USAT and the special promotion

[terryl965]

Here is a link to an articla about that special Dan promotion they just had, I am so lucky I did not do this how legit can it be when they took application the night before, It was akkk about the money also I was told nobody failed and they all skipped Dan as well. the joke is the KKW and the USAT are just in it for the money case and point.

 

[dortiz]

Not sure about that Terry. While it does say they took applicants late I was someone trying to make a standby flight...on the other hand my paperwork had been in and signed off back home on time. I would guess if folks who found out late, especially folks out of the traditional fold (those that especially may hold a rank but not Kukkiwon) they may figure go for the event and try to make application. Sounds like that was a USTKD decision. It also reads like the Kukkiwon did this so as to not give the locals the power to promote and to make sure it was controlled to their standard. I missed it so I dont know. If there is an article that states the Kukkiwon felt those last minute folks were all cash and could not pass thats different. I read that several skip Dans were not fully honored as the time period was too short. That sounds like they were being good about checking.
I hoped you had gone or someone who could tell us first hand. I would hope if that person deserved it they could still speak up even if they thought others did not.
Dave O.
p.s. I never thought it was a big money thing because they did not charge any extra fees at all. If anything they charged the true fees which were hundreds less than folks have been paying teachers here.

 

[dortiz]

More blurbs on other pages:
Many testers stayed up all night practicing their poomsae and showed great passion. George Bleil (5th Dan, Ohio) stated, "I have tested from 3rd Dan to 5th Dan before. I have trained for the past 35 years. This time I am testing for the 7th Dan from 5th Dan. I wish people didn't see this Special Testing any differently from normal Dan Testing. No matter what, if you don't have the skills necessary to pass, you will fail. There is no benefit just because you test for Dan skipping".

Kukkiwon held seminars from February 13th, for the Special Dan Testing. Education was free of charge, and the focus was to teach first class poomsae movements. Jong Bum Park, who was in charge of education, stated "Throw away old ways. Focus and concentrate. Special Dan Testing is the hardest testing. If you are going to do it half-heartedly, go back home. Brace yourself mentally for the testing".

I will admit I am defending it because I hope it works. Besides me I know a lot of folks that can pass many rank tests and deserve the Kukkiwon recognition that will not pay $400-$1000 and in many cases never see the real Cert. Just hopefull. Thats all.
Dave O.

 

[dortiz]

Oof!!

Then there is this.....

He hasn't trained Taekwondo during 20 years he has lived in Los Angeles. He simply has a 1st Dan from when he was in the Korean army. So I asked him how he is able to test for 7 Dan and he replied, 'it was possible when I paid more money.' I'm curious to know if Kukkiwon is aware of situations such as this and is still accepting the registration."


Hopes now dashed............

Dave O.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think in the end it was a grab for immediate cash.

 

[terryl965]

I personallt know a man that has not seriously done any training for 17 years and he went from a third toa seventh in Las Vegas, he himself said he was below average as far as skill but to his credit he has been a loyal supportor for tournaments in California and he knew he was never ever going to get promoted without htis and the shape he was in. The cost was about 15,000 he said for everything test room, food and transportation and he is know a 7th. I will wait and do my test one at a time and train to be able to look good when doing it. My two cents stands this is a way to make money for the KKW and control the testing for the USAT.

 

[dortiz]

Wow,
I guess I was wrong. In my case I thought the fees were cheap. I even had to pay for my testing here and that was $600. Way more than the straight Kukkiwon. Even combined it was not over $1000.
$15,000!! I could do a lot more with that kind of money and feel way better about myself than that guy ended up.
Its time for me to focus on my own training and not play that game.

p.s. Of course now I want to go to one and spar these folks ; )

Dave O.

 

[Twin Fist]

15 THOUSAND DOLLERS!!!!!!!

screw that

thats a CAR

 

[taekwondodo]

Hi there,
I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to respond to this thread.

I was at US Open for the Ultra forms and sparring. I had couple of days of free time and saw the room where all of the testers practicing their forms and the door was open, I decided to join the gang.

This was not my first time attending Kukkiwon Poomsae seminar, this is my second time. I was really impressed with Master Park running the seminar and the translator. The translator was Korean-American and majority of the translation was correct.

I was also impressed the dedication of the testers, who showed up from 9 am and stayed until 10 pm or so practicing. Even though I was not testing, I was there to practiced all of the Black belt forms with them and was giving some of the pointers to others. I've been practicing these 4, 5, 6, and 7 dan forms for the last 9 months was familiar with the forms.

I caught a little bit of the testing and from what I saw, there were 2 pannels. The poomsae judges, and the sparring judges.

Master Park stated that if the testers did not get the basics down, then they will fail the test.

So, if any testers who has not been involved in TKD for a while and want a quick promotion, I am sure they will fail because the changes to the new Poomsae standard was different.

The stances, the changes in certain techniques in certain form, and many other minor changes that was not known to the US TKD practitianers.

If the testers was able to adapt the new ways in 2 days, then they will pass the test.

I could have test and skip dan test and have a good reason/qualified to test. I've been 3rd Dan for the last 15 years, and had 2 chances to test for my 4th dan along the way. Unfortunately, things came up and was not able to.

Then there is that moving from state to state, and was not belong to a specific school to continue my tkd . However, I teached TKD along the way, so its not like I was totally out.

Now that I am belong to a really good school in Dallas and the instructor is really good, so I decide to have him test me this fall. I passed the opportunity to skip dan test to 5th at US Open so I can test with my instructor for 4th dan.

I do not think the Special Dan test was a joke, but it was a favor to black belt who has the same situation like me to be up to date with their rank.

But then, whats in a rank anyway. If you look at my skills, you cannot say I am a 3rd dan. My skills matched the what would have been a 5th dan not brag or anything.

 

[Thesemindz]

If the testers was able to adapt the new ways in 2 days, then they will pass the test.

This to me is a perfect example of a lot that is wrong with modern commercial martial arts.

If the testers (are) able to adapt the new ways in 2 days, then they will pass the test.

2 days? Really? For black belt ranking? 2 days. Is the material that simple, the practitioners that amazing, or the rank that fraudulent?

I don't mean this as a slam against TKD. This crap happens in Kenpo too, and I'm sure it does in every other martial art. How many dan ranks do you think you could buy on Ebay for 15 thousand dollars? More than 6 I'd bet.

2 days. To learn the material for black belt ranking.

Not something I'd brag about either.


-Rob

 

[terryl965]

Hi there,
I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to respond to this thread.

I was at US Open for the Ultra forms and sparring. I had couple of days of free time and saw the room where all of the testers practicing their forms and the door was open, I decided to join the gang.

This was not my first time attending Kukkiwon Poomsae seminar, this is my second time. I was really impressed with Master Park running the seminar and the translator. The translator was Korean-American and majority of the translation was correct.

I was also impressed the dedication of the testers, who showed up from 9 am and stayed until 10 pm or so practicing. Even though I was not testing, I was there to practiced all of the Black belt forms with them and was giving some of the pointers to others. I've been practicing these 4, 5, 6, and 7 dan forms for the last 9 months was familiar with the forms.

I caught a little bit of the testing and from what I saw, there were 2 pannels. The poomsae judges, and the sparring judges.

Master Park stated that if the testers did not get the basics down, then they will fail the test.

So, if any testers who has not been involved in TKD for a while and want a quick promotion, I am sure they will fail because the changes to the new Poomsae standard was different.

The stances, the changes in certain techniques in certain form, and many other minor changes that was not known to the US TKD practitianers.

If the testers was able to adapt the new ways in 2 days, then they will pass the test.

I could have test and skip dan test and have a good reason/qualified to test. I've been 3rd Dan for the last 15 years, and had 2 chances to test for my 4th dan along the way. Unfortunately, things came up and was not able to.

Then there is that moving from state to state, and was not belong to a specific school to continue my tkd . However, I teached TKD along the way, so its not like I was totally out.

Now that I am belong to a really good school in Dallas and the instructor is really good, so I decide to have him test me this fall. I passed the opportunity to skip dan test to 5th at US Open so I can test with my instructor for 4th dan.

I do not think the Special Dan test was a joke, but it was a favor to black belt who has the same situation like me to be up to date with their rank.

But then, whats in a rank anyway. If you look at my skills, you cannot say I am a 3rd dan. My skills matched the what would have been a 5th dan not brag or anything.

Can I ask what school you belong too. I also live in the Metroplex and have my school in Arlington. The problem I see if they can learn it in two days they will pass, so a BB is memorizing a poomsae and not learning alll the application, no more needs to be said. Sorry I am realy trying not to offend anybody but that is wrong in my book and if you was just trying to get a 1st to 3rd no test what so ever just pay and here you go.

 

[dortiz]

Being the usual devils advocate I have to wonder. Who would pick up the nuances of the changes. Someone that has the forms down pat and has done them for years or folks who went to learn them just for test. Posers.


Dave O.

 

[NPTKD]

I was there and tested. I competed in Ultra Forms and sparring. I already had my 5th thru AAU and USAT. I was testing to convert to Kukkiwon. The stances and techniques that were changed were very simple. If you stay current with the Kukkiwon and own the 2006 textbook, then you really didnt have any problems. The people who had problems were the ones that never made an attempt stay currnet. Some of the Old timers feel as if they do not need to keep up dated on thier training. I heard alot about this texting on other sites and about 90% of it was wrong. The text was a good thing for people like me who wanted to convert,but what most people don't understand is that this test was or will be done for all the WTF member nations. This is an attempt from Kukkiwon to keep the member nations from making thier own Dan certificates!

Thanks

 

[chrispillertkd]

... but what most people don't understand is that this test was or will be done for all the WTF member nations. This is an attempt from Kukkiwon to keep the member nations from making thier own Dan certificates!

Thanks

I thought it was "illegal" for WTF member nations to issue anything but Kukkiwons if the students wanted to compete. If you don't and your school issues individual certificates, or Kwan certificates, or what have you what's the big deal? And why wouldn't the WTF just tell USAT (for example) no non-Kukkiwon's period? They are, after all, the sport sanctioning body for the WTF in America so they should be playing by WTF rules.

Anyway, sorry about thread drift but this is a question I simply don't understand. Any insight would be great.

Pax,

Chris

 

[IcemanSK]

I thought it was "illegal" for WTF member nations to issue anything but Kukkiwons if the students wanted to compete. If you don't and your school issues individual certificates, or Kwan certificates, or what have you what's the big deal? And why wouldn't the WTF just tell USAT (for example) no non-Kukkiwon's period? They are, after all, the sport sanctioning body for the WTF in America so they should be playing by WTF rules.

Anyway, sorry about thread drift but this is a question I simply don't understand. Any insight would be great.

Pax,

Chris

I see your confusion, Chris. One needs a KKW cert to compete in the Olympics, true. But that doesn't mean that one cannot also get another (school or Kwan) certificate also. It's not "illegal" to get a school or Kwan cert. in the eyes of the KKW. They just see their's as the only one someone needs.

 

[StuartA]

Hmmm.. all looks a bit hokey to me.. but what do I know. One question however:

Are students allowed to wear bracelets when training?

Stuart

 

[StuartA]

Actually, 1 more question.

Whats the difference between a KKW "Special" Dan testing and a standard/normal Dan testing?

Stuart

 

[KELLYG]

I don't think that the testers were advised of pass/fail at the end of there test and that the results were to be sent out at a later date???

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

what most people don't understand is that this test was or will be done for all the WTF member nations. This is an attempt from Kukkiwon to keep the member nations from making thier own Dan certificates!

Frankly, USAT is a sports organization and the Kukkiwon should not allow them to issue any dan cert that says 'Kukkiwon' on it.

In the long run, it would be better for the KKW: then having the KKW belt would mean that they'd actually studied a martial art, not just a point kicking game.

I don't know what other member nations' TKD orgs are like, but if they're all like USAT, then this would actually elevate the KKW's stature.

If they want to retain the ability to write dan certs, then they should require member nation's KKW affiate orgs to be more than just a sports body.

The problem is that USAT is the US affiliate of the WTF, which is also just a sports body.

Of course, its all about the money that the KKW would lose. If USAT is doing the work with their members and the members are really just in it for the tourney, then USAT should actually sever its ties to the KKW. Of course they'd get screw in international competition, where WTF most likely has the final say.

By the way, my comments are not a shot at USAT. As I said, USAT is a sports organization, so I don't have any problem with them being all about the sport competition. I just don't feel that sports requires belt ranks. Incidentally, I am a USAT member and KKW certified.

Daniel

 

[dortiz]

"Whats the difference between a KKW "Special" Dan testing and a standard/normal Dan testing?"

Thats really the kicker here. This is all about Kukkiwon rank and nothing more. ITF is more split up so issues about communicating back to Korea do not seem to be as real.
Here its been interesting. many folks came over and while claiming Kukkiwon rank never sent back the paperwork. In many cases they charged a lot but never did anything. In some cases they just never discussed or issued anything else but school certs. I personally went to a school talked to 9th degree with a Kukkiwon plaque on the wall. After going through the entire program was told he did not do the actual Kukkiwon but was kukkiwon certified. Standing right under the plaque he asked why his rank was not good enough. Its not about that. Some of us want the rank issues from Kukkiwon as expected.
Special Dan testing meant just that. A chance to turn in the paperwork directly and have it reviewed for a Kukkiwon Dan ranking.
Remember you may be a 3rd Dan with only the 1st turned in. 10 years go by and you find out but hey, you show as a 1st Dan. Here you can present your local 2nd Dan and when you earned it and qualify for the Kukkiwon skip Dan.
Thats why this discussion does not take in to account what is 80% of the actual circumstance.
Dave O.