Vote: Reorganized Reputation System.

[arnisador]

But you have two moderators rep you once for something clever you said, and look what you get?

I'm not sure that real-life experience should count so much--the board is for all--but my experience has been that "cute" comments are more likely to get me rep. than meaty posts.

I'm still enough of a karma whore that I'll spend an extra moment or two to soften a strongly-worded opinion to avoid the ding. There are some who have chosen to disable reps in order to speak more freely, and from what I've seen it would be an ugly thing indeed if the system was done away with altogether.

Hmmmm...to the extent that people are being civil in exchange for rep., that's good; but softening strongly-worded opinions can also lead to a dull board full of "Me too" posts. This is not a clear positive to my mind.

As has been said to you before, if you don't like the reputation system, turn your rep off and ignore it
[*]

*For a modest fee.

Kacey's comments about not devaluing one's input are on-target. The board needs people at a range of experience in order to thrive, and those with less experience offer a fresh view and are more likely to start conversations. They can also be encouraging and positive to others (though whether that activity should gather rep. goes to whether rep. should reflect martial arts ability or how much one is "liked" by other posters).

 

[Carol]

I'm not sure that real-life experience should count so much--the board is for all--but my experience has been that "cute" comments are more likely to get me rep. than meaty posts.

Meaty posts? Are you still talking about food, Arni?

 

[Drac]

Meaty posts? Are you still talking about food, Arni?

Isn't he always..LOL....

 

[arnisador]

it's just not worth getting your knickers in a knot over it.

People keep saying this (e.g., shesulsa's linked post). It's a form of ad hominem argument: You disagree with me because of your irrationally strong response to a trivial issue; you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Yet no one here has threatened to leave or actually left over this matter; no one is demanding that changes be made; no one is accusing the administrators of acting in bad faith. Indeed, Ella's original post asked people have 26 stars... are there any plans to reset it, fix it, SOMETHING? which is a sentiment many posters here have echoed. It would be reasonable to interpret this question at face value, as a recognition of the fact that the current system is clearly incapable of continuing as is and asking about changes, rather than either a sign of disloyalty or a hysterical response to a minor issue.

Still, it's a useful rhetorical tactic to accuse one's opponents in a debate of being driven by emotion.

3) This is the most inportant statement of them all and here come the negative reps to me and I welcome all of them. quit whinning and crying and bitching about a system that some of us have been involved with for a long time,
[...]
Terry Stoker
The one that can look pass a rep system and continue with my day.

Are you implying that I cannot look past it and continue with my day?

 

[arnisador]

Man it is the year 2007 and still college students are broke it was that way when I was in college in the seventies.

You'd think, after all this time someone woulda fixed em all. They were broke when I went through there too. Damn country, getting so run down even the high schoolers are broke now. What are we gonna do when our preschoolers start to break down? We're doomed! Doomed I tell you!

If anyone needs me, I'll be over in the bar yelling about the slow speed on the pretzel restock.



Oh, and try the fish.

High up from the highest tree. MT would you weep for me..Doot ,doot , doot ,do, do, doota, do...

Meaty posts? Are you still talking about food, Arni?

Isn't he always..LOL....

For a minute there I was afraid this thread might stay on topic! Thank heavens for high-rep mods and admins who can keep us off-course.

I'm the last person to post on this thread!

 

[arnisador]

Double post due to a pair of errors like this:

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[terryl965]

For a minute there I was afraid this thread might stay on topic! Thank heavens for high-rep mods and admins who can keep us off-course.

I'm the last person to post on this thread!

Not anymore, I'm the king of this mountain

 

[Bob Hubbard]

For a minute there I was afraid this thread might stay on topic! Thank heavens for high-rep mods and admins who can keep us off-course.

I'm the last person to post on this thread!

It's called a joke Arn. It's used to diffuse tension, and relax a situation.
Use of jokes and humor is covered in section b, paragraph h, subsection theta in the moderator manual, version 45.6.7-b. Your copy was sent to you for use at FMAT, check under the stick bags in the corner, unless Tim's Dogs ate it.


Now, back to topic since being a tenth of a degree off it makes Arni break out in hives (you sure you ain't a closet kenpoist dude?), lets go back to discussing the rep system here. Why its great, why it sucks, why it works, why its all borked, and why it is the thing most likely responsible to the fall of the Roman Empire.

Or, we can discuss what works, doesn't work, and what actual fixes could be done to improve it.

Or, we can just whine about how it's unfair, and the secret cabel of moderators who spend all day looking for people to screw and abuse.



In case it's not obvious, 5 years of people bitching about this (the same ones I might add usually) are getting tiring.

 

[grydth]

I would be happy to - I planned on not responding after your earlier post. But when someone quotes me and asks a question, should I ignore it?

Yes, I said that I myself could to that to a new member. I don't think either one of those situations is okay.

I promise not to post again if no one asks me another question.

Consider some advice from a professional troublemaker twice your age:

You're going to lose on this one..... or, then again, are you?

On the vote, it will be a major loss. Maybe it should be - this actually, on the whole, is a pretty decent and honest collection of folks.

But you stirred this whole issue up - and that's a win for you. Institutions need troublemakers, somebody who'll break a little glass and question sacred practices.

Mad as some people may get at you, you made them think and express why this part of the system is so important to them. A lot of folks now know just how important, how valued their praise for others is. Everyone wins when they look at themselves closely, and can then say," Yeah, this is what I do... and here's why... and I'm proud of it."

Don't ever leave a fight with a plaintive promise not to post anymore. You are better than that - and so are your opponents here. Leave when you're done shooting, not before. If that angers people, well sometimes they need to be riled. And if after you are done, you realize the other guys are right - then post that and thank them for educating you. That'll bring you what the Gold Stars stand for - respect.

 

[MJS]

For a minute there I was afraid this thread might stay on topic! Thank heavens for high-rep mods and admins who can keep us off-course.

I'm the last person to post on this thread!

Actually, this thread went off the road a loooong time ago, hense the reason for my post, which apparently went ignored. Once again, its really simple..click a choice. If someone feels the need to comment, then do so. But to moan on and on...what is that doing to solve the problem? Nothing!

 

[Sapper6]

I have to say that I haven't often seen signs of negative repping.

All I can report having observed is a really obnoxious member a while ago who thoroughly deserved getting lambasted with negative rep, or a recent occaision of a couple of relative newcomers to the board tearing into each other before noticing that that's not how we do things around here.

Maybe I have rose-tinted glasses on but I perceive the rep system, as I've stated before, as both a way of affirming someones point of view without a needless "Me too!" post and also as a positive reinforcement tool. So if someone makes a good point on some topic, I'll quite happily put together a short comment in a rep-buff to let them know how well received their words were.

I've never used negative rep and I plan on never having to. If someone makes a statement I disagree with then I may try to reason the point through with them but, if it's clear that an accomodation cannot be reached then I'll just leave well alone - if the poster is becoming aggressive, abusive or otherwise carrying on cranky then I may hit the RTM button or bring it up in the Lounge but I wont fuel the fire by arguing without purpose.

I believe the rep system to be a wonderful addition to the site and I'm hedonist enough for my self-image to revel in it if I get a rep buff from someone here I really respect - OMG, its the internet equivalent of being flirted with by a pretty girl :lol:.

To re-iterate my practical statement from before, I think that there's nothing particularly wrong with the system as is other than the escalation of rep-power (because I think that inhibits the most valued members from using the system).

who the hell are you and where did you find such intelligent rationale?

very nice.

 

[arnisador]

back to topic since being a tenth of a degree off it makes Arni break out in hives

Me? Nonsense; this is just another ad hominem attack. What would happen if I started characterizing you in such derisive tones here? In any event, I simply don't understand the rule. Last month I received an infraction for "Off Topic Post" (You have been issued a warning IC for off topic posting in the thread. If you have any questions please feel free to contact any member of the senior moderating staff.). Now you say that half a dozen off-topic posts are OK since the effect is humourous and helpful. Is your point that it's OK if it's funny?

Or, we can discuss what works, doesn't work, and what actual fixes could be done to improve it.

Or, we can just whine about how it's unfair, and the secret cabel of moderators who spend all day looking for people to screw and abuse.

I was trying to do the former, and haven't engaged in the latter.

In case it's not obvious, 5 years of people bitching about this (the same ones I might add usually) are getting tiring.

I think you're reading venom into many posts that the posters think are simply discussions of which features here they do and do not like. (I grant that some posts on both sides are over-the-top.) If you don't want to read discussions, maybe posting on Internet fora is not for you. But for an argument to occur, someone must take up an opposing side (ref.: Monty Python, The Argument Clinic).

 

[Drac]

Jeezas..Yeah I cracked a joke and went off topic..So to any SuperMods or Higher FEEL FREE to send me warning IC and Issue me an Infraction for said offense..I won't whine or cry....

 

[Carol]

Enough, everyone, please.


Y'all know the drill.

If there is an issue with a post, hit the RTM button.

If you have a concern about any of the moderators, including me, PM Bob Hubbard.


Chill out, and lets keep the fighting on the mats, mmmkay?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Me? Nonsense; this is just another ad hominem attack. What would happen if I started characterizing you in such derisive tones here? In any event, I simply don't understand the rule. Last month I received an infraction for "Off Topic Post" (You have been issued a warning IC for off topic posting in the thread. If you have any questions please feel free to contact any member of the senior moderating staff.). Now you say that half a dozen off-topic posts are OK since the effect is humourous and helpful. Is your point that it's OK if it's funny?

Well, posting judopoopypants stuff right after a mod warning to get back on topic in a discussion on a book about swords in a forum we're trying to encourage more serious discussion in (since some folks have been complaining about a perceived lack of such for a while) probably deserved an actual IC, but hey who am I to say? But that also is going far off the topic here isn't it?

So Jeff, since you have made repeated comments and complaints concerning the rep system here, and the formula is posted a few back, what would you change to fix it? Seriously. No, scrapping it is not what most folks here want. So, what should we do to fix it?

 

[shesulsa]

You dont think its a good possibility that moderators get more rep points, possibly from users hoping to make a good impression? Or, the flipside, they dont get negatively repped as much, because a member doesn't want to risk the "wrath" of a mod?

People who fear the "wrath" of a mod either have something to hide, are consciously aware they do not post near to the quality of other posters ... that or they're just plain shy.

People keep saying this (e.g., shesulsa's linked post). It's a form of ad hominem argument: You disagree with me because of your irrationally strong response to a trivial issue; you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If I say "why put so much into something that matters very little" and it's called an ad hominem by a founding member with less rep and a higher quantity of "meaty" posts ... that does little to devalue my statement. Are you, in fact, putting more value in the reputation system than there really is? Is that why you once told me you were going for my top spot (when I was there)? Haven't we done this already?

You can use a screwdriver to pound a nail into a wall but it's not very effective ... using a tool the way its intended and only using it when it's intended and to suit your purpose ... that makes the tool yours.

There are more important causes to champion, methinks ... like how are we going to get past the nasty politics of Kenpo, Judo, Arnis and HRD to spread these wonderful arts and keep them going? What is the legacy we are leaving our children if we're fighting over popularity? When was the last time you let an orange belt come into your school and tell you how to run it?

Please, people.

 

[MBuzzy]

Although this may be oversimplifying things....seems to me that it is easy to solve.

Put a limit on the amount of stars you can get. Put a limit on the amount of rep altering power you can have. Put a limit on the numerical amount of rep that you can get (but still get comments and such, they just wouldn't alter your rep #).

No scrapping, no resetting....just inserting a ceiling.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok.

Now that is something we've been considering. We're trying to decide what to do with the folks who are past whatever cutoff point we establish. Obviously, they lose power, but is that fair? etc.

Just food for thought.

 

[MJS]

Although this may be oversimplifying things....seems to me that it is easy to solve.

Put a limit on the amount of stars you can get. Put a limit on the amount of rep altering power you can have. Put a limit on the numerical amount of rep that you can get (but still get comments and such, they just wouldn't alter your rep #).

No scrapping, no resetting....just inserting a ceiling.

Probably one of the best suggestions I've seen so far!!

 

[MJS]

ok.

Now that is something we've been considering. We're trying to decide what to do with the folks who are past whatever cutoff point we establish. Obviously, they lose power, but is that fair? etc.

Just food for thought.

Take the person who is the highest at the time of the change, and set it for that. That person will be the first to reach that goal obviously, and it'll still give everyone else a chance to catch up.