What do you do if someone runs at you with punches?

Flying Crane

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Similar concept, I'm not a fan of the centerline punch like that, and his stepping is different. He is punching faster than his steps, so they aren't worked together. That eliminates the potential power that he could get from a driving step. He also seems to be rising up and losing his root, it's not easy to keep your root when moving quickly. It's something to strive for, tho.
 

drop bear

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Move off line then kick.

Cover dig in and throw punches back.

Learn good footwork. And move out of their way.

ok. so now i have access to youtube.

Basically you need to learn decent head movement, defence and counter punching off a guy who knows that sort of thing.

Then you need to move backwards and then sideways. no more than two steps back. A person running forwards can overrun a person running backwards. But a person turning a corner can beat a person following.

so it will look a little something like this.

or this.

or this.
 
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JowGaWolf

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He isn't committed to the charge, but that's what happens in sparring. It isn't a genuine test of the strategy. It can't be.

It's easy to defend against when you know it's coming, and when everyone is wearing clunky boxing gloves.
People do charging attacks on me all the time. That's why it's easy for me. The size of the gloves does not make a difference when it comes to doing a proper charge. It's in the legs. If the root isn't there for the punch then the punch will be weak. Running after a person as shown in that video is not the correct way to charge at someone.
 

drop bear

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People do charging attacks on me all the time. That's why it's easy for me. The size of the gloves does not make a difference when it comes to doing a proper charge. It's in the legs. If the root isn't there for the punch then the punch will be weak. Running after a person as shown in that video is not the correct way to charge at someone.

ben 10 hitting that little cross step with a charging attack.
 

JowGaWolf

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A person running forwards can overrun a person running backwards. But a person turning a corner can beat a person following.
You are exactly correct. This is the rule for linear punch charges. Which is why martial art charges should not be running charges. If someone charges in linear then step off the line of attack. If a person can time the beginning of the charge then the charge will stall.
 

drop bear

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You are exactly correct. This is the rule for linear punch charges. Which is why martial art charges should not be running charges. If someone charges in linear then step off the line of attack. If a person can time the beginning of the charge then the charge will stall.

Not really.

Just because a counter exists. Doesnt invalidate the tactic. Charges work, counters to charges work.

That is fighting.
 

JowGaWolf

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ben 10 hitting that little cross step with a charging attack.
excellent video showing a charge. Very similar to what Mike Tyson was doing with his pad word. Both had a root from which they could draw power from. Ben 10 isn't running on his toes like the video of the other guy. This allows him to change direction as well as move forward, unlike that other guy who had to pull up like a plane recovering from a nose dive. lol

Those are the types of charges that I often get attacked with. His opponent didn't understand how that charge works, because the charge is with circular punches. Still a great technique for Ben 10, because even while he was attacking he was analyzing his opponent which allowed him to duck that punch. Had Ben 10 been punching wildly then he would have been hit solid as the guy tried to counter him with that punch.
 

JowGaWolf

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Not really.

Just because a counter exists. Doesnt invalidate the tactic. Charges work, counters to charges work.

That is fighting.
I think you misunderstood me. I know charges work. I use them myself, but I'm never on my toes and I never charge in a way that doesn't allow me to change direction.
 

Buka

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People who run at you swinging wildly are either doing it for the first time - or have done it before and it worked for them. Doesn't take a brain trust to figure what is the more likely.

But we all train here. We have emulated that wild swinging/charging scenario and have practiced our response to it over and over, because we all know it is a common thing. We have done so with the appropriate contact, with as much madness as we could safely recreate, and with as many options that are at our disposal.

We, all of us, don't just train to defend against what we do in our particular art, we train to defend against actual attacks, actual violence.

May we all survive to fight another day. Hoorah.
 

Flying Crane

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People do charging attacks on me all the time. That's why it's easy for me. The size of the gloves does not make a difference when it comes to doing a proper charge. It's in the legs. If the root isn't there for the punch then the punch will be weak. Running after a person as shown in that video is not the correct way to charge at someone.
Well, as I'm saying, in any sparring situation it can only be half way because to use it for real requires full committment and if successful, requires and results in real injury to the opponent. And yes, size of the gloves absolutely makes a difference. It's best as a bare knuckle attack, this is really meant for real, not a game. So it will never quite work completely, in sparring. But sparring is a good time and place to experiment with it, as long as expectations are realistic.

Yes, it's in the legs, and no, you don't chase someone with it. That's why the set up is so important. You launch when he will have no opportunity to retreat.

None of the videos posted show a proper charge punch, done the way it's meant to be done
 

Flying Crane

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I'm not sure what you are trying to show with this video? Was it the end of the fight where Silvia knocked him out?

If so, that guy had already lost. His fight was gone, he had nothing left to give. He launched his charge from too far away, with no setup, against a guy who still had a lot of fight left in him. So it didn't work.

Like anything, it's not a magic bullet.
 

marques

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It's a risk of any kick on unpredictable surfaces, because you have to pick up one foot. It's part of the trade-off.
I think it is more riskier a bad* kick than raising a foot alone.

I don't remember using kicks 'in real life' and even in training when things are a bit serious, I start using only super safe and defensive kicks, and lots of fake kicks just for step in. Because a bad kick is high risk.

*bad choice or quality

PS: Long time ago, I did great high kicks in a light contact competition. As it was light contact, the opponent was throwing me down after the connected kicks. I lost the combat (as throwings where more valuable). I love kicks, but I don't trust them as finishing techniques (since putting power on them compromises a lot my defence or follow up to the next move).
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think it is more riskier a bad* kick than raising a foot alone.

I don't remember using kicks 'in real life' and even in training when things are a bit serious, I start using only super safe and defensive kicks, and lots of fake kicks just for step in. Because a bad kick is high risk.

*bad choice or quality

PS: Long time ago, I did great high kicks in a light contact competition. As it was light contact, the opponent was throwing me down after the connected kicks. I lost the combat (as throwings where more valuable). I love kicks, but I don't trust them as finishing techniques (since putting power on them compromises a lot my defence or follow up to the next move).
Agreed. The risk on unpredictable surfaces is that an impediment can ruin what would otherwise be a solid kick, so even a "good" kick can turn out to be "bad".

For others reading, I'm not saying kicks are useless in self-defense. Given their power, there are times the risk is worth the benefit. The better your kicks, the higher the benefit. If you've also practiced on some unpredictable surfaces, you reduce the risk a bit.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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You can force your opponent to open himself.

If you protect your

- center, your opponent will use hook, or hay-maker to punch you from the side.
- sides, your opponent will use jab, or cross to punch you from the center.

Which door that you want your opponent to come in is up to you.
Here are examples:

1. Invite your opponent to come in through your side doors.


2. Invite your opponent to come in through your front door.

 

Kung Fu Wang

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Because a bad kick is high risk.
Agree! If your opponent can

- catch your kicking leg,
- hook your standing leg,
- you will have no leg left but fall,
- if he also drops his knee right into your groin area,

that will be a "finish move" and you will regret for the rest of your life
 

JowGaWolf

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Agreed. The risk on unpredictable surfaces is that an impediment can ruin what would otherwise be a solid kick, so even a "good" kick can turn out to be "bad".

For others reading, I'm not saying kicks are useless in self-defense. Given their power, there are times the risk is worth the benefit. The better your kicks, the higher the benefit. If you've also practiced on some unpredictable surfaces, you reduce the risk a bit.
Surfaces really aren't unpredictable. if you are walking on a surface then you should already have an idea of the footing for that surface. For example think of all of the different surfaces that you walk on throughout the year. You are able to navigate these surfaces with very little trouble because your body and mind recognizes the change in surfaces. There are exceptions such as wet spill on the floor where the same surface goes from dry to wet. But for the most part when I step on grass, the majority of that grass is going to be the same. When I train students during warm ups, I tell them to focus on how their feet interact with the ground, I tell them to take notes of shifts and changes in their muscles. Most people walk on the ground without paying attention to the ground they are walking on.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Surfaces really aren't unpredictable. if you are walking on a surface then you should already have an idea of the footing for that surface. For example think of all of the different surfaces that you walk on throughout the year. You are able to navigate these surfaces with very little trouble because your body and mind recognizes the change in surfaces. There are exceptions such as wet spill on the floor where the same surface goes from dry to wet. But for the most part when I step on grass, the majority of that grass is going to be the same. When I train students during warm ups, I tell them to focus on how their feet interact with the ground, I tell them to take notes of shifts and changes in their muscles. Most people walk on the ground without paying attention to the ground they are walking on.
By "unpredictable", I'm referring to surfaces that don't present a consistent level and footing. Gravel is unpredictable - sometimes it feels solid, sometimes it slips quickly. Some sidewalks are unpredictable - they can go quickly from level to broken. Those are the things I'm talking about. Observation can fix some of that, but that's not the same as prediction. Mats, most pave parking lots, hardwood floors, etc. are more predictable, excepting any impedimenta. Impedimenta can make any surface unpredictable. In my house, it's possible at any point to step on a dog toy. That's not predictable, and can only be solved by observation. That kind of observation is difficult in the heat of an attack (tunnel vision).

As for walking on a surface, most of us occasionally stumble when walking. That's when we're using both feet (not the case in a kick), and not suffering tunnel vision. Add the force vectors from a kick, and things get less stable, yet.
 

JR 137

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this video is probably not a good representation of how to charge in with punches. That type of charge doesn't have power, it's unstable, and a quick person would knock the mess out of him charging in like that. Mike Tyson does the appropriate charge it's rooted but mobile and quick.

I can't get enough Mike Tyson in his prime training videos. The ones where he's with with Teddy Atlas and/or Kevin Rooney. After he fired those guys, he stood up straight, effectively turning him into a punching bag for anyone who was any good.

But the real point of my post... notice how many times he's in horse stance? Modified front leaning stance? We call that one suri ashi dachi and use quite it often in Seido.

And some people think the karate stances are a waste of time.
 
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