Anybody lift weights as a form of cross training for martial arts? I've heard some criticism from martial artists against weightlifting, that it can make you too big and too musclebound which can sometimes be detrimental in that it can slow you down and hamper your movement.
Weightlifting for martial arts
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
- Start date
That's incredibly ridiculous and ignorant from people looking to excuse their own laziness.
Lifting will increase flexibility, resting metabolism, reaction time, twitch muscle ability, and reduce injury from MA training.
You don't need to do isolated muscle group lifts like curls. That will increase some strength, especially if you don't work out much, but it's mostly for cosmetic purposes like bonds building.
You should focus on whole-body lifts that recruit multiple muscle patterns to accomplish. I recommend:
Deadlift
Bench Press
Pendlay Rows
Back squats (and front squats)
Standing Overhead press
Do low reps and sets, a 5x5 is a good starting point. Do heavier weight so you are targeting our neurovascular system, and not just pumping blood and oxygen into your muscles and making them look big (which is what happens when you do iso. Be aware if you are new to lifting you will probably feel a pump when you first start, regardless of sets/reps).
Have lots of rest. Don't try to max out on weight more than once every month or two.
I recommend the Stronglift 5x5 program. It's free, has an app, and has form videos. Do that for a good while, and once you get a little experience and knowledge (maybe a year or so), you can start to modify it with other stuff.
Try to find a lifting partner that knows what they are doing.
You are never going to get big enough for it to effect your MA performance negatively unless you adhere to insanely strict diet and diet supplementation (like creatine, etc).
Im talking about weightlifting. Specifically what kind of weightlifting, whether its for bodybuilding or strength training, for the martial arts I would emphasize strength training.
I agree, that weightlifting can bring tremendous benefits for martial arts although Im not sure that everybody who is against it is because they're lazy. Some martial artists are concerned about becoming too much like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime which would be detrimental. I myself am a big fan of weightlifting. That being said I also agree with you about most of the weightlifting exercises you recommend particularly the back squat, my all time favorite weightlifting exercise although also one of the most hated. I am not a big fan of the bench press and lots of weightlifters will say that particular lift is highly overrated. I used to bench press but now I do flyers with dumbbells instead, I find it overall better and it hits more muscles. Sometimes I will do flyers with kettle bells which I find works better still.
I agree that a 5x5 program is really good, particularly for somebody just starting out. Powerlifting, where you lift as much as you possibly can for just a few reps is probably not a good idea for the martial artist as it can be detrimental and you can hurt yourself. And rest is important, I would recommend lifting three days a week so you get good rest.
Definitely not a realistic worry unless you have the genetics and put a whole lot of work into a specialized diet and training program devoted towards that goal.
+1 for the Stronglift 5X5 program. If you've not seriously lifted weights before this is an excellent starting point. The SL 5X5 program is a strength and mass workout and if taken seriously WILL add both that is noticeable within 2-3 months. Again, if you take it seriously and commit to it.
For a brief summary, there are two workouts with SL 5X5 (as originally presented):
Workout A
Squats 5X5
Bench 5X5
Bent row 5X5
Dips 3 sets to failure
Note that 5X5 means five sets that consist of five repetitions each.
Workout B
Squats 5X5
Deadlift 1X5
Overhead press 5X5
Pull up and/or chin ups 3 sets to failure
If you've never worked out before, or it's been a long time, the recommendation is to begin with JUST the Olympic bar ONLY (which is 45lbs). You will then increase the weight by 5lbs each and every time you lift. As an example, you will be squatting each and every workout for three times a week. Let's say Monday-Wednesday-Friday) so on Monday you'll squat with JUST the 45lbs bar for 5 sets of 5 reps each (total of 25 reps). On Wednesday you'll add 2.5lbs to each side of the bar so you'll be squatting 50lbs for 5X5. And on Friday you'll add another 2.5lbs to each side so you're squatting 55lbs for 5X5. You'll add 60lbs to your squat the first month, 120lbs the second month and 180lbs by the end of the third month. So if you started with just the bar, by the end of the third month you should be squatting 225lbs for 5X5.
The other lifts will also add 5lbs per workout but will go up a bit less as you're only performing them 1 or 2 times a week. The program is built around the squat which uses about 70% of your total muscle mass. You use more that just your legs in a squat. You use glutes (butt), abs, chest, upper and lower back. It is the best overall lift you can do.
Your goal for the SL 5X5 is to be able to squat 1.5 times your body weight, bench 1 times your body weight and press overhead .75% of your body weight.
After you've accomplished these goals you can try a different program if you wish, and you probably should. Lots of options such as GVT which is 10X10 but it will depend upon your goal.
Unless you pump your body with steroids you're not going to look like the roid-mutants i.e. like someone shoved an air hose up your butt and over inflated you. You will however add mass, burn fat and gain strength depending upon you workout. Quick and general example; high weight and low reps (say 1-5 reps) develops strength and mass. Moderate weight and moderate reps(say 6-12 reps) develops muscularity and lean. Low weight and high reps develops that 'toned' look (say 12-20+). These are generalities and a lot depends on diet as well.
Look up the YT channel Athlean X for some great tips on lifting. I've gained some very useful additions to my workout from this guy.
You'd have a very, very hard time finding any elite athlete in any sport that doesn't do some form of weight training. It's not going to make you slow unless you are going about it completely wrong. Do it right and it will greatly improve your speed, mobility and resistance to injury. The problem is not knowing what to do. Ask any experienced martial artist if you should learn martial arts without a instructor and the majority will say its a bad idea, but the majority will assume they are capable of developing a S&C routine specific to martial arts without any background in fitness.
Personally I think not including a solid S&C program in your training is a bad idea, it will lead to more injuries and less effective training.
Personally I think not including a solid S&C program in your training is a bad idea, it will lead to more injuries and less effective training.
Danny T
Senior Master
Weight lifting is an excellent way to strengthen the joints and muscles when done properly. No you will not get big like Arnold unless you do body building workouts. Arnold was a 'Body Builder' not just a weight lifter.
The powerlifting parameters we are talking about set up a physical base from which you train. it improves your overall ability to function physically, and your overall ability to endure physical activities while maintaining health.
All your actual training should be on the mat, and stay on the mat. Never replicate movement patterns from the dojo, in the gym... especially with added resistance. When you constantly do these repetitive patterns in training, you can create pattern overload and even muscle viruses. When you go in the gym, you are correcting those patterns from the dojo and evening your body back out to stay health and prevent injury. Think like the football player who focuses on forward-bursting plyo metrics and only lifts leg extensions. The back of his leg becomes underdeveloped and gets blown out.
Most importantly, this is only any good if you have good form. and most of the form you see online and at the gym is pretty poor.
I would argue bench press, along with squat and deadlift, are the three most necessary lifts. BP is a whole body workout that strengthens your body's ability to push electrical signals to your muscles, which increases everything from strength and coordination, to reaction time. When benching like that, you should be set up like a spring in the bench...if someone pushes on you, you shouldn't be able to be easily moved. Points of contact being the toes, butt, and tightly pinched shoulder blades. Bar should drive from bottom part of chest and elbows should be around a 45 degree angle. This forces your entire being to put all of it's energy into one point, ruminating from the ground and through the bar. I would look at Olympic lift techniques, particularly Westside Barbell from Columbus OH (you don't have to arch your back as much as they do, their main goal is competition and that helps, but the fundamentals are sound).
Didn't realize 5x5 added dips and pull-ups. That's awesome.
All your actual training should be on the mat, and stay on the mat. Never replicate movement patterns from the dojo, in the gym... especially with added resistance. When you constantly do these repetitive patterns in training, you can create pattern overload and even muscle viruses. When you go in the gym, you are correcting those patterns from the dojo and evening your body back out to stay health and prevent injury. Think like the football player who focuses on forward-bursting plyo metrics and only lifts leg extensions. The back of his leg becomes underdeveloped and gets blown out.
Most importantly, this is only any good if you have good form. and most of the form you see online and at the gym is pretty poor.
I would argue bench press, along with squat and deadlift, are the three most necessary lifts. BP is a whole body workout that strengthens your body's ability to push electrical signals to your muscles, which increases everything from strength and coordination, to reaction time. When benching like that, you should be set up like a spring in the bench...if someone pushes on you, you shouldn't be able to be easily moved. Points of contact being the toes, butt, and tightly pinched shoulder blades. Bar should drive from bottom part of chest and elbows should be around a 45 degree angle. This forces your entire being to put all of it's energy into one point, ruminating from the ground and through the bar. I would look at Olympic lift techniques, particularly Westside Barbell from Columbus OH (you don't have to arch your back as much as they do, their main goal is competition and that helps, but the fundamentals are sound).
Didn't realize 5x5 added dips and pull-ups. That's awesome.
There is a difference between strength training and body building. Strength training is good. Bulk for bulks sake, not so much.
Nobody accidentally overtrains their strength training and winds up looking like Arnold.
So long as your workouts are properly designed, you won't get "muscle bound." Of course, if you neglect stretching and other mobility training -- you'll have problems. But then, you'd have those problems if you did that and didn't lift, too!
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
and steroids.
lets just mention how a lot of that sise is gained. Just for all those martial artists out there afraid to lift heavy
Danny T
Senior Master
I'm 5'7" weight 160-165lbs age 60.
Lifted through out my life starting around 14 for strengthening after having been down from a broken leg in football. Have done strength training in some form most of my life. Still lifting. Though not as strong today as when in my prime but can still military press my body weight and bench 250. Leg press 640. Am not bulked and still much more flexible than most people I know. I also do a lot of kettlebell weight training. Excellent strength and cardio workout.
Lifted through out my life starting around 14 for strengthening after having been down from a broken leg in football. Have done strength training in some form most of my life. Still lifting. Though not as strong today as when in my prime but can still military press my body weight and bench 250. Leg press 640. Am not bulked and still much more flexible than most people I know. I also do a lot of kettlebell weight training. Excellent strength and cardio workout.
D
Deleted member 32980
Guest
If one does so, they are probably losing the Tao of Martial arts. They may need to meditate to think about it.
Have you seen Sylvester Stallone? In the last Rambo and Rocky films he was about your age and he was at least as big as he was in the first films, if not bigger.
D
Deleted member 32980
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Stallone
Furrigno
Swartenegger
Furrigno
Swartenegger
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