Vote: Reorganized Reputation System.

[Bob Hubbard]

You dont think its a good possibility that moderators get more rep points, possibly from users hoping to make a good impression? Or, the flipside, they dont get negatively repped as much, because a member doesn't want to risk the "wrath" of a mod?

Ella,
You're basically saying that the moderators are abusing their power. Every check I've made recently says this isn't so. We've had few cases of that happening over the years, and when it's happened, it's been reversed and their rep abilities restricted or even removed.

One other important point - staff aren't allowed to turn their rep displays off. Supporting members can, but staff aren't allowed.

Whenever someone says "someones abusing the system" I review it. I look not only at what you got, but at what each person who recently repped you has done/received. Patterns of abuse are actually easy to spot when you know what you are looking at. I've often found that the person screaming abuse has been hurling it themselves but no one had yet complained. Or that someone's been sending love notes. In 1 old case, some rather inappropriate comments were being directed at several of our female members by a now former member. But, it's an unmoderated system. Unless someone says "please check my rep out I think theres a problem" we really don't sit here and read through it.

For kicks, I just did though, read through the 40 assorted comments made on the 15th. 22 People left 40 reps for 36 people. 6 Negative, 1 zero, 33 Positive. 4 had no notes, 31 were signed, 9 weren't. Only 2 could be construed as rude, but were minor and I don't feel like nitpicking. Based on past 1 day looks, it's a pretty typical snapshot.

Highest rep hit was 928, lowest was 20.

Now, were there vitally important nugget of wisdom in there that folks would die without? Nope. Most fell into the "good post/bad post" type....all the 'attaboy' fluff we don't want clogging up our "meat" posts, since some folks want all meat and can't stand that warm-human-contact stuff. Damn stuffy geeks, need to get out more and kiss a few girls in my opinion, but I digress.


Now, the system is broke, because it is un balanced. A newb comes in, can't kill a fly. Me, I move mountains. But, is it fair to penalize me since I've been here 8 years and have put in the time? Most of the folks with high rep here, have been here a hell of a long time, and are very active posters. Why should we handcuff them, or strip them of "rank" just to even the playing field?

I've seen people come in here, and in a short time, get those stars, because they contribute thought provoking commentary, follow the site rules and help others who are struggling with them, and go above and beyond to help others out.

On the other hand, I've seen absolute losers come in here, try to wave some rank around and let us know how real important they are and how much we all suck, get neg repped into the ground.

The system works the way it's meant to....it just doesn't have a "top level" so folks keep going up. Maybe all it needs is a cap at X on power.


On the other hand, yeah I have seen folks beg for rep, or offer it. I've seen folks offer it to people who sign up to support this site with a supporting membership or a gold-key membership. I don't participate in that, but can't fault them for adding a bit of a thank you to those folks who do help keep us running.


Bottom line - might need a few tweaks to correct some imbalances, report abuse and it will be looked into, abuse the system and you lose points and privileges.

Back to the voting.

 

[terryl965]

Sorry I have to add one more thing to the powers to be:

What is next take away post counts that have nothing to do with Martial Arts. I'm sorry I'am pissed about this, if you cannot tell. My god, my son Caleb who is ten just said to me why does this matter so much daddy, if it brothers people, did you not tell me that we cannot make everybody happy all the time but try to see the best in everyone and everything. Now if he can see pass this so can we.

Like I said sorry this crap is just so uncalled for in my humble but honest opinion.

 

[Sapper6]

...EVERYONE has fields of yellow.

I mean, come on. Look at me, for instance. I have less than 3 years of training in the martial arts, I'm less than 25 years old... I still live at home for godsakes.

It's probably a safe bet that I don't know anything... about anything...

But you have two moderators rep you once for something clever you said, and look what you get?

I dont need to be walking around doing 96 points of damage, because my opinion really shouldn't be worth that much.

sounds like you have a confidence issue...

no really, why get bent over something so minute?

you've been a member for only a few months and look at your rep. geez, if i knew all i had to do is gripe about the rep system to get rep points, i would have done that a long time ago.

in all seriousness, the people here with high reputation deserve it. there's no need for jealousy. there's plenty other things that bring folks to MartialTalk. i don't think anyone is here 'cause the reputation flows like milk and honey. i'm here for the penguin bashing game in the arcade...and maybe a little martial arts reading in between games.

cheers,

 

[Bob Hubbard]

"What is next take away post counts that have nothing to do with Martial Arts."

We used to not count posts in certain forums for that reason. I decided, give em all credit, a post is a post.

In the end, your rank, rep/karma, or post count on a message board isn't worth anything elsewhere. You can't take your MT rank over to MAP and exchange it for MAP rank, and your rep here may be the opposite of what it is elsewhere.

I keep score based on how many supporting members we have, how many gold key club members we have, how many sponsors we have. That's money, and that's transferable. I keep score by looking at our web stats and seeing how many tens of thousands of people visit us each month, how many gigs of data and how many thousands of pages we serve each month. That's bragging rights. LOL.

But rep, rank, postcount? Naw. I can spend all say exchanging 1 liners in the last person thread and earn those. Doesn't translate to anything tangible other than I hung out with my friends. I can spend all day arguing inthe study. Doesn't translate to anything other than I'm a master debater. But I can post 1 solid make-you-think-hard topic under any art heading, step back and watch the countless talented people we have here take my seed and turn it into an incredible discussion and debate, and earn the satisfaction of knowing folk find the site useful and fufilling. To me, that's worth more than even money.


I run polls like this on occation to see where folks thoughts are. It helps me to decide where we need to go and what we need to consider. The poll right now seems to lean towards staying the same as we are. That may change. I dunno. But, it's all good and it's all food for thought.

 

[grydth]

Got to disagree on some of your points, Terry.

If I have an issue with you, or anyone else, the proper ways to handle it are via a PM or a public post here. Allowing cowards and sneaks to post anonymous digs via negative reps, then sneak off giggling .... that serves nobody nor does it serve the Forum.

I have never given negative rep and i won't do it to you. I prefer to handle things straight up, lookin' at ya. I would guess that's the type person you and most others here are. The real nay sayers aren't on this thread, they are of the same ilk as those who key your car door in the night.

To say no changes should be made because perfection will never be attained... well, that notion would frustrate most human endeavors.

I disagree that the nay sayers are not adults or are whiners. Bob Hubbard posted a poll and we, like you, voted and gave our reasons. I can take being called a child, but too many disputes in this country that should be reasoned out and worked out are ending with "the other side must be..."

Sometimes one's true friends are the ones who disagree with you. That's one way we learn. I have somebody at work I value highly, because she is loyal enough and dedicated enough to tell me when I'm full of **.

Just my 82c.

 

[bluemtn]

My problem is (not directly with rep.), that I'm seeing both sides of the "argument". My view is, it's a pretty cool thing to have, and it shouldn't be about popularity, and I don't think it is in most cases. I give reputation for several reasons, too.

I can live with or without them, honestly.

 

[Ella]

Ella,
You're basically saying that the moderators are abusing their power.

Not what I meant.

When I say someone may not want to negatively rep a mod or admin, for fear of wrath, I don't mean that they (the admin or mod) would actually do anything.

Say I disagree with a post you have written, negative rep you, and reply to your post. Then you negatively rep me back. I've made your rep points go down by 90 and you've put me in the red.

Whether or not you actually DO it isn't my point. being able to single-handedly put someone in the red isn't a good thing. It would make me think twice about disagreeing with a moderator or admin.

For that matter, an average user such as myself could put a newbie in the red if they made one off color remark.

 

[MJS]

Not what I meant.

When I say someone may not want to negatively rep a mod or admin, for fear of wrath, I don't mean that they (the admin or mod) would actually do anything.

Say I disagree with a post you have written, negative rep you, and reply to your post. Then you negatively rep me back. I've made your rep points go down by 90 and you've put me in the red.

Whether or not you actually DO it isn't my point. being able to single-handedly put someone in the red isn't a good thing. It would make me think twice about disagreeing with a moderator or admin.

For that matter, an average user such as myself could put a newbie in the red if they made one off color remark.

Isn't your last paragraph a bit contradictory? You're talking about forum staff being able to put someone into the red with one hit, but you yourself just said that you could do the same thing to a new member.

Ella, you seem a bit bent on this rep issue. We (the Steering Board) are currently working on solutions. Rather than continue to argue, let it rest, cast your vote if you haven't and wait it out to see what happens. Going back and forth isn't helping the cause or giving a solution.

 

[terryl965]

Got to disagree on some of your points, Terry.

If I have an issue with you, or anyone else, the proper ways to handle it are via a PM or a public post here. Allowing cowards and sneaks to post anonymous digs via negative reps, then sneak off giggling .... that serves nobody nor does it serve the Forum.

I have never given negative rep and i won't do it to you. I prefer to handle things straight up, lookin' at ya. I would guess that's the type person you and most others here are. The real nay sayers aren't on this thread, they are of the same ilk as those who key your car door in the night.

To say no changes should be made because perfection will never be attained... well, that notion would frustrate most human endeavors.

I disagree that the nay sayers are not adults or are whiners. Bob Hubbard posted a poll and we, like you, voted and gave our reasons. I can take being called a child, but too many disputes in this country that should be reasoned out and worked out are ending with "the other side must be..."

Sometimes one's true friends are the ones who disagree with you. That's one way we learn. I have somebody at work I value highly, because she is loyal enough and dedicated enough to tell me when I'm full of **.

Just my 82c.

Man .82 cents that is alot of cents for one post, but in all serioness here we all have our opinions and yes it should be counted and I appreciate you for being so forward and I guess you towards me. I like the system the good the bad the ugly, it is all good. I just had to say what was on my mind. I'm also glad not everyone agree's with me if everybody did what fun would this world be.

 

[Sukerkin]

I have to say that I haven't often seen signs of negative repping.

All I can report having observed is a really obnoxious member a while ago who thoroughly deserved getting lambasted with negative rep, or a recent occaision of a couple of relative newcomers to the board tearing into each other before noticing that that's not how we do things around here.

Maybe I have rose-tinted glasses on but I perceive the rep system, as I've stated before, as both a way of affirming someones point of view without a needless "Me too!" post and also as a positive reinforcement tool. So if someone makes a good point on some topic, I'll quite happily put together a short comment in a rep-buff to let them know how well received their words were.

I've never used negative rep and I plan on never having to. If someone makes a statement I disagree with then I may try to reason the point through with them but, if it's clear that an accomodation cannot be reached then I'll just leave well alone - if the poster is becoming aggressive, abusive or otherwise carrying on cranky then I may hit the RTM button or bring it up in the Lounge but I wont fuel the fire by arguing without purpose.

I believe the rep system to be a wonderful addition to the site and I'm hedonist enough for my self-image to revel in it if I get a rep buff from someone here I really respect - OMG, its the internet equivalent of being flirted with by a pretty girl :lol:.

To re-iterate my practical statement from before, I think that there's nothing particularly wrong with the system as is other than the escalation of rep-power (because I think that inhibits the most valued members from using the system).

 

[Ella]

Isn't your last paragraph a bit contradictory? You're talking about forum staff being able to put someone into the red with one hit, but you yourself just said that you could do the same thing to a new member.

Ella, you seem a bit bent on this rep issue. We (the Steering Board) are currently working on solutions. Rather than continue to argue, let it rest, cast your vote if you haven't and wait it out to see what happens. Going back and forth isn't helping the cause or giving a solution.

I would be happy to - I planned on not responding after your earlier post. But when someone quotes me and asks a question, should I ignore it?

Yes, I said that I myself could to that to a new member. I don't think either one of those situations is okay.

I promise not to post again if no one asks me another question.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I would be happy to - I planned on not responding after your earlier post. But when someone quotes me and asks a question, should I ignore it?

Yes, I said that I myself could to that to a new member. I don't think either one of those situations is okay.

I promise not to post again if no one asks me another question.

Ella if you are a supporting member and the reputation system is bothering you alot you can always opt out by disabling your reputation. So there is a way to effectively remove yourself from the reputation system if you so choose. Besides being a supporting member on the best board on the internet is great!

 

[terryl965]

Ella if you are a supporting member and the reputation system is bothering you alot you can always opt out by disabling your reputation. So there is a way to effectively remove yourself from the reputation system if you so choose. Besides being a supporting member on the best board on the internet is great!

Very well said Brian this is the best board on the net.

 

[Ella]

Broke College student.

(is there some other kind?)

 

[MJS]

I would be happy to - I planned on not responding after your earlier post. But when someone quotes me and asks a question, should I ignore it?

Yes, I said that I myself could to that to a new member. I don't think either one of those situations is okay.

I promise not to post again if no one asks me another question.

Well, replying to a post is up to you. Here is the difference: If you feel that the person is baiting you and you don't feel like replying, then yes, don't reply. If you feel that you're going to offer something constructive to the thread then go ahead and reply. The point of my post, and it was directed to not just you, but everyone, was arguing is not helping to come up with a solution to the rep issue.

 

[terryl965]

Broke College student.

(is there some other kind?)

Man it is the year 2007 and still college students are broke it was that way when I was in college in the seventies.

 

[Drac]

I have to say that I haven't often seen signs of negative repping

Nor have I, and I've been here awhile

All I can report having observed is a really obnoxious member a while ago who thoroughly deserved getting lambasted with negative rep, or a recent occaision of a couple of relative newcomers to the board tearing into each other before noticing that that's not how we do things around here.

Same here...I've been negative repped a few times as a Newbie, and I deserved them and I wasn't repped out of exsistence..

Maybe I have rose-tinted glasses on but I perceive the rep system, as I've stated before, as both a way of affirming someones point of view without a needless "Me too!" post and also as a positive reinforcement tool. So if someone makes a good point on some topic, I'll quite happily put together a short comment in a rep-buff to let them know how well received their words were.

Those with the abundance of gold reps and STARS earned them by INTELLEGENT, THOUGHT PROVOKING posts..

I've never used negative rep and I plan on never having to. If someone makes a statement I disagree with then I may try to reason the point through with them but, if it's clear that an accomodation cannot be reached then I'll just leave well alone - if the poster is becoming aggressive, abusive or otherwise carrying on cranky then I may hit the RTM button or bring it up in the Lounge but I wont fuel the fire by arguing without purpose..
I believe the rep system to be a wonderful addition to the site and I'm hedonist enough for my self-image to revel in it if I get a rep buff from someone here I really respect - OMG, its the internet equivalent of being flirted with by a pretty girl :lol:.

To re-iterate my practical statement from before, I think that there's nothing particularly wrong with the system as is other than the escalation of rep-power (because I think that inhibits the most valued members from using the system).

A MOST intellegent post...Bravo!!!!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Man it is the year 2007 and still college students are broke it was that way when I was in college in the seventies.

You'd think, after all this time someone woulda fixed em all. They were broke when I went through there too. Damn country, getting so run down even the high schoolers are broke now. What are we gonna do when our preschoolers start to break down? We're doomed! Doomed I tell you!

If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the bar yelling about the slow speed on the pretzel restock.



Oh, and try the fish.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Welcome to life. 65 pound no skill snot nose kid can lay out a 250lb solid rock ab pro fighter. All they need is Mr. Winchesters most excellent negotiating tool. This rep thing wasn't here when I originally started. I probably woulder been in the red from day one. Who the fudge cares? I sure don't. Fix it, change it, remove it, hell, paint it purple and call it Lucy. I dun car.

But to whine "I might piss off a mod and they'll retaliate", pshaw. Piss em off, piss on em, buy em dinner and a movie, who cares? If I worried about kissing every butt and making sure that everyone luved me, I wouldn't have time to do jack. or jill. Jills cuter by the way, whoo hoo!

Read the rules, speak your mind with in them, take your lumps like any other real adult when you go to far (which will happen), and move on. I have read a bunch of things here from folks that I though was nutz. "Needed Killin" is a fitting term sometimes, and legally admissable I might add. I'm sure they've been spanked a few times, told off a mod or three, and oh lookee, they got green and dark green and yellow and little gold stars too. No purple clovers, but that might require the bonerspack or sumthin. Anyway, go cast a vote if you want. Mines not listed "I dunt car". Ding me, Dang me, might as well take a rope and hang me!

Whoooooo!




VI

Not what I meant.

When I say someone may not want to negatively rep a mod or admin, for fear of wrath, I don't mean that they (the admin or mod) would actually do anything.

Say I disagree with a post you have written, negative rep you, and reply to your post. Then you negatively rep me back. I've made your rep points go down by 90 and you've put me in the red.

Whether or not you actually DO it isn't my point. being able to single-handedly put someone in the red isn't a good thing. It would make me think twice about disagreeing with a moderator or admin.

For that matter, an average user such as myself could put a newbie in the red if they made one off color remark.

 

[Drac]

Ding me, Dang me, might as well take a rope and hang me!

High up from the highest tree. MT would you weep for me..Doot ,doot , doot ,do, do, doota, do...