Elbow strikes I get, but not as described.

The striking power comes from stepping through. the job your arm has is to position and align. I can't do it at the same time either. LOL Imagine you are a car, and your elbow is a battering ram. You don't need a propulsion system for the battering ram if you get the car up to speed.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That being my point. If I can get a block up in front of a punch, I can slap or knuckle the punch; the movement and speed required are the same. So I guess if someone is saying it's not possible to slap down a punch, they are also saying punches cannot be blocked. Which seems somewhat not correct.

Go with your gut on this one, and go against your sensibilities with the elbow. Trust me!

 

[Touch Of Death]

. Here is an example of a very badly done inward elbow. But it is sort of what I am describing.
Sean

 

[Bill Mattocks]

. Here is an example of a very badly done inward elbow. But it is sort of what I am describing.
Sean

OK, I get that. But the back of my hand cannot touch my chest if I do that move. Even trying makes my wrist hurt and makes me look like I'm pretending to be physically disabled. When we deliver an elbow like that, it's either delivered like an uppercut, or the hand reaches over the shoulder, palm down, as the elbow is delivered. If you reach over and grab your left shoulder with your right hand, that's the position (only we don't grab our own shoulder of course). This also allows us to complete a forward elbow strike with a backward elbow strike. Two for the price of one.

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, I get that. But the back of my hand cannot touch my chest if I do that move. Even trying makes my wrist hurt and makes me look like I'm pretending to be physically disabled. When we deliver an elbow like that, it's either delivered like an uppercut, or the hand reaches over the shoulder, palm down, as the elbow is delivered. If you reach over and grab your left shoulder with your right hand, that's the position (only we don't grab our own shoulder of course). This also allows us to complete a forward elbow strike with a backward elbow strike. Two for the price of one.

If it looks retarded, then you are doing it right. LOL and from that position you can also throw a BK.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK, I get that. But the back of my hand cannot touch my chest if I do that move. Even trying makes my wrist hurt and makes me look like I'm pretending to be physically disabled. When we deliver an elbow like that, it's either delivered like an uppercut, or the hand reaches over the shoulder, palm down, as the elbow is delivered. If you reach over and grab your left shoulder with your right hand, that's the position (only we don't grab our own shoulder of course). This also allows us to complete a forward elbow strike with a backward elbow strike. Two for the price of one.

This guy is better.

 

[WC_lun]

Anything that puts you in an inferior position if not landed should be seriously second guessed in use for self defense. Techniques that administer pain only should not be relied on in a self defense situations. They're great if your friend is being a knucklehead and you just want to give him something to think about. Not so great versus someone really intending you harm.

Think realistically. If you have someone striking at you seriously hard, are you going to really use the time frame given to apply a hard to use pain only technique or are you going to use a higher percentage technique that will effect the attacker's ability to continue his attack?

Good self defense training is about stacking the deck in your favor as much as possible. That means doing things that give you the advantage in timing, space, structure, applied force, etc. and not giving up that advantage. This does not apply to anyone in particular, but I see a lot of so called self defense that trades the advantage back and forth or worse, gives it away needlessly.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Anything that puts you in an inferior position if not landed should be seriously second guessed in use for self defense. Techniques that administer pain only should not be relied on in a self defense situations. They're great if your friend is being a knucklehead and you just want to give him something to think about. Not so great versus someone really intending you harm.

Think realistically. If you have someone striking at you seriously hard, are you going to really use the time frame given to apply a hard to use pain only technique or are you going to use a higher percentage technique that will effect the attacker's ability to continue his attack?

Good self defense training is about stacking the deck in your favor as much as possible. That means doing things that give you the advantage in timing, space, structure, applied force, etc. and not giving up that advantage. This does not apply to anyone in particular, but I see a lot of so called self defense that trades the advantage back and forth or worse, gives it away needlessly.

Your moves only need to make an impression to screw up his timing.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Anything that puts you in an inferior position if not landed should be seriously second guessed in use for self defense. Techniques that administer pain only should not be relied on in a self defense situations. They're great if your friend is being a knucklehead and you just want to give him something to think about. Not so great versus someone really intending you harm.

Think realistically. If you have someone striking at you seriously hard, are you going to really use the time frame given to apply a hard to use pain only technique or are you going to use a higher percentage technique that will effect the attacker's ability to continue his attack?

Good self defense training is about stacking the deck in your favor as much as possible. That means doing things that give you the advantage in timing, space, structure, applied force, etc. and not giving up that advantage. This does not apply to anyone in particular, but I see a lot of so called self defense that trades the advantage back and forth or worse, gives it away needlessly.

You have to understand the nature of the attack. If all attacks were the same, I would not bother with self-defense techniques, I'd shoot everyone who raised a hand to me. I'm not saying you can always divine the intent of the person attacking but there are lots of times you might not want to, say, shatter a knee, collapse a pelvis, or crush a windpipe. Pain techniques are great if you have a situation which calls for them. But the person being attacked has to have some ability to determine when that is and when it is not time to use them.

 

[Buka]

If I may be allowed a second suggestion. Since we are dealing in generalization here, as opposed to specifics - What I was taught a long time ago and has always worked well for us in Karate sparring, grappling, kick boxing, boxing and especially self defense '

When he moves, you move.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If I may be allowed a second suggestion. Since we are dealing in generalization here, as opposed to specifics - What I was taught a long time ago and has always worked well for us in Karate sparring, grappling, kick boxing, boxing and especially self defense '

When he moves, you move.

I love that song

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK, I get that. But the back of my hand cannot touch my chest if I do that move. Even trying makes my wrist hurt and makes me look like I'm pretending to be physically disabled. When we deliver an elbow like that, it's either delivered like an uppercut, or the hand reaches over the shoulder, palm down, as the elbow is delivered. If you reach over and grab your left shoulder with your right hand, that's the position (only we don't grab our own shoulder of course). This also allows us to complete a forward elbow strike with a backward elbow strike. Two for the price of one.

This is how we deliver an inward elbow. The closest part of the hand to my chest would be my thumb and index finger. I think if I tried to get the back of my hand to touch my chest, I'd have to dislocate something.
For an upward elbow, the palm of the hand faces the ear on same side (right hand to right ear, for example) if it's vertical, or the back of the hand faces the opposite ear (right hand by left ear) if it's angled across.

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is how we deliver an inward elbow. The closest part of the hand to my chest would be my thumb and index finger. I think if I tried to get the back of my hand to touch my chest, I'd have to dislocate something.
For an upward elbow, the palm of the hand faces the ear on same side (right hand to right ear, for example) if it's vertical, or the back of the hand faces the opposite ear (right hand by left ear) if it's angled across.

Try bringing it up from that hip rather than swing lateraly or over the top and you will find your wrist can touch your chest just fine.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Try bringing it up from that hip rather than swing lateraly or over the top and you will find your wrist can touch your chest just fine.

I do bring it from the hip, since my normal defensive posture has the elbows down. I'm still not going to touch my chest with my wrist. My hand is in the way...

 

[Flying Crane]

don't over intellectualize it, don't complicate it. Keep it simple and straight to the point. End it, RIGHT NOW.

The more complicated you make it, the faster you will lose.