WTF Kukkiwon Dan holder to ATA Dojang?

memory1179

White Belt
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I am thinking of restarting Taekwondo and I would like to ask some questions and gain some advice from you.

I have a Kukkiwon Dan certificate from South Korea. I was trained before during my youth in a WTF Dojang (Dojo) and during my military service there as my unit required everyone in the battalion to hold at least 1st-degree black belt from WTF.

Years have passed since then, and I am thinking of going back to a Dojang to practice my taekwondo as a form of lifestyle, something I can do to keep myself healthy. I want to go to a WTF affiliated Dojang but there isn't one around in a convenient location near my home, and I found a Dojang that I like which happens to be an ATA affiliated one. I've done some research to find out that despite the same origin, ATA and WTF don't share Poomsae or training.

Now, here are the questions:

1) has anyone had a similar situation where you would join ATA after having being trained and certified in WT?

2) What was your experience like?

3) Does ATA honor your WTF Dan certificate or do you have to start over?
 
Last edited:

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I am thinking of restarting Taekwondo and I would like to ask some questions and gain some advice from you.

I have a Kukkiwon Dan certificate from South Korea. I was trained before during my youth in a WTF Dojang (Dojo) and during my military service there as my unit required everyone in the battalion to hold at least 1st-degree black belt from WTF.

Years have passed since then, and I am thinking of going back to a Dojang to practice my taekwondo as a form of lifestyle, something I can do to keep myself healthy. I want to go to a WTF affiliated Dojang but there isn't one around in a convenient location near my home, and I found a Dojang that I like which happens to be an ATA affiliated one. I've done some research to find out that despite the same origin, ATA and WTF don't share Poomsae or training.

Now, here are the questions:

1) has anyone had a similar situation where you would join ATA after having being trained and certified in WT?

2) What was your experience like?

3) Does ATA honor your WTF Dan certificate or do you have to start over?

I would talk to the owner of that school and see what his policy is.

If it was the other way around (you had an ATA black belt and came to our KKW/WTF school), what would probably happen is that we would treat you like a black belt (i.e. how we show respect to you), but then put you in our red belt class and have you test for the KKW black belt.

So even if your Dan rank doesn't carry over, you can probably join in at a higher belt level because of your understanding of the techniques and catch up on the forms. Or you can start over as a white belt and learn everything they have to teach as they teach it, and hopefully test fast because you have a good understanding of many of the stances and techniques already.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,212
Reaction score
6,308
Location
New York
How many years has it been since you've trained? Depending on the length of time, you may not want to have your rank honored, empty cup and all that. Plus even within styles, a BB doesn't mean the same thing. In one school you can earn it in 2 years, in another it could take five. The rank itself doesn't matter, the important thing is that you don't go in assuming you're an expert in their style, because you're likely not.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Southeast U.S.
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I am thinking of restarting Taekwondo and I would like to ask some questions and gain some advice from you.

I have a Kukkiwon Dan certificate from South Korea. I was trained before during my youth in a WTF Dojang (Dojo) and during my military service there as my unit required everyone in the battalion to hold at least 1st-degree black belt from WTF.

Years have passed since then, and I am thinking of going back to a Dojang to practice my taekwondo as a form of lifestyle, something I can do to keep myself healthy. I want to go to a WTF affiliated Dojang but there isn't one around in a convenient location near my home, and I found a Dojang that I like which happens to be an ATA affiliated one. I've done some research to find out that despite the same origin, ATA and WTF don't share Poomsae or training.

Now, here are the questions:

1) has anyone had a similar situation where you would join ATA after having being trained and certified in WT?

2) What was your experience like?

3) Does ATA honor your WTF Dan certificate or do you have to start over?
The forms are quite different. So is the curriculum. So much so that you may find it easier to start fresh from white belt, or at least a lower belt. Depending on how long it has been you should find the learning easier compared to someone who has never had MA exposure. This may allow you to advance quicker but that would be up to the school/instructor.
Welcome to the forum. I hope you keep us in the loop.
 

Balrog

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,764
Reaction score
482
Location
Houston, TX
Hi, I'm new to this forum. I am thinking of restarting Taekwondo and I would like to ask some questions and gain some advice from you.

I have a Kukkiwon Dan certificate from South Korea. I was trained before during my youth in a WTF Dojang (Dojo) and during my military service there as my unit required everyone in the battalion to hold at least 1st-degree black belt from WTF.

Years have passed since then, and I am thinking of going back to a Dojang to practice my taekwondo as a form of lifestyle, something I can do to keep myself healthy. I want to go to a WTF affiliated Dojang but there isn't one around in a convenient location near my home, and I found a Dojang that I like which happens to be an ATA affiliated one. I've done some research to find out that despite the same origin, ATA and WTF don't share Poomsae or training.

Now, here are the questions:

1) has anyone had a similar situation where you would join ATA after having being trained and certified in WT?

2) What was your experience like?

3) Does ATA honor your WTF Dan certificate or do you have to start over?
I run an ATA school. Whenever I have someone come in who has earned Black Belt rank in another style, I always offer them the option of wearing their belt or starting over at White Belt with us. Every single one, so far, has opted to start over as a White Belt.

Given their prior training, these folks will pick up our lower rank forms very quickly, until they get up to a level with us that was equivalent to where they left off. They then fall right in step with our training, as if they had been with us from day one.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,361
Reaction score
9,097
Location
Pueblo West, CO
I run an ATA school. Whenever I have someone come in who has earned Black Belt rank in another style, I always offer them the option of wearing their belt or starting over at White Belt with us. Every single one, so far, has opted to start over as a White Belt.

Given their prior training, these folks will pick up our lower rank forms very quickly, until they get up to a level with us that was equivalent to where they left off. They then fall right in step with our training, as if they had been with us from day one.

That's how we do it, too. And I've noticed the same thing. The ones who want to wear their old rank don't stay around long. The ones who strap on the white belt do.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
I run an ATA school. Whenever I have someone come in who has earned Black Belt rank in another style, I always offer them the option of wearing their belt or starting over at White Belt with us. Every single one, so far, has opted to start over as a White Belt.

Given their prior training, these folks will pick up our lower rank forms very quickly, until they get up to a level with us that was equivalent to where they left off. They then fall right in step with our training, as if they had been with us from day one.

How long would it take someone to go from White Belt to 3rd Degree black belt doing this?
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
That's how we do it, too. And I've noticed the same thing. The ones who want to wear their old rank don't stay around long. The ones who strap on the white belt do.

Is there a difference between someone who does KKW or ITF TKD, someone who does Karate, and someone who does something completely different like BJJ?

If I were to go to an ATA school from a KKW school, it would be because I moved or because my school closed down and I need a new place to train. If I'm looking for a new style to supplement what I know, I'll make a bigger change than going from KKW to ATA.

I'm also curious how much of it was the students having the arrogance to keep their belt, or if there was any pushback on them being outsiders (i.e. "you don't know Form X? You should know that if you're a black belt").
 

Balrog

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,764
Reaction score
482
Location
Houston, TX
How long would it take someone to go from White Belt to 3rd Degree black belt doing this?
It depends solely on the person and their capability. I would certainly imagine that it would take less than half the time that someone with no previous experience would take.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Southeast U.S.
How long would it take someone to go from White Belt to 3rd Degree black belt doing this?
Two years to 2nd Dan, 3 years to 3 Dan. So I think it would depend on how long it takes them to get proficient to 1st Dan. Six years minimum I would hope.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Southeast U.S.
Is there a difference between someone who does KKW or ITF TKD, someone who does Karate, and someone who does something completely different like BJJ?

If I were to go to an ATA school from a KKW school, it would be because I moved or because my school closed down and I need a new place to train. If I'm looking for a new style to supplement what I know, I'll make a bigger change than going from KKW to ATA.

I'm also curious how much of it was the students having the arrogance to keep their belt, or if there was any pushback on them being outsiders (i.e. "you don't know Form X? You should know that if you're a black belt").
I think your last paragraph would be heavy on the school owner/instructor. They can either navigate something like you mention with their other students or just not let it happen at all.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
Two years to 2nd Dan, 3 years to 3 Dan. So I think it would depend on how long it takes them to get proficient to 1st Dan. Six years minimum I would hope.

Other than the forms and sparring rules, how much is different from ATA to KKW?

If it's going to take me 6 years minimum to catch up to where I am now, I'd rather just take a different art completely.
 

pdg

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
3,568
Reaction score
1,034
Some organisations will do a conversion transfer to the equivalent rank - I've heard of the kkw granting some dan ranks to itf holders (subject to agreeing to teach to their curriculum) and the other way around.

Maybe ATA would do the same, maybe not...
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,361
Reaction score
9,097
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Some organisations will do a conversion transfer to the equivalent rank - I've heard of the kkw granting some dan ranks to itf holders (subject to agreeing to teach to their curriculum) and the other way around.

As I understand it, the KKW does this routinely (and not just with ITF practitioners) as part of their Borg initiative.
They do require you to agree to teach the KKW curriculum, but of course there is no way to enforce that.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Southeast U.S.
Other than the forms and sparring rules, how much is different from ATA to KKW?

If it's going to take me 6 years minimum to catch up to where I am now, I'd rather just take a different art completely.
Very. A totally different set of Poomsae, sparring and from the few dozen ATA schools I have worked out at the training style and self defense practice is different. I would say pure SD has more of an emphasis.
If someone could face pace to 3rd Dan much faster than that, I don't know how much value I would put in it.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,361
Reaction score
9,097
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Very. A totally different set of Poomsae, sparring and from the few dozen ATA schools I have worked out at the training style and self defense practice is different. I would say pure SD has more of an emphasis.
If someone could face pace to 3rd Dan much faster than that, I don't know how much value I would put in it.

Meh. I'm going to disagree. Strongly.
Changing from one style of TKD to another is no big deal. I have rank from the KKW, the ITF and the MDK. Honestly, if someone had a reasonable level of skill and training in one, they should be able to transition to another in a very short time. Because they're not learning a new art. They'd have to learn a new set of sparring rules. And new forms. But (again, the assumption is they're fairly advanced) those forms aren't likely to contain much, if any, new material. They're just putting things they already know in a different order. When I decided to get KKW rank it took me 2-3 weeks to learn their curriculum.
 

WaterGal

Master of Arts
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
1,795
Reaction score
627
As I understand it, the KKW does this routinely (and not just with ITF practitioners) as part of their Borg initiative.
They do require you to agree to teach the KKW curriculum, but of course there is no way to enforce that.

Yeah, I think they offer transfer testing to ATA dan rank holders as well, actually. I do remember reading they specifically don't allow it for people who only have an "in school rank", because anybody can print up a certificate on their computer saying they have a 13th degree black belt from Bob's Traditional TKD Academy. So it does need to be a transfer from another organization, but I think there's a few different organizations they accept.
 

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,446
Reaction score
2,517
Meh. I'm going to disagree. Strongly.
Changing from one style of TKD to another is no big deal. I have rank from the KKW, the ITF and the MDK. Honestly, if someone had a reasonable level of skill and training in one, they should be able to transition to another in a very short time. Because they're not learning a new art. They'd have to learn a new set of sparring rules. And new forms. But (again, the assumption is they're fairly advanced) those forms aren't likely to contain much, if any, new material. They're just putting things they already know in a different order. When I decided to get KKW rank it took me 2-3 weeks to learn their curriculum.

We had a couple kids come to our KKW school, their previous experience was in Shotokan Karate. They came in at the belt they earned and pretty much fit right in.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
23,361
Reaction score
9,097
Location
Pueblo West, CO
We had a couple kids come to our KKW school, their previous experience was in Shotokan Karate. They came in at the belt they earned and pretty much fit right in.

One caveat to what I posted is that the person is going to have to put in some work during those few weeks. If they do, learning new forms is pretty easy, and they'll likely fit in just fine. If they just come to class and do no work on their own, then they're not likely to last.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,297
Location
Southeast U.S.
Meh. I'm going to disagree. Strongly.
Changing from one style of TKD to another is no big deal. I have rank from the KKW, the ITF and the MDK. Honestly, if someone had a reasonable level of skill and training in one, they should be able to transition to another in a very short time. Because they're not learning a new art. They'd have to learn a new set of sparring rules. And new forms. But (again, the assumption is they're fairly advanced) those forms aren't likely to contain much, if any, new material. They're just putting things they already know in a different order. When I decided to get KKW rank it took me 2-3 weeks to learn their curriculum.
I do not know the OP's level of experience so I was trying to look at if from a lesser level of experience. ATA has fewer forms as I remember so that would also shorten the acclimation for a person of rank.
 

Latest Discussions

Top