Why do many traditional martial artists look down on weighlifting (some even calling it EASY)?

Tez3

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"Perturb your sensitivity" ? I find that hillarious! ...Oh, and I totally understand. I got really into lifting for a while and, even though I was loathe to admit it, it messed with ...no, it perturbed my chi sau -- a Wing Chun training exercise that demands a high level of sisitivity and responsiveness.



This was pretty much what my old Chinese sifu said about body-building and Wing Chun. It can really get in the way of reaching the highest levels of skill. On the other hand, if you are going to fight, it absolutely helps to be strong. This guy was one of the fighters in our system. Of course, he never touched weights. ;)

emin-boztepe-10.jpg
;)


Is he single?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I just do not understand why it is NECESSARY for your MA?
Old Chinese saying said, "Strength count for 10 best techniques." When you get old, you will lose your bone density. You will have no choice but to work on weight. Also there are some skills that require special muscle development. The proper weight equipment is the the "only" way to develop those skills. The weight training can "enhance" your skill.
 
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geezer

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Is he single?

Forget it Tez. That's a really old picture. That was then:

upload_2015-3-17_17-18-44.png



He looks more like this now:


upload_2015-3-17_17-22-17.png



Besides, didn't you tell us that you are already married to a hunky military officer?

BTW your new avatar --that grumpy-looking cat is perfect. It reflects the inner you. Love it!
 

Shai Hulud

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I could stat citing a few of the sillier myths martial artists sometimes believe with regard to weight training, like how it slows you down, or leads you to rely more on strength than technique, that sort of thing.

Personally, I don't really mind how people choose to train in their styles. Their form of self-expression, not mine. Stoic as that may be however, ultimately it boils down to what we want out of our art.

People with more conservative views on the MA's (perhaps TMA's), or those just looking for a simple hobby, I'd understand if they couldn't be bothered to deal with it. For others though, such as myself, I want solid dividends from my practice in the form of self-defense skills and advanced level of fitness. Many people from both camps. I just don't like imposing on others. :)
 

Tez3

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Forget it Tez. That's a really old picture. That was then:




He looks more like this now:





Besides, didn't you tell us that you are already married to a hunky military officer?

BTW your new avatar --that grumpy-looking cat is perfect. It reflects the inner you. Love it!


Ah age catches us all up eventually.

My avatar is me channelling my inner grumpy cat. ;)
I find as one gets older one gets a sense that one is not going to be around for ever, husband's heart attack a few weeks ago confirms this ( he's ok now, just grumpy like me ) that time is increasingly precious and life is too short to read unintelligible English, macho posturing and 'look aren't I great' posts :D:D
 

Xue Sheng

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Ah age catches us all up eventually.

My avatar is me channelling my inner grumpy cat. ;)
I find as one gets older one gets a sense that one is not going to be around for ever, husband's heart attack a few weeks ago confirms this ( he's ok now, just grumpy like me ) that time is increasingly precious and life is too short to read unintelligible English, macho posturing and 'look aren't I great' posts :D:D

Well then, based on that my Avatar should probably be

Getty_110512_GrizzlyBear.jpg


:D
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Mine might be some thing like this then.... Yes, with the open mouth and fangs all a blazing. ;)
 

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23rdwave

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Catch wrestler Karl Gotch's favorite workout was known as Gotch's Bible.

You take a deck of cards.. leave two Jokers in..
Shuffle really good..

Black cards are squats and red cards are push-ups.

Every time you deal a black card, you do twice the amount of repetitions as the face value of the dealt card. This means, if you get a black 8, you do 16 squats. If you get a black Ace, you do 22 squats.

Spades are regular Hindu Squats, Clubs are Jumper Squats.

The first Joker you pull means you do 40 hindu-squats consecutively.

Every time you get a red card, you do push-ups. This time you do the actual value of the face card. If you get a red 8, you do 8 push-ups. If you get a red Ace, you do 11 push-ups.

Diamonds are regular Hindu Push-Ups, Hearts are 1/2 Moon Push-Ups.
The second Joker you pull means you do 20 push-ups consecutively.

Work your way up to completing a deck or keep track of the time it takes you to do a deck.
Then do a wrestler's bridge with the best form possible try to hold it for as long as three minutes.

Karl would do 2 decks back to back, iirc.
 

Shai Hulud

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Catch wrestler Karl Gotch's favorite workout was known as Gotch's Bible.

You take a deck of cards.. leave two Jokers in..
Shuffle really good..

Black cards are squats and red cards are push-ups.

Every time you deal a black card, you do twice the amount of repetitions as the face value of the dealt card. This means, if you get a black 8, you do 16 squats. If you get a black Ace, you do 22 squats.

Spades are regular Hindu Squats, Clubs are Jumper Squats.

The first Joker you pull means you do 40 hindu-squats consecutively.

Every time you get a red card, you do push-ups. This time you do the actual value of the face card. If you get a red 8, you do 8 push-ups. If you get a red Ace, you do 11 push-ups.

Diamonds are regular Hindu Push-Ups, Hearts are 1/2 Moon Push-Ups.
The second Joker you pull means you do 20 push-ups consecutively.

Work your way up to completing a deck or keep track of the time it takes you to do a deck.
Then do a wrestler's bridge with the best form possible try to hold it for as long as three minutes.

Karl would do 2 decks back to back, iirc.
I've heard of people doing this before.
Sounded so edgy I just gave it a shot. Everything hurts. I have a few hours to recover before class later. Bollocks, this.
 

Tez3

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Sounded so edgy I just gave it a shot. Everything hurts. I have a few hours to recover before class later. Bollocks, this.


Oh dear, I've only heard of people doing it, never tried it, sounds like I was right! Hope you recover soon!
 

crazydiamond

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For some from the outside - everything seems not too hard until the try it. I mean I lift a far amount - but the calisthenics (body weight) exercises work you slightly differently than iron and I appreciate both. Also many people say yoga "is easy" and a girls thing - and I can tell you it wipe you out. But I still hate jogging... :) its hard for me as a big guy, but necessary for endurance in MA class.

Our instructors like to include various conditioning work before class. Including the Tabbata stuff that is all the rage these days.

You benefit from Multiple exercise types in MA.
 

PhotonGuy

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Even popular media depicts weightlifting as being incredibly easy and a popular trope is the skinny nerdy boy who gets bullied daily going into a a gym and in a few weeks or even days later they are muscular enough to KO their bullies in one hit!
In that case weightlifting is depicted as being effective, and it is if done properly but from years of weightlifting experience I can tell you it is not easy. With weightlifting, your body really takes a pounding. I would say weightlifting is one of those activities where you take lots of punishment.
 

Tgace

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In that case weightlifting is depicted as being effective, and it is if done properly but from years of weightlifting experience I can tell you it is not easy. With weightlifting, your body really takes a pounding. I would say weightlifting is one of those activities where you take lots of punishment.
That really depends on your program...
 

Hanzou

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I am curious why all this? Especially when many TMAs and old masters emphasize manual labor and exercises that would of build similar physical bodies and strength of modern weightlifters?
Because strength is an advantage, and at higher levels, strength can overcome skill. You also have beta males who never played sports, never got to go to the big dance with the pretty girl, or got bullied heavily (which is probably why they started taking martial arts in the first place). Thus, they tend to resent larger, stronger men.
 

Langenschwert

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I've heard of people doing this before.

We do similar things in our club. We rotate the exercises that the cards represent from class to class. Face cards are 10 reps, all others the number on the card. If an ace is drawn, you double the next card. If a Joker is drawn, you triple the next card. There's nothing quite like an ace, followed by a Joker, followed by a face card. We've had that happen a few times. Good fun!
 

Milo of Croton

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Maybe the traditions/societies in which these TMA's developed didn't recognize weightlifting? I certainly wouldn't call it easy. I have seen people get sidetracked by weightlifting though, as if the mere fact of just being able to lift heavier would help them in their chosen art. The strength has to be technique-specific and applied for it to matter.

That's all I'm about to say though. I train with nothing but calisthenics and isometrics.
 

JowGaWolf

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notice there is a stigma in among traditional martial artists that weightlifting is useless and that its the easiest method of strength training.
I think it's more of an issue about function strength than about weightlifting. The new thing these days with weight lifting is centered around functional strength. Many people who body build lack functional strength. Functional strength is what you need in order to be stronger physically in martial arts.
This is a perfect example of functional strength vs "body building strength" I believe this is what the traditional artist is referring to. The shaking in his arms and wrists highlights where the weak muscles are. The difference between the old traditional martial artist and modern bodybuilders is that the body builders don't train for functional use as much as they do for bulking up.
 

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