What do people mean when they ask if an art is more offensive or defensive?
- Thread starter Marcy Shoberg
- Start date
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hmm. I'm a little past being tactful as well.
Uh, nope. An arts techniques are there because of it's philosophy, they aren't chosen randomly for different reasons. In fact, the techniques themselves are nothing more than an expression of the philosophy, which is what the art actually is. This has been explained. I know that, because I'm the one who explained it.
That's your list of "credentials"? Questioning other peoples, then a list of books you've read? Seriously? In the middle of which you talk about reading a couple of Krav Maga books, and thinking that means you actually know Krav Maga (with no actual training in it whatsoever)? This then followed by an anecdote about a student who came to you from an actual Krav Maga school, saw what you were passing off, and decided not to join "as he didn't like your drill", causing you to belittle his former instructor because his instructor "obviously didn't read the book"?!?! Seriously?!?!
To be blunt, Marcy, you have 30 years experience but apparently have absolutely no education in these areas whatsoever.
Are you kidding? Frankly, Marcy, if you had the first idea about any of this, you wouldn't need to play such games, as they show a large degree of ignorance on your part. You wouldn't need to ask "what do you mean self defence", as you'd know. You may clarify with them, if they have the wrong idea, but you really, really, really shouldn't need to ask yourself.
I mean, your "credentials" scream that you only see martial arts as collections of techniques, have the feeling that "more techniques is the answer", can't see the difference between an offensive or defensive martial system, can't differentiate such tactics, discount actual relevant experiences and sources of information, rely on books that it really seems you haven't understood, and still offer vaguaries when it comes to something as basic as defining self defence (for a supposed self defence expert or instructor). Frankly, if my guys still had these ideas after being in a martial art school for 6 months, I'd be incredibly worried about the instruction they were getting... the idea that a 30 year veteran, 5th Dan in two systems self defence "expert" is suffering from the absolute beginners mindset I find rather disturbing.
There will be different emphasis', but there will also be a great degree of similarities with the ideas. With our schools, for instance, the main concept is "get home safe", which I would class as the overarching theme for all self defence. There are elements that you mention which are correct, but you then show a real lack of depth in their regard, which is where the red flags really started up for me. All you've done so far is confirm my thoughts.
I heartily recommend you stick to teaching TKD as a technique system, and limit the amount of "self defence" advice you give.
Uh, nope. An arts techniques are there because of it's philosophy, they aren't chosen randomly for different reasons. In fact, the techniques themselves are nothing more than an expression of the philosophy, which is what the art actually is. This has been explained. I know that, because I'm the one who explained it.
That's your list of "credentials"? Questioning other peoples, then a list of books you've read? Seriously? In the middle of which you talk about reading a couple of Krav Maga books, and thinking that means you actually know Krav Maga (with no actual training in it whatsoever)? This then followed by an anecdote about a student who came to you from an actual Krav Maga school, saw what you were passing off, and decided not to join "as he didn't like your drill", causing you to belittle his former instructor because his instructor "obviously didn't read the book"?!?! Seriously?!?!
To be blunt, Marcy, you have 30 years experience but apparently have absolutely no education in these areas whatsoever.
Are you kidding? Frankly, Marcy, if you had the first idea about any of this, you wouldn't need to play such games, as they show a large degree of ignorance on your part. You wouldn't need to ask "what do you mean self defence", as you'd know. You may clarify with them, if they have the wrong idea, but you really, really, really shouldn't need to ask yourself.
I mean, your "credentials" scream that you only see martial arts as collections of techniques, have the feeling that "more techniques is the answer", can't see the difference between an offensive or defensive martial system, can't differentiate such tactics, discount actual relevant experiences and sources of information, rely on books that it really seems you haven't understood, and still offer vaguaries when it comes to something as basic as defining self defence (for a supposed self defence expert or instructor). Frankly, if my guys still had these ideas after being in a martial art school for 6 months, I'd be incredibly worried about the instruction they were getting... the idea that a 30 year veteran, 5th Dan in two systems self defence "expert" is suffering from the absolute beginners mindset I find rather disturbing.
There will be different emphasis', but there will also be a great degree of similarities with the ideas. With our schools, for instance, the main concept is "get home safe", which I would class as the overarching theme for all self defence. There are elements that you mention which are correct, but you then show a real lack of depth in their regard, which is where the red flags really started up for me. All you've done so far is confirm my thoughts.
I heartily recommend you stick to teaching TKD as a technique system, and limit the amount of "self defence" advice you give.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
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Marcey Shoberg - First, I am not an instructor, much less a master rank. I also don't consider myself an expert on self defense. I am simply a person who has had to consider it some few odd times in my life, and am also a student of the martial arts.
I get the impression from you post here and your school's web site, that you really are interested in doing the best possible for your students, and anyone else who may ask you about self defense. Today, while googling for Chunki Hapkido, I came across your school's web site. You mentioned Chunki Hapkido so I that was how I got there. I took the liberty of looking around your site, and ran across some of your writing on self defense. I found this:
... But, what if you’ve tried your best and a person is still taking a swing at you? I used to think that blocking and then counterattacking was the way to respond to a strike. Many martial art teachers probably still think this. However, a couple of years ago I was introduced to something better at an IMPACT self defense class in Santa Fe, NM. What they taught was as follows. If you are facing a person, exchanging words, but expecting them to punch you, when you see the punch coming, move inside the arc of the punch and hit with knee strikes. There’s a little more to it than this, so I encourage you to learn it from a qualified teacher some day. But, it’s easy enough to do that anyone, of any size and strength, has a good chance to be able to use this move against a large, angry attacker. The same cannot be said for the old block-and-counterattack concept.
A somewhat different perspective on blocks can be found, however, in my favorite self defense system, Krav Maga. Krav Maga teaches to block while counterattacking. This is clearly better than blocking then counterattacking; because, in the time between the block and the counterattack, a situation can change such as to make your counterattack useless. One obvious problem with this, though, is its difficulty. Not everyone can easily do a different thing with each arm at the same time. I guess that’s why we need Krav Maga classes!
After putting much effort into deciding whether I wanted to teach my students to block or not, I have reached a decision. I first teach them the move-in-and-counterattack method taught by IMPACT, which requires no blocking. After they are good at this, I teach the block-while-counterattacking method. ...
I must admit I am a little baffled. I only studied TKD very briefly a long time ago. But I seem to remember we had combination blocks and strikes, although I will admit, blocks and then strikes, at least in the forms, did seem to predominate. We certainly tended to use combinations at the end of 3 step sparring drills. Certainly in Hapkido, we are often inclined to block and counter attack at the same time. There may be some, but I don't recall any movement into a punch attack that didn't include a block first. I remember a move in to counter a middle side kick, but the attack angle and body movements make punches very difficult to impossible. The result of the counter is that the pelvic bone is broken and the opponent cannot stand. But for the most part, when moving into an attack (a common defense) we are certain to move to the side, or block, or both. Did you not learn that in the Hapkido you studied?
Again, I don't understand why Krav Maga would become your favorite self defense system. I don't much understand how you could be a 5th dan in TKD, and find book learned Krav Maga superior. It just blows my understanding that you could be a 5th dan in Hapkido and feel that way. How long did you study Hapkido? Or perhaps it was learned from a series of seminars with careful testing after each? Is there nothing in what you learned in either TKD or Hapkido (or both) that you could condense into a viable self defense class or seminar? If you say no, then I begin to understand why you come here to ask about self defense. But I also wonder about your qualifications to teach any form of self defense.
Please don't take this as an attack on you or your school, or your martial arts training. It is just that I have trouble understanding what and why you are asking with your level of training in two martial arts. And I am trying to understand. As I said, I know almost nothing about TDK, but do claim some knowledge of Hapkido, and I am puzzled.
Thanks for whatever you can say to help me understand.
I get the impression from you post here and your school's web site, that you really are interested in doing the best possible for your students, and anyone else who may ask you about self defense. Today, while googling for Chunki Hapkido, I came across your school's web site. You mentioned Chunki Hapkido so I that was how I got there. I took the liberty of looking around your site, and ran across some of your writing on self defense. I found this:
... But, what if you’ve tried your best and a person is still taking a swing at you? I used to think that blocking and then counterattacking was the way to respond to a strike. Many martial art teachers probably still think this. However, a couple of years ago I was introduced to something better at an IMPACT self defense class in Santa Fe, NM. What they taught was as follows. If you are facing a person, exchanging words, but expecting them to punch you, when you see the punch coming, move inside the arc of the punch and hit with knee strikes. There’s a little more to it than this, so I encourage you to learn it from a qualified teacher some day. But, it’s easy enough to do that anyone, of any size and strength, has a good chance to be able to use this move against a large, angry attacker. The same cannot be said for the old block-and-counterattack concept.
A somewhat different perspective on blocks can be found, however, in my favorite self defense system, Krav Maga. Krav Maga teaches to block while counterattacking. This is clearly better than blocking then counterattacking; because, in the time between the block and the counterattack, a situation can change such as to make your counterattack useless. One obvious problem with this, though, is its difficulty. Not everyone can easily do a different thing with each arm at the same time. I guess that’s why we need Krav Maga classes!
After putting much effort into deciding whether I wanted to teach my students to block or not, I have reached a decision. I first teach them the move-in-and-counterattack method taught by IMPACT, which requires no blocking. After they are good at this, I teach the block-while-counterattacking method. ...
I must admit I am a little baffled. I only studied TKD very briefly a long time ago. But I seem to remember we had combination blocks and strikes, although I will admit, blocks and then strikes, at least in the forms, did seem to predominate. We certainly tended to use combinations at the end of 3 step sparring drills. Certainly in Hapkido, we are often inclined to block and counter attack at the same time. There may be some, but I don't recall any movement into a punch attack that didn't include a block first. I remember a move in to counter a middle side kick, but the attack angle and body movements make punches very difficult to impossible. The result of the counter is that the pelvic bone is broken and the opponent cannot stand. But for the most part, when moving into an attack (a common defense) we are certain to move to the side, or block, or both. Did you not learn that in the Hapkido you studied?
Again, I don't understand why Krav Maga would become your favorite self defense system. I don't much understand how you could be a 5th dan in TKD, and find book learned Krav Maga superior. It just blows my understanding that you could be a 5th dan in Hapkido and feel that way. How long did you study Hapkido? Or perhaps it was learned from a series of seminars with careful testing after each? Is there nothing in what you learned in either TKD or Hapkido (or both) that you could condense into a viable self defense class or seminar? If you say no, then I begin to understand why you come here to ask about self defense. But I also wonder about your qualifications to teach any form of self defense.
Please don't take this as an attack on you or your school, or your martial arts training. It is just that I have trouble understanding what and why you are asking with your level of training in two martial arts. And I am trying to understand. As I said, I know almost nothing about TDK, but do claim some knowledge of Hapkido, and I am puzzled.
Thanks for whatever you can say to help me understand.
harlan
2nd Black Belt
Tez...kudos to you for being straight up.
I suspect some are being 'nice' because the poster is a woman. Frankly, if someone was to hop from one MA forum to another, marketing their self-defense videos, school and newletters based on no real credentials, the hammer would drop a lot harder on a man.
Oops...guess I'm being sexist.
I suspect some are being 'nice' because the poster is a woman. Frankly, if someone was to hop from one MA forum to another, marketing their self-defense videos, school and newletters based on no real credentials, the hammer would drop a lot harder on a man.
Oops...guess I'm being sexist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt8ViM-dq-M&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLDF4AE4A493ED5C0ATez...kudos to you for being straight up.
I suspect some are being 'nice' because the poster is a woman. Frankly, if someone was to hop from one MA forum to another, marketing their self-defense videos, school and newletters based on no real credentials, the hammer would drop a lot harder on a man.
Oops...guess I'm being sexist.
lol
:lurk:
yeah that'll work...not! If a man is attacking you the first thing he protects is his groin, though for the life of me I don't know why lol but I've seen fighters hit there and while it's painful they still carry on fighting. Not a technique to bank on, just like knee strikes against 'large angry attackers', not all attackers are large and certainly not all are angry not all are even men, I've had women swing at me before now. Generalisations don't cut it.
OP
Marcy Shoberg
Yellow Belt
- Thread Starter
- #47
I am in no way trying to sell you my self-defense videos, nor market my school to you, nor market my newsletter to you. Sorry if it came off that I way. I am intersted in discussing self-defense issues with other people who like to discuss self-defense issues. I do so because I want to understand as much as I can understand about self-defense. I just enjoy learning it and discussing it with other people. I also hope to continue working on a way to distill it down for those poor souls who, unlike you all on these forums, haven't decided to become self-defense experts. So, I give info about my projects here to get your opinions. I do not make projects for martial arts people, I make them for people who don't have the guts to learn a martial art. You are all invited to suggest for me things I should write about. Facebook friending me will get you on the list of people I most frequently solicit opinions from for my columns. Remember, it's fine to be facebook friends with me even if you don't actually like me!
PS Someone said if I was not a woman, you would be meaner to me. Honestly, I don't think many of you are all than nice now
PSS And thank you harlan for pointing out to me that I was coming off like I was trying to market things to you members. I assure you I was not.
PS Someone said if I was not a woman, you would be meaner to me. Honestly, I don't think many of you are all than nice now
PSS And thank you harlan for pointing out to me that I was coming off like I was trying to market things to you members. I assure you I was not.
I am in no way trying to sell you my self-defense videos, nor market my school to you, nor market my newsletter to you. Sorry if it came off that I way. I am intersted in discussing self-defense issues with other people who like to discuss self-defense issues. I do so because I want to understand as much as I can understand about self-defense. I just enjoy learning it and discussing it with other people. I also hope to continue working on a way to distill it down for those poor souls who, unlike you all on these forums, haven't decided to become self-defense experts. So, I give info about my projects here to get your opinions. I do not make projects for martial arts people, I make them for people who don't have the guts to learn a martial art. You are all invited to suggest for me things I should write about. Facebook friending me will get you on the list of people I most frequently solicit opinions from for my columns. Remember, it's fine to be facebook friends with me even if you don't actually like me!
PS Someone said if I was not a woman, you would be meaner to me. Honestly, I don't think many of you are all than nice now
PSS And thank you harlan for pointing out to me that I was coming off like I was trying to market things to you members. I assure you I was not.
Marcy, it's not a case of like or dislike but of peoples lives. You can't give them information they think will save their lives and it turns out that it won't. We aren't all 'self denfence' experts but a lot of us have experience 'on the streets' as it's crudely put, we know what works and what on't and I'm sorry simply readin stuff out of a book doesn't cut it.
Insulting people who 'haven't go the guts to do martial arts' is unnecessary and rather condescending as is the tone of your post, it's in bad taste. We aren't attacking you, you seem to not to want to share.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
The catch is, Marcy, that the perspective you are coming from (in terms of discussing self defence) is rather shallow, limited, and flawed. Believe me, we like discussing them, we really do. We've just been trying to get some idea of what level of understanding you have, as things have been, well, lacking. When the questions we asked were met with inaccurate vaguaries, and dodging of any actual answers, culminating in your "credentials" being put on your site, rather than actually answer those of us here who were the ones asking, we've pretty much decided/realized that you'd basically need to start again. Preferably with someone who can teach you more than just "moves".
And honestly, while I get the idea of "providing information to those who choose to not attend a school", as you feel they shouldn't miss out (you're not alone in that, by the way.. another member here, Chuck Johnson, who has a you-tube series called "How to Defeat Dudes", and is "martial arts/self defence for those who don't want to do martial arts classes"), is that you're targeting your material at people who aren't interested in it. It's like setting up a Steakhouse for vegetarians who choose not to eat steak, but you think everyone should get to taste it. If they're not interested, they're not interested. And all the information in the world out there won't change that. That kind of fundamental lack of understanding of your market is indicative of the entire set of issues with your approach here... you aren't seeing past what you personally believe, no matter how limited or flawed it is.
Add to that the major issues with the "information" you're presenting, combined with your seeming lack of ability to understand, or take on board the answers provided to you (on honestly incredibly basic, simple aspects of martial arts/self defence), and there's not going to be much "discussion" going on, I feel.
And honestly, while I get the idea of "providing information to those who choose to not attend a school", as you feel they shouldn't miss out (you're not alone in that, by the way.. another member here, Chuck Johnson, who has a you-tube series called "How to Defeat Dudes", and is "martial arts/self defence for those who don't want to do martial arts classes"), is that you're targeting your material at people who aren't interested in it. It's like setting up a Steakhouse for vegetarians who choose not to eat steak, but you think everyone should get to taste it. If they're not interested, they're not interested. And all the information in the world out there won't change that. That kind of fundamental lack of understanding of your market is indicative of the entire set of issues with your approach here... you aren't seeing past what you personally believe, no matter how limited or flawed it is.
Add to that the major issues with the "information" you're presenting, combined with your seeming lack of ability to understand, or take on board the answers provided to you (on honestly incredibly basic, simple aspects of martial arts/self defence), and there's not going to be much "discussion" going on, I feel.
oftheherd1
Senior Master
- Joined
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I am in no way trying to sell you my self-defense videos, nor market my school to you, nor market my newsletter to you. Sorry if it came off that I way. I am intersted in discussing self-defense issues with other people who like to discuss self-defense issues. I do so because I want to understand as much as I can understand about self-defense. I just enjoy learning it and discussing it with other people. I also hope to continue working on a way to distill it down for those poor souls who, unlike you all on these forums, haven't decided to become self-defense experts. So, I give info about my projects here to get your opinions. I do not make projects for martial arts people, I make them for people who don't have the guts to learn a martial art. You are all invited to suggest for me things I should write about. Facebook friending me will get you on the list of people I most frequently solicit opinions from for my columns. Remember, it's fine to be facebook friends with me even if you don't actually like me!
PS Someone said if I was not a woman, you would be meaner to me. Honestly, I don't think many of you are all than nice now
PSS And thank you harlan for pointing out to me that I was coming off like I was trying to market things to you members. I assure you I was not.
Nice that you aren't trying to promote yourself without paying (there is that option here on MT as you may have noticed, should you chose to do so). As to self defense, perhaps you could give more of your thoughts on self defense, and as importantly, your reasons for them. I would also appreciate you comments on my questions above.
I see the smiley on your comment about some here not being so nice. I hope that tells me you know some people can be quite honest, without sugar coating. Some here also have egos that come out. Even with that, many who post here, if you can look past the delivery, and see the message, you may find something worth thinking about. That even if you end up disagreeing. I often do that myself. But remember, most martial artists are, or become, type A personalities. I bet you are as well, more or less. Yes?
Anyway, don't be too put off by disagreements. And more, don't be too put off by delivery. You be yourself and let them be themselves. Just look at what they say. Of course, know that people here are doing the same. As I said, I believe you want to help people with self defense. Perhaps you are able to do so. But frankly, what you are saying, or how you are saying it, causes some confusion and/or doubt.
If you think anyone goes too far in a post, use the report to administrators function. Let that person be looked at, but be careful not to paint with too broad a brush.
Marcy,
Learning comes in many forms and at any stage of our training. Take the information on this thread and use it as a learning tool, and a self awareness, and grow from it. Once we get bogged down by criticism, our self growth is limited and we lose sight of any goal we may have had.
Everyone on this thread is well meaning, and all just want to help................... We are all students, and the best students are the ones that listen, and ask questions at the right time................
Learning comes in many forms and at any stage of our training. Take the information on this thread and use it as a learning tool, and a self awareness, and grow from it. Once we get bogged down by criticism, our self growth is limited and we lose sight of any goal we may have had.
Everyone on this thread is well meaning, and all just want to help................... We are all students, and the best students are the ones that listen, and ask questions at the right time................
harlan
2nd Black Belt
Your welcome.
Marcy, or 'gmtkd', from the sum total of your posts it seems that you have a had a few weeks of self-defense seminars, and your only exposure to Krav Maga is from reading a book. You learn your katas from video, due to a lack of available instruction in your area, and now you have come to the internet seeking to expand your knowledge for the benefit of your students.
Your desire is commendable...but your methods are not. I'm certain you are aware, from 'decades' of training in TKD, that the learning is in the doing. I would suggest that you listen, and hear the message: get some hands on training with qualified SD individuals and put the years into the mat before attempting to regurgitate the information.
Marcy, or 'gmtkd', from the sum total of your posts it seems that you have a had a few weeks of self-defense seminars, and your only exposure to Krav Maga is from reading a book. You learn your katas from video, due to a lack of available instruction in your area, and now you have come to the internet seeking to expand your knowledge for the benefit of your students.
Your desire is commendable...but your methods are not. I'm certain you are aware, from 'decades' of training in TKD, that the learning is in the doing. I would suggest that you listen, and hear the message: get some hands on training with qualified SD individuals and put the years into the mat before attempting to regurgitate the information.
I am in no way trying to sell you my self-defense videos, nor market my school to you, nor market my newsletter to you. Sorry if it came off that I way. I am intersted in discussing self-defense issues with other people who like to discuss self-defense issues. I do so because I want to understand as much as I can understand about self-defense. I just enjoy learning it and discussing it with other people. I also hope to continue working on a way to distill it down for those poor souls who, unlike you all on these forums, haven't decided to become self-defense experts. So, I give info about my projects here to get your opinions. I do not make projects for martial arts people, I make them for people who don't have the guts to learn a martial art. You are all invited to suggest for me things I should write about. Facebook friending me will get you on the list of people I most frequently solicit opinions from for my columns. Remember, it's fine to be facebook friends with me even if you don't actually like me!
PS Someone said if I was not a woman, you would be meaner to me. Honestly, I don't think many of you are all than nice now
PSS And thank you harlan for pointing out to me that I was coming off like I was trying to market things to you members. I assure you I was not.
grumpywolfman
Black Belt
- Joined
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- 561
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Hi Marcy,
I can appreciate a journalist's interest into a research work on self defense. I'm sure that there are individuals who are looking for a simple approach to self defense, and may not have an interest or the time to invest into a traditional system. Therefore, it does make sense to me that a quality martial arts forum with excellant traffic would be a good source for feedback.
I think some additional research in these areas would add some good insight into your work:
1) Field research some short term self-defense courses to compare (for example):
a) DVD Self Defense courses (such as Paul Vanuk, Kevin O'Hagan, Captain Chris, Guided Chaos, 'The Shredder')
b) local dojo self defense course
c) courses offered to the public by the Police
d) community college self-defense course
2) Consult state laws about legal consequances and laws regarding things like CCW, Pepper Spray, etc. Also, consider expediant weapons such as pens, a walking cane (check out 'Cane-Fu'), steel toe shoes, environmental awareness, etc..
Also, research statistics and news stories of violent crimes where self defense made a difference, and some that mention abuses of excessive force.
3) Interviews with L.E.O.s and the people that are taking the courses with you for additional feedback and subject matter.
4) Go to some free introductory classes that may be offered with an established system to self defense (some examples): Gracie Compatives BJJ; JKD; Wing Chun; Kenpo; Kajukenbo; Krav Maga
Dig in deep - take your time, and IMO you can produce a quality research article that can be worthy of professional publication
Good Luck to you! :cheers:
** Disclaimer: some people may immediately want to jump in to criticize some of my suggestions (such as the home study material). Please recognize that the DVD courses would be for additional material to review that her readers may have been considering.
I can appreciate a journalist's interest into a research work on self defense. I'm sure that there are individuals who are looking for a simple approach to self defense, and may not have an interest or the time to invest into a traditional system. Therefore, it does make sense to me that a quality martial arts forum with excellant traffic would be a good source for feedback.
I think some additional research in these areas would add some good insight into your work:
1) Field research some short term self-defense courses to compare (for example):
a) DVD Self Defense courses (such as Paul Vanuk, Kevin O'Hagan, Captain Chris, Guided Chaos, 'The Shredder')
b) local dojo self defense course
c) courses offered to the public by the Police
d) community college self-defense course
2) Consult state laws about legal consequances and laws regarding things like CCW, Pepper Spray, etc. Also, consider expediant weapons such as pens, a walking cane (check out 'Cane-Fu'), steel toe shoes, environmental awareness, etc..
Also, research statistics and news stories of violent crimes where self defense made a difference, and some that mention abuses of excessive force.
3) Interviews with L.E.O.s and the people that are taking the courses with you for additional feedback and subject matter.
4) Go to some free introductory classes that may be offered with an established system to self defense (some examples): Gracie Compatives BJJ; JKD; Wing Chun; Kenpo; Kajukenbo; Krav Maga
Dig in deep - take your time, and IMO you can produce a quality research article that can be worthy of professional publication
Good Luck to you! :cheers:
** Disclaimer: some people may immediately want to jump in to criticize some of my suggestions (such as the home study material). Please recognize that the DVD courses would be for additional material to review that her readers may have been considering.
harlan
2nd Black Belt
Marcy is a 40 year old 5th dan, with her own dojo with 'decades' of training in her primary arts, and teaching self-defense as an adjunct. I think the writing is an area that she would like to expand into, but my primary concern is that she is, by her writing and position as a teacher, is going to be perceived as an authority. By accident or not, it's important for her to know that this is the mantle she has assumed and her responsiblity to her students, and others that purchase her dvd's, is to make sure they are aware of the limitations of her training.
I would not be so strongly voicing an opinion if this was the case of a newly minted shodan, with half the experience. I am looking at Marcy as a senior to myself, entering the world of 'the big boys', and direct speaking is expected.
I would not be so strongly voicing an opinion if this was the case of a newly minted shodan, with half the experience. I am looking at Marcy as a senior to myself, entering the world of 'the big boys', and direct speaking is expected.
Hi Marcy,
I can appreciate a journalist's interest into a research work on self defense. I'm sure that there are individuals who are looking for a simple approach to self defense, and may not have an interest or the time to invest into a traditional system. Therefore, it does make sense to me that a quality martial arts forum with excellant traffic would be a good source for feedback.
I think some additional research in these areas would add some good insight into your work:
1) Field research some short term self-defense courses to compare (for example):
a) DVD Self Defense courses (such as Paul Vanuk, Kevin O'Hagan, Captain Chris, Guided Chaos, 'The Shredder')
b) local dojo self defense course
c) courses offered to the public by the Police
d) community college self-defense course
2) Consult state laws about legal consequances and laws regarding things like CCW, Pepper Spray, etc. Also, consider expediant weapons such as pens, a walking cane (check out 'Cane-Fu'), steel toe shoes, environmental awareness, etc..
Also, research statistics and news stories of violent crimes where self defense made a difference, and some that mention abuses of excessive force.
3) Interviews with L.E.O.s and the people that are taking the courses with you for additional feedback and subject matter.
4) Go to some free introductory classes that may be offered with an established system to self defense (some examples): Gracie Compatives BJJ; JKD; Wing Chun; Kenpo; Kajukenbo; Krav Maga
Dig in deep - take your time, and IMO you can produce a quality research article that can be worthy of professional publication
Good Luck to you! :cheers:
** Disclaimer: some people may immediately want to jump in to criticize some of my suggestions (such as the home study material). Please recognize that the DVD courses would be for additional material to review that her readers may have been considering.
grumpywolfman
Black Belt
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2012
- Messages
- 561
- Reaction score
- 13
oops, my bad - sorry
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi Marcy,
I can appreciate a journalist's interest into a research work on self defense. I'm sure that there are individuals who are looking for a simple approach to self defense, and may not have an interest or the time to invest into a traditional system. Therefore, it does make sense to me that a quality martial arts forum with excellant traffic would be a good source for feedback.
I think some additional research in these areas would add some good insight into your work:
1) Field research some short term self-defense courses to compare (for example):
a) DVD Self Defense courses (such as Paul Vanuk, Kevin O'Hagan, Captain Chris, Guided Chaos, 'The Shredder')
b) local dojo self defense course
c) courses offered to the public by the Police
d) community college self-defense course
2) Consult state laws about legal consequances and laws regarding things like CCW, Pepper Spray, etc. Also, consider expediant weapons such as pens, a walking cane (check out 'Cane-Fu'), steel toe shoes, environmental awareness, etc..
Also, research statistics and news stories of violent crimes where self defense made a difference, and some that mention abuses of excessive force.
3) Interviews with L.E.O.s and the people that are taking the courses with you for additional feedback and subject matter.
4) Go to some free introductory classes that may be offered with an established system to self defense (some examples): Gracie Compatives BJJ; JKD; Wing Chun; Kenpo; Kajukenbo; Krav Maga
Dig in deep - take your time, and IMO you can produce a quality research article that can be worthy of professional publication
Good Luck to you! :cheers:
** Disclaimer: some people may immediately want to jump in to criticize some of my suggestions (such as the home study material). Please recognize that the DVD courses would be for additional material to review that her readers may have been considering.
Just to add to Harlan's post, Marcy has described herself as follows on another forum:
Marcy Shoberg said:
As you can see, she already considers herself a writer, but I don't think she has mentioned anywhere about being a "journalist". She has mentioned a number of times that she "prefers Krav Maga", even though her admitted exposure to it is reading three books (yet she teaches it... hmm). So while I think your advice is well meaning, she thinks she already has the answers, so I doubt it'll be taken on board. And frankly, I'm not really sold on the idea of encouraging her to find ways to bolster her "credentials" until she puts in at least some effort in knowing what she's talking about. To give an idea of the level of "research" she engages in, she stated on the other forum that she had "researched deeply" into stretching methods... which amounted to reading at least ten articles on the internet. "Researched deeply"? Are you kidding me?
Oh, and if you're going to advise DVD courses, as Marcy has shown no real ability to discern good from bad from useless, and can only really see "techniques" from everything she's put forth, I really wouldn't have such highly questionable ones such as "Captain Chris" in there.... amongst others. It'll only confuse things more.
harlan
2nd Black Belt
With respect, Chris, and a head's up to forum members: I think that there is some weird auto-function going on.
I wrote 'krav maga' in a post - and something added an arbitrary link to books. Something I would never have done. Hovering the mouse over Grumpies link...it appears to be the same thing going on.
I wrote 'krav maga' in a post - and something added an arbitrary link to books. Something I would never have done. Hovering the mouse over Grumpies link...it appears to be the same thing going on.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
If you check Bob's thread on "Possible Advertising Expansion", it addresses the way that's happening. For the record, I don't get any links in anyones... maybe being a Supporting Member keeps them out for me.
To be honest, I'm not even sure what the heck the focus of this thread is anymore. One minute we're talking about arts that're defensive and offensive, and now we're talking about skill sets...lol.
I gave my interpretation of what I feel SD is, of course, I'm sure other people will have different opinions, which is fine.
OTOH, anyone who claims to be teaching/training for any serious length of time, should not be asking or have to ask, the question that you just did. Teaching SD skills, IMHO, is fairly simple. I teach Kenpo. I've trained in it for 26yrs. I've taught numerous people how to defend themselves. I'd like to think that someone such as yourself, thats claiming 2 5th dans in 2 different arts, should be capable of teaching SD. There's another member on here, Zenjael, who also seems to think that a huge collection of techniques, is somehow the key to success. News flash...its not! You can know a million techs, but if you don't know how to apply them, how to make them work, if you dont understand the basics, the concepts, the ideas, and the principles, that the arts teach, then I'm sorry to say, but those people will most likely get their *** kicked. LOL! Sad but very true. Sorry, but its the hands-on skills that matter, not reading about something. I too, have read numerous Krav Maga books, yet I don't claim to be an expert in it. Reading about something, IMHO, isn't the same as actual hands on experience. I could read a cook book, but thats not going to make me an expert chef. I could read about rewiring my home, but I'd never do it, because you don't learn from a book.
I does, it's the same for me or else I'd be writing ..'knickers'... just to see what shows, perhaps it does for non supporting members :wink1:
