The spiritual side?

[Vertical Fist]

Hello all! I’ve been training on and off for about 10 years in a system that is a combination of various arts, and is trained as a RBSD. It’s a blended system that include Western Boxing, Muay Thai, Jeet Kune Do, Kali, Sambo, San Da. We’ve trained very realistically, against resistance, multiple attackers, weapons, indoor/outdoor training as well.

Lately, I’ve been wanting more than just the physical side of martial arts. The RBSD is brutal and effective, but just isn’t giving me the spiritual side. So, I’ve been thinking about going out and starting a traditional martial art. My question is, given my background in RBSD, how hard would it be to pick up a traditional martial art, given the different training approaches/philosophies? I just have a feeling that I’ll be lost between them.

Any thoughts?

 

[BloodMoney]

One of the reasons I enjoy Wing Chun so much is because its a balance between a spiritual, chi gathering art like Tai Chi and a brutal street art like Krav Maga. I guess it depends where and who you train with, but personally I think Chun balances the two well. Then the rest is up to you how much of either you get out of it (ie: doing the form everyday really slowly, or just concentrating on the mechanics of chain punching etc)

 

[Omar B]

How hard? as hard as going to the class and signing up. Really, there's nothing standing in your way but procrastination. You are after all starting a beginner, they don't expect you to know their system starting out.

 

[Blindside]

Lately, I’ve been wanting more than just the physical side of martial arts. The RBSD is brutal and effective, but just isn’t giving me the spiritual side. So, I’ve been thinking about going out and starting a traditional martial art. My question is, given my background in RBSD, how hard would it be to pick up a traditional martial art, given the different training approaches/philosophies? I just have a feeling that I’ll be lost between them.

Any thoughts?

What sort of "spirituality" are you looking for? Ethics? RBSD should have that. Kneeling and meditating? You can do that on your own. Why do you think some other martial artist has some insights into matters of the soul. You would probably be far better off searching out some RBSD guy who has seen the elephant and ask him for advice about what that taught him about how to live his life.

 

[teekin]

I get what you are saying VF. I have had the same dillema to some extent. I like to have some sort of concrete structure or guiding philosophy to help me in my training. The arts that have a strong spiritual side have that, the purely sport or RBSD Arts seem to lack it. However, I found that I could not trade the realism of the arts I knew to work for the philosophy of an art who's effectiveness I had my doubts about.

Lori

 

[Cirdan]

Taking up a new art offers some challenges when it comes to learning new principles, techniques etc. I am not sure if the spiritual side even enters into this, while there are dojos that practice budhism or other religions it is often a personal matter for those who are interested. If you are mainly looking for spirituality, there are better places like a church or a temple.

 

[Vertical Fist]

I apologize, after re-reading my first post, I thought it was a bit confusing and lacking direction. I'm not looking for a religion, but more of a guiding philosophy, tradition, discipline. I'm not sure if I can completely relay my thoughts through words, just that the RBSD feels 'empty'.

Thanks for all the replies/comments.

Greg

 

[Xue Sheng]

I apologize, after re-reading my first post, I thought it was a bit confusing and lacking direction. I'm not looking for a religion, but more of a guiding philosophy, tradition, discipline. I'm not sure if I can completely relay my thoughts through words, just that the RBSD feels 'empty'.

Thanks for all the replies/comments.

Greg

Sifu, Sensei, Teacher is likely going to teach you traditional Martial arts they are not going to teach you philosophy or spirituality and frankly if they did I would worry about the legitimacy of the school. The stuff you are looking for in TMA is intrinsic to the art itself it is not separate or compartmentalized. Most Eastern Cultures do not compartmentalize things like we do in the west it is all part of the same thing.

But with that said from what I have read of your post you may like Aikido it tends towards the more philosophical approach from what I can see and still maintains a balance with its martial arts side. And yet it is not there to directly teach you spirituality or philosophy, that all comes from inside yourself via the training. As for CMA styles, if they teach Philosophy and spirituality run away don't look back and find another school. Again it all comes from inside yourself due to the training it does not come from a obvious direct training of spirituality and philosophy. For that matter you could get the same form what you are training, just learn how to meditate and you will get much the same.

If you are looking for spirituality and philosophy I suggest, if you have not already read it, read Zen in the martial arts. Look to books on Zen/Chan, Shinto, and Taoism.

 

[geezer]

To take the other side of the coin from Xue, I'd say that the martial arts often convey a philosophical approach, if only as a corollary to their approach to combat. In the Wing Chun I study, for example, there is great emphasis on directness, efficiency, and taking the shortest path. There is also the emphasis on going beyond reliance on your own strength and yielding flexibly before a stronger force, and even learning to "borrow the force" or use that stronger force to add to your own. These concepts apply well beyong the realm of the fighting arts to life in general. Most martial arts impart some sort of philosophy, an "outlook", or at least an "attitude". Since you can already defend yourself with RBSD and if something more philosophical, in a taoist or zen sence is what you are looking for, you might want to look at styles that are not easily and quickly adaptable to combat like Aikido, Tai Chi or even something like Iaijutsu, or another form of Budo. Visit schools, check out different systems and instructors and maybe you'll find what you are looking for. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

 

[Xue Sheng]

To take the other side of the coin from Xue, I'd say that the martial arts often convey a philosophical approach, if only as a corollary to their approach to combat. In the Wing Chun I study, for example, there is great emphasis on directness, efficiency, and taking the shortest path. There is also the emphasis on going beyond reliance on your own strength and yielding flexibly before a stronger force, and even learning to "borrow the force" or use that stronger force to add to your own. These concepts apply well beyong the realm of the fighting arts to life in general. Most martial arts impart some sort of philosophy, an "outlook", or at least an "attitude". Since you can already defend yourself with RBSD and if something more philosophical, in a taoist or zen sence is what you are looking for, you might want to look at styles that are not easily and quickly adaptable to combat like Aikido, Tai Chi or even something like Iaijutsu, or another form of Budo. Visit schools, check out different systems and instructors and maybe you'll find what you are looking for. Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

You are not on the other side of the coin at all. MA does convey this it is just not overt or separate it is all the same and most teachers do not teach it as separate it is just a part of the whole.

As for Taiji, be very careful with looking to taiji since there are very few Taiji teachers out there that actually know the real martial side of Taiji or anything of martial arts at all

 

[Nomad]

If you are looking for spirituality and philosophy I suggest, if you have not already read it, read Zen in the martial arts. Look to books on Zen/Chan, Shinto, and Taoism.

I'm with Xue on this one. There are plenty of great sources for the spiritual or philosophical side of martial arts that can be obtained without going to a new school or picking up a TMA (since it sounds like you're not really into picking up a new system for it's own sake). I think what you're really looking for is guidance on your path to investigating these things. There are a number of great books that can get you started, including Zen in the Martial Arts (mentioned above), Living the Martial Way, Way of the Peaceful Warrior, and many others.

Maybe look into a meditation class to balance out your current training?

 

[teekin]

VF, when I 1st began to study Dressage ( look it up on U-tube, it takes decades to get even half way good) I studied with anyone who seemed to know what they were doing. But it was just a collection of movements and exercises. There was no guiding philosophy behind the series, nothing that hung them all together. The path seemed to have no "Heart". It wasn't until I attended a Lee Tubman clinic and he yanked me off my horse and reamed me out in public for kicking with spurs on that I figured out that I needed to find a new path, One that had heart, that addressed the spiritual side of riding, the "why" of why I rode.

I did find that with a new coach and a new way way of looking at riding. In fact a new way of looking at my relationship to my horses. I found a path that has Heart, that feels right to me, that leaves me deeply satisfied and at peace with myself and the world. Is this what you mean?? (The fact that it also produces brilliant happy horses who score very well, last forever and sell for good money is a bonus. )

Lori

 

[Bruno@MT]

Not being VF, I cannot answer for him, but in my own experience, I have to say that your analogy sounds about right.

I have done some other MA when I was younger. And while they were effective and I liked doing them, they were all about techniques, strength, speed, and beating the other person. Little or nothing was taught about underlying philosophy and the 'soft' side of things.

Now I am part of a very traditional organization and my sensei teaches us both the physical side of things and the philosophical / spiritual side of things. I have only been studying for 2 years now, but I have learned much more in that time than in the 4 years I practiced martial arts when I was younger. Apart from learning more about the martial arts, I have also learned about 'me'. What I do now has 'heart' whereas what I did before did not.

 

[Balrog]

Lately, I’ve been wanting more than just the physical side of martial arts. The RBSD is brutal and effective, but just isn’t giving me the spiritual side. So, I’ve been thinking about going out and starting a traditional martial art. My question is, given my background in RBSD, how hard would it be to pick up a traditional martial art, given the different training approaches/philosophies? I just have a feeling that I’ll be lost between them.

Any thoughts?

Start exploring it on your own. There are three books that any serious martial artist should read:

The Book of Five Rings

The Art of War

Martial Way and its Virtue – Tao De Gung

Those will keep you busy for quite some time. Then branch out from there.

 

[Haze]

I think many look for the spirituality of the art but may not find it. I think we find it by finding ourselves. Some find out who they are through the arts or should I say while studying the arts. The spiritual side of US is what we need to find. Some may be able to guide you but YOU need to find it. As all of us are different, what touches my soul may seem a waste to another. First step is understanding that something is missing. The RBSD that you study is most likely whole as an art or self defense system. What may be lacking is the fact that you do not see yourself as whole. There are many ways to wholeness, you need to find what it is that touches your most inner being and you will have what you are seeking.

 

[Vulcan]

Many of the Zen schools of Buddhism are intertwined with the martial arts.


I highly recommend starting with this book by the monk Takuan:

I do not think the way is found in books. But books can point to the path, and one has to start somewhere if you have not found a teacher to guide you. Hopefully, you will be able to find a local Zen center or temple so that you can ask your sensei what he thinks.


Spirituality is a lifetime pursuit, so enjoy the journey and don't worry so much about the destination (which is the same place you are standing now, just with a different view).

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Martial arts will teach you the kinesthesiology. Anything spiritual tied to the art creates conscious/unconsious assumptions within every practitioner of that art. At best, these assumptions are superfluous to the purpose, at worst they create counter-productive memes like painted-over rust and might set you up for a rude awakening.

Philosophy definitely has its place in any inexact science, and the martial arts are nothing if not the transmission of knowledge. Spirituality deals with feeling and is very personal. It has very little to do with knowledge but has a lot to do with belief. We don't study martial arts based on belief, we study martial arts based on effectiveness, for our respective purposes. There are many people who's spirituality is not equal to their eloquence and they would attempt to convince you of something for the benefit of their own ego to your detriment.

Reserve your open mind behind a strong barrier of scepticism. Best to learn it through your own experiences and seek out guides, not teachers.

Nobody can tell you how an apple tastes to you, you have to give it some serious thought and decide what you believe it tastes like.