So What is it worth.

[d1jinx]

So, USAT is Re-Releasing its Dan program. So what will it really be worth? I mean, if I go to the USTC they will laugh and not honor it, if I submitted to AAU, they will probably not care, KKW definately wont recognize it....

So the question is, when the USAT fails (which seams inevitable) what will a USAT DAN be worth?

I'm not for, or against it. Just wondering how others will feel about it.

Most reputable orgs hold some value, what value does USAT hold when it comes to certifying?

 

[bluekey88]

I could be mistaken, but isn't the USAT special dan promotion being done via the KKW? If so, it would make the USAT dna equivalent to the KKW dan. If not, then it is only good in so much as the KKW recognizes it.

 

[d1jinx]

I could be mistaken, but isn't the USAT special dan promotion being done via the KKW? If so, it would make the USAT dna equivalent to the KKW dan. If not, then it is only good in so much as the KKW recognizes it.

NOPE. this year it is for a USAT DAN. Not KKW or KKW affiliated. It will be a USAT DAN CERTIFICATE. From what i understand, they started this a while back, then ended it because KKW wasn't happy about it so they had the "KKW Special Dan Testing"... now USAT and KKW arent happy with eachother since USTC is KKW here, so USAT rolled out their own DAN program... AGAIN.

 

[IcemanSK]

My guess is that the KKW will say, "that's nice, we'll give you some credit toward a KKW rank. But not full credit."

In answer to your question, not as much it may have a year ago.

 

[terryl965]

USAT dans will be worth justlike everybody elses, you see most are only worth the paper it is on and remember the KKW is really only for those school that recognized the KKW as it leader. If you are ITF and that could be anyone of the three or AAU or USTC than thsat org will recognizedyour piece of paper. Take a KKW certs to a ITF school and see what they tell you, but I am sure USAT will make it seem so much more than what it is.

 

[dortiz]

I have to assume that any Master authorized to give a USAT cert would probably also hold a Kukkiwon rank. Therefore I bet any person with a USAT Dan rank will be able to ask a teacher to submit the paperwork for a Kukkiwon Dan.
I cant imagine its any different than what most schools do in the states. A school or organization cert follwed by a Kukkiwon. Yes, its not supposed to be that way but I see plenty of it.
Its truly more of an upper level political move.

 

[Archtkd]

So, USAT is Re-Releasing its Dan program. So what will it really be worth? I mean, if I go to the USTC they will laugh and not honor it, if I submitted to AAU, they will probably not care, KKW definately wont recognize it....

So the question is, when the USAT fails (which seams inevitable) what will a USAT DAN be worth?

I'm not for, or against it. Just wondering how others will feel about it.

Most reputable orgs hold some value, what value does USAT hold when it comes to certifying?

The larger question here is will the World Taekwondo Federation -- not the Kukkiwon -- recognize the USAT dan certificate. It it does, there will be no incentive for USAT athletes to seek Kukkiwon certification.? The WTF organizes and regulates the sport element of Taekwondo, which comes under the purview of USAT, as far as Olympics are concerned.

 

[Disco]

Perhaps this has a tie in with the thread on the WTF taking over and replacing the Kukkiwon. As Archtkd pointed out, "The larger question here is will the World Taekwondo Federation -- not the Kukkiwon -- recognize the USAT dan certificate. It it does, there will be no incentive for USAT athletes to seek Kukkiwon certification.? The WTF organizes and regulates the sport element of Taekwondo, which comes under the purview of USAT, as far as Olympics are concerned."

Food for thought...................

 

[d1jinx]

you know since it was mentioned, it might as well be talked about.

Sure the KKW rules say No Org/School can hand out its own Dan Certs, but that mostly applies to Korea, and THEY KNOW NOT IN THE US. They can not and do not have any control over Dans being issued in the US outside of the KKW. Nor do they wish to challenge it. They just want a piece of the American pie (or $$$) so they do not mention anything about it. However, They wont recognize it if you do try to submit one to them that aint a KKW. They can't cut off the U.S. for issuing non-KKW DANS because the U.S. dont need KKW and they know it. There are many Pioneers here who have fought against americans being required KKW dans and in the end they would loose out MILLIONS of $$$$ if they did try to enforce the rule here in the U.S.


So Article 19: If any of the following violations are committed, the violator shall be sanctioned by expulsion, deprivation of Dan certificates and/or suspension of memberships.

1. (1) Alteration or disqualification of Dan certificates
2. (2) Dan promotion testing executed by unauthorized persons
3. (3) Issuing Dan certificates by the name of own instructors or Member National Association

SHOULD SAY..... EXCEPT IN UNITED STATES!!!!! where its common practice to do so and has been prior to KKW's establishment in 1972.

 

[dortiz]

"The larger question here is will the World Taekwondo Federation '

Only larger for those that care about Olympic sport TKD ; )

I agree though. Here is the real relevance. As mentioned this will probably all tie back to the WTFs certification and what going on with the Kukkiwon currently.

 

[RSweet]

1997 - USOC told USTU to get its own dan certification program.
2003 - one was put to paper but never implemented as Sang Lee could not find a certificate he liked.
2006 - USAT Bod voted to have their own dan program but fought over the belt and the certificate.
2008 finally got it moving and included allowing dan testings - MAC was to do the testings. David Askinas gave the whole program to the MAC. Certificates are signed by Hong Kong Kim and JP Chai. Now HHK and JPC aren't getting along and HHK is out of MAC supposedly.
2009 - 10days before special testing KKW says kill your dan program or we pull special test.
2009 - David goes to Korea to tell Korean government that KKW is being mean when they gave the license to Sang Lee.
2009 - Dan program was to roll out again as KKW violated the agreement.
2010 - program was to roll out again. Last I saw was David's comments to MAC about the USAT/MAC Dan program - which is NOT what BOD intended ever.

Program has been perverted over and over to the point it is a joke. It could have been good but David never promoted it because he was afraid of KKW and then he gave it to MAC which means a lot of member will never want it. The MAC is not bad, it is just not USAT. People want a certificate that has the Olympic rings (which it does) and is signed by someone who represents the whole org, not just one segment.

 

[granfire]

This woould make such a cool soap opera for Spike TV...

 

[Twin Fist]

you people and your org drama...

your cert is worth the blood and sweat and tears you put into it and NOTHING ELSE

yours mine, WHO EVER

paper is paper

make your belt mean something by not sucking

who cares where it comes from.........

 

[granfire]

you people and your org drama...

your cert is worth the blood and sweat and tears you put into it and NOTHING ELSE

yours mine, WHO EVER

paper is paper

make your belt mean something by not sucking

who cares where it comes from.........

Well, works if you don't need it as ticket to enter the 'No Suck Zone'

 

[Archtkd]

"The larger question here is will the World Taekwondo Federation '

Only larger for those that care about Olympic sport TKD ; )

I agree though. Here is the real relevance. As mentioned this will probably all tie back to the WTFs certification and what going on with the Kukkiwon currently.

I think anyone who is not interested in WTF regulated/recognized world class competition for kyorugi and poomsae really need not worry about what the USAT does or does not do. Despite what the USAT's Martial Arts Commission says and tries to do, USAT's purpose for existence -- as one notable MT member strongly reminded us in another thread last year -- is to organize and manage WTF sport Taekwondo at the national/elite level.

I also think it's irrelevant whether the Kukkiwon recognizes or rejects USAT dan certificates. What counts is that US Oympic Committee and the WTF recognize USAT as the nation's governing body for sport Taekwondo.

 

[d1jinx]

OK, so lets change the question a bit....

What are you gonna think when Billy the Black Belt walks into your school flashing his USAT Dan Cert... What will honestly come to your mind?

Sure, we will all say, lets see what he can do, but honestly, from the start we make an opinion when someone flashes a cert from So and So or this or that (no names to avoid sidetracking the question).

So what is the first thing thats gonna come to your mind when they show it to you and its the only cert they have? (AND yOU dont KNOW OF THEM OR THIER INSTRUCTOR).

 

[cmassman]

In our school we have traditionally welcomed the person in and allowed them to keep their rank. Now with that said, when it comes to the next belt promotion they need to know all of our requirements for the next belt. For example we have had a green belt join our school and they took a good 12 months before they could test for their next belt. We usually test every 3 – 4 months.

 

[bignick]

What is any certification worth? Who certifies you from the Kukkiwon, or USAT, or AAU.

I personally have Kukkiwon certification up to this point, but I've been questioning it, except for higher dan grading pretty much all evaluation is done by people from your organization and submitted the governing body of your choice. In most cases, any certification is no better than a club certification from your instructor.

Nobody from the Kukkiwon has ever seen me test, and by the same token I have some certificates from jujutsu signed by some pretty famous people that didn't actually see me test either.

The validation from a certification comes from the instructor or board that passed you on your exam, not where the piece of paper comes from. If you value their opinion, knowledge, judgement and experience than you're skills are validated. The return address on the envelope your certificate came in doesn't mean a whole lot anymore.