Vote: Reorganized Reputation System.

What should I do with the rep system?

  • 1- Leave it as it is.

  • 2- Reset it to zero, and restart it under new rules.

  • 3- Drop it entirely.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Bob Hubbard

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Over the last few years, we've heard from some members that they felt there were various problems with the rep system. In order to resolve some of the complaints, we're taking a poll.

The options are:

1- Leave it as it is.

2- Reset it to zero, and restart it under new rules.

3- Drop it entirely.


The rules it would be restarted under if that is the community choice are:
Default Rep Score: 10 points

Register Date Factor: 365
For every X number of days, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.

Post Count Factor: 5,000
For every X number of posts, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.

Reputation Point Factor: 5,000
For every X points of reputation, users gain 1 point of reputation-altering power.

Minimum Post Count: 5
How many posts must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?

Minimum Reputation Count: 5
How much reputation must a user have before his reputation hits count on others?

Daily Reputation Clicks Limit: 10
How many reputation clicks can a user give over each 24 hour period? Administrators are exempt from this limit.

Reputation User Spread: 20
How many different users must you give reputation to before you can hit the same person again? Administrators are exempt from this limit.

All Rep would be public (no anonymous repping)
All staff would operate under the same rules as members.


Award levels would be adjusted and modified so that it doesn't take forever between levels, but one person couldn't 'rep' you and send you up or down 4 levels in 1 shot.

Poll runs until the end of the month, majority decision will be honored and implemented the beginning of September.

Thank you.
 

Andrew Green

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One technical problem leaving it as it is, that in a year, those rows of stars are going to be long... really long... It's not that much over a year since the first star came up, now the highest is 12(?) in another year at that rate we could hit 100 stars.
 

thardey

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Definitely keep the rep system - before I got to know some individuals in the forum, the rep system was great for knowing who was respected here, and who's questions and answers I could trust.

It's sort of like a belt-ranking system on the web - people who have more rank than me are people who I can confidently ask questions of, and learn from. I have a responsibility to people who are lower ranked than me to help them.

If you just have rank based on the number of posts, you get a lot of the "me too" type posts than just clutter up the system. The number of posts people put up doesn't mean that they are respected here.

About how it should be reorganized? I haven't been here long enough to have any input on that question.
 

OUMoose

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Does the rep system really make THAT much of a difference? God forbid people actually read the thread and form their own opinion. :(
 

Ceicei

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What's going to happen to all the rep comments? Do we get to keep them? I don't care if the rep count is lost, but the comments are what makes the rep of worth. Change the rep value, but let us keep the comments.

- Ceicei
 

exile

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Bob, I'd like to suggest another possibility for the new rules: staff don't participate in the rep system, as was suggested to me by another member whose views I have a high regard for. My own view of rep is that its biggest advantage is rewarding people early in their posting history on MT to contribute and get into the conversation at the most thoughtful and insightful level they can. By the time you get to staff, there seems little point in further rep accumulation; by that point, we are who we are, and pretty much known quantities.

Just another wrinkle....
 

Andrew Green

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What's going to happen to all the rep comments? Do we get to keep them? I don't care if the rep count is lost, but the comments are what makes the rep of worth. Change the rep value, but let us keep the comments.

- Ceicei


They could be kept. I could wipe the values off and leave all the comments.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Bob, I'd like to suggest another possibility for the new rules: staff don't participate in the rep system, as was suggested to me by another member whose views I have a high regard for. My own view of rep is that its biggest advantage is rewarding people early in their posting history on MT to contribute and get into the conversation at the most thoughtful and insightful level they can. By the time you get to staff, there seems little point in further rep accumulation; by that point, we are who we are, and pretty much known quantities.

Just another wrinkle....

Not a bad choice. I would be just as happy not to participate in the rep system anymore and yet I see Exile point above in getting people involved and posting thoughtfully. On the negative side if somone receives negative reputation then it also shows at that point who and how they are posting.
 

14 Kempo

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OK, resetting to zero is really not all that fair. Some people have worked hard to acquire rep points. How about the idea of resetting the system, leaving each person with one-tenth of their current total, or some factor thereof. At least this will still show who is respected as far as posting is concerned.
 

MBuzzy

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I've also seen other boards that don't have stars, the comments that you get when you hold your mouse on the rep bars just change. It eliminates the constellations.

There could also be a purple star to equal 5 or red to equal 10 or something to that effect.

Like some others, I would like to keep the comments if nothing else.
 

grydth

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With the sincerest thanks to anyone and everyone who ever gave me a good rep point, in my opinion.... please do away with the system.

The Forum itself, by its nature, allows people to express what they feel about anything I post.... so, let's say Brian agrees with something I say, while Exile demurs.... each can come out and say that in a reply post of theirs, with resultant benefits to the general conversation.

I recommend that one judge people by the contents of an individual post.... somebody could have 10 stars, and yet be dead wrong on an individual topic.

The current system allows those few **** here to negative rep others, without entering into the general debate or even giving their name. Sorry, but if you haven't got the smarts or the stones for a discussion or a fight.... who wants or needs to hear from you anyway?:ak47:

I believe that Bob & staff could award honors, in the name of the forum, to those deserving.

Just my 72c....
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

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There are some other systems we can add that will do away with the "yup" replies. One we've had great luck with on KenpoTalk is the "Thanks" system. You just click a little "Thank you" button, and it shows your support in a non-annoying way. The "No Thanks" system works the same way.

I'm personally finding that I use the current rep system less and less. As my ability grows to godlike levels, what I mean as a simple encouragement or discouragement suddenly elevates someone or drops em 3-4 levels in 1 shot.
 

Ceicei

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There are some other systems we can add that will do away with the "yup" replies. One we've had great luck with on KenpoTalk is the "Thanks" system. You just click a little "Thank you" button, and it shows your support in a non-annoying way. The "No Thanks" system works the same way.

I'm personally finding that I use the current rep system less and less. As my ability grows to godlike levels, what I mean as a simple encouragement or discouragement suddenly elevates someone or drops em 3-4 levels in 1 shot.

What KenpoTalk works for them. I would rather keep MartialTalk's system different. I like the ability to leave comments. Threads do not need simple public posts of merely "I agree" or "I disagree", when a rep comment will do just fine for that purpose. Let the threads keep the meat for discussion. The rep comments are just the hidden frosting that the ones who made the posts can enjoy.

The buttons and stars aren't really that necessary. The values of these need to be modified. Maybe one point value for each rep made rather than having them multiply in power.

- Ceicei
 

grydth

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As my ability grows to godlike levels, what I mean as a simple encouragement or discouragement suddenly elevates someone or drops em 3-4 levels in 1 shot.

:) In the event that the current reputation system is not changed, kindly supply a rate sheet along with preferred bribery items....:angel:
 

JBrainard

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The current system allows those few **** here to negative rep others, without entering into the general debate or even giving their name. Sorry, but if you haven't got the smarts or the stones for a discussion or a fight.... who wants or needs to hear from you anyway?

Why don't we just get rid of negative rep'ing altogether. It seems like it is mis-used just as much as it is used appropriately. Kill it I say.
 

terryl965

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All this crap over a rep. please some of us have earned our reps though post whoring. Whu should I be put out for a few others.
 

exile

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I recommend that one judge people by the contents of an individual post.... somebody could have 10 stars, and yet be dead wrong on an individual topic.

I hear ya!

I'd be very happy with a scaled-down system that eliminated negative rep&#8212;folks, note that people who rapidly accumulate red dots almost alway wind up off the board pretty quickly; relentlessly offensive and obnoxious posters don't last long here, because they general violate the Terms of Service in short order to such an extent that they get banned; rewarded individual good posts with rep, but not rep which depended on the rep of the awarder, for just the reason Grydth pointed out; and left staff outside the rep system. Of these, the most important I think is the dissociation of rep power from rep size. As per Bob's post...

Bob Hubbard said:
I'm personally finding that I use the current rep system less and less. As my ability grows to godlike levels, what I mean as a simple encouragement or discouragement suddenly elevates someone or drops em 3-4 levels in 1 shot.

So imagine the situation when your rep power reflects 12 gold stars plus, i.e., 1222 points. That's one and a half gold pips per rep. Twelve members whose perspective and control of fact and argument is at least as good as mine, but who only have 100 rep points each, can rep X, and it amounts to the same thing as if I alone rep X. Or Y, who thinks X has never been right once in his/her life. Rep power that is tied to the rep awarder's own rep doesn't do the job that I think was originally envisaged for it: the fact is, there isn't necessarily any correlation between how much rep you have and how valuable the contribution is that you assign rep to. So that seems to me to be a fundamental problem that arises when the rep you yourself have and the size of the rep number you can award are linked in the way they currently are.

I think the other issues are important too, but the exponential growth of rep power with rep size is the single biggest factor leading to the problem Andy noted earlier. The system just can't continue as it has been....
 

Sukerkin

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As ever Exile strikes to the core of the problem.

It's not the rep system per se that is at fault but the multiplier effect - I think it's one reason why people who have proven their worth (and so have a lot of rep-power) don't actually give out rep very often i.e. they recognise that it's unbalancing.

Now, I have to put my cards on the table and say that I don't think that there's anything wrong with the system as it is but I do see that it can be open to abuse by those who choose to operate outside of the spirit of it.

Also, there is the selfish point that I like the fact that I have accumulated some rep since I've become active here - it's good to know that I can talk sense occaisionally - and I would hate to have that all wiped away by a 'system reset'.

However, the counterpoint has already been made that the Rep Stars don't actually make any impact on whether you agree or not with what someone says.

What they do do, for new members, is give them an idea of what the underlying philosophy of the board is. By this I mean that (if you twig what the 'stars' mean (and I didn't :eek:)) you can see who has received plaudits from their peers and by reading their posts gather an idea of what concepts and attitudes are 'consensus' around here.

So, what does it matter if someone has a gazillion stars? Other than display difficulties that is? It's merely a visual indication for those who don't 'know' us that, on the whole that member speaks sense, as the general caucaus of the board sees it.

My general opinion is that it 'ain't broke' so don't try and 'fix' it but there is the provsio to this that Exile mentioned - the multi-star-multiplier effect. Remove that and all would be well I feel.

Tho' as a small counter-balance, I have just used my moderate rep-muscle to undo what I perceived as malicious negative repping to another member. Perhaps the ability to remove unwarranted blemishes could be a priviledge of the Moderating staff?

EDIT: I haven't voted in the poll as I don't entirely agree with any of the options. If I had to place my mark then it would be for Option 1.
 

arnisador

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I could wipe the values off and leave all the comments.

Basically, a rapid PM system? Early on it seemed that most rep. I got amounted to stuff that should have been sent by PM--that rep. became the IM with PMs being the analogue of e-mail. It was handy, and when no one had much repping power, it didn't seem like a big deal.

Encouraging new (and other) users, having a quick message utility, and being able to leave a "Me too" comment without putting it in the actual thread, are all benefits of the system. Without points it would lose the "game" aspect. (See e.g. PORTALS By LEE GOMES/Success and Greed in Web Point Payouts Yahoo gives out points for asking and answering questions on Yahoo Answers, to get people to participate. But this is leading to some unexpected results -- like 889 instances of the question "Why is the sky blue?"; also cf. lindens in Second Life. People buy those with real dollars, much as rep. has been unofficially offered here by some users for people buying upgraded memberships.) I think that removing the points would be a good thing. For one thing, red-rep posters might be less discouraged! As others have also stated, high-rep. people move people in either direction a great distance with a single click, for no apparently sound reason. (The "Thanks/No Thanks" system sounds interesting but I am not familiar with it.) There are arcade games for accumulating points here, threads that expressly state their purpose as "keeping our post count up," clubs to join and banners to acquire, and other ways to play the who-has-more game.

I voted to do away with the system based on the proposed new rules Kaith gave, but keeping it without points--even if it had a clear thumbs-up/thumbs-down marker that only the recipient could see--makes a lot of sense to me.
 

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