Traditional or Flips and Flash ??

[BruceCalkins]

I have been seeing a lot of these XMA forms coming up in Demos and tournaments.. What is your take of the Flips and Flash of XMA... Is it real? I know I would never release my weapon like I see them do. I have even seen people known for their traditional style now doing releases...
What is the take on this new Flip and Flash Style.
Real or Just for Show?

 

[Bester]

If you believe that what you see in 95% of demos and tournaments is legit combat arts then you've taken a few too many nerve pinches from a guy names Spock.

Flash is what gets you attention, attention gets you noticed, and being noticed leads to trophies.

I was at an event once where someone did their form flawlessly. Problem was, he did it silently so didn't show "energy" and came in 3rd. Who won? Someone who was sloppier than hell, but made all the right "KIAS" and "Ugh!" sounds.

Then again, tourny arts are about as close to combat arts as McDonalds is to Iron Chef.

 

[Andrew Green]

It's real performance. They generally don't claim anything else...

 

[Spook]

Its gymnastics and has no true application but to make judges go "oooooo" and "ahhhhhhh".

 

[Jmh7331]

I like watching it, but I liked watching Spiderman too - I know neither one is real.

 

[arnisador]

It's martial sport, not martial arts. That's fine, but it's not what I'm looking for, personally.

 

[Adept]

Most of the stuff you see in martial arts tournaments has no reliable application in terms of self defense. Katas and point sparring are no more or less 'realistic' than XMA demonstrations, IMHO.

 

[still learning]

Hello, In today's tournments it is all about showmanship. People who put on tournments do it to raise money. (money making project). Flasher the show, the more people come for the entertainment. Does this make sense now?

Traditions are still follow somewhat and can be mix in too?

Real fighting and tournements fighting/kata's are two different things. One has no rules and the other has rules.

Try fight in class style in a real street fight? Then you will learn real quick the difference........If you survive.........Aloha

 

[still learning]

Hello, In today's tournments it is all about showmanship. People who put on tournments do it to raise money. (money making project). Flasher the show, the more people come for the entertainment. Does this make sense now?

Traditions are still follow somewhat and can be mix in too?

Real fighting and tournements fighting/kata's are two different things. One has no rules and the other has rules.

Try fight in class style in a real street fight? Then you will learn real quick the difference........If you survive.........Aloha

 

[MJS]

Hello, In today's tournments it is all about showmanship. People who put on tournments do it to raise money. (money making project). Flasher the show, the more people come for the entertainment. Does this make sense now?

Traditions are still follow somewhat and can be mix in too?

Real fighting and tournements fighting/kata's are two different things. One has no rules and the other has rules.

Try fight in class style in a real street fight? Then you will learn real quick the difference........If you survive.........Aloha

Exactly! Nobody is going to want to sit there and be bored, but its sad to see that this is what has become of tournaments. Fortunately, there are still divisions that offer a traditional Martial Artist the chance to showcase their skill, without having to worry about doing a cartwheel.

Mike

 

[FearlessFreep]

I competed in a forms competition and lost to a less-experienced artist who did not have nearly my speed or power in moves, but she did everything very precise with proper placement of feet and hands and good balance. Some judges can look past the 'flash'. Not that I was trying to be flashy or anything, I was doing a slightly more complicated form and had more power and snap to my moves, but I was also tense in competing and as a result was probably not as precise or as balanced as I should've been.

 

[jkdhit]

i dont really like the flips and flash or thinks it benefits anyone - in my opinion its just for show. i've seen a few people at live tournaments and on espn that use xma in demos but when you see them taking part in sparring, they dont do that well.. some actually do the worst

 

[evenflow1121]

Both have value, a lot of people get into the martial arts because they are attracted to the unorthodox. In their mind, they are not impressed by a simple punch or a kick, or at least they have no clue how important it is to learn this properly. They want to be able to flip and perform incredible feats in order to impress their peers, even if it means never taking a punch to the face and learning absolutely nothing in terms of self defense. Others seek martial arts out for self defense and for enlightment. Although I do agree with a lot of people here that most individuals would rather see the flashy stuff and not the traditional, for me anyway, the flashy stuff is absolutely worthless. Walk into a school whose foundation has no weapons, and the instructor incorporates weapons without having any formal training himself and you will know what I am talking about.

I remember walking into one of these and having the instructor refer to nunchaku as "numchucks" and Sai's as Raphael Swords (I am still trying to figure this out, but I am thinking its a ninja turtle thing), man I couldnt believe what I had just heard. Sure the kids were flipping and kicking high and all that, but they had absolutely no clue how to hold the things, yet I am pretty certain that a lot of them if not all, in their minds believe they know how to use those weapons. What really baffles me is if we should even consider the flashy stuff or sports karate even, martial arts, or have they been so watered down that they should be considered in a separate category?

 

[ppko]

Most of the stuff you see in martial arts tournaments has no reliable application in terms of self defense. Katas and point sparring are no more or less 'realistic' than XMA demonstrations, IMHO.

any sport is not realistic but if you do katas the way they are meant to be done they are very realistic. Learn what froms are for before making such a statement.

 

[jkdhit]

yeah katas are meant as a way to simulate combat and achieve balance

 

[Jmh7331]

What really baffles me is if we should even consider the flashy stuff or sports karate even, martial arts, or have they been so watered down that they should be considered in a separate category?

The last XMA show I saw on ESPN didn't even mention which "art" the performers (that's what they are in my opinion) were schooled in. If it were serious Martial Arts don't you think that info would be important?

 

[Adept]

any sport is not realistic but if you do katas the way they are meant to be done they are very realistic.

No, they aren't. They are a good library of techniques, they are a good cardio workout, and they are a good way to reinforce the basics. But in no measure are they a good way to train realistic self defense.

Take for example, the first pattern I learned in TKD, the four directional punch. First move is a step out to a forward stance with the right foot and a mid section punch with the right hand. Then a turn to the left into a low section block. Then a midsection punch, low block, punch, block, and so on.

It's a good way to reinforce the techniques of a mid section punch and a low block and changing stances. But the actual string of movements together into a linear pattern is, for self defense, counter productive. Doing a midection punch then turning into a low section block is going to get you in serious trouble unless your opponent is standing right in front of you with his guard down, and the second opponent is standing to your left about to do a low section attack to the left hand side.

Since you wont be moving like that in self defense, why train that way? I use patterns to help keep the techniques sharp, but I certainly don't consider it to be dedicated self defense training. If you aren't going to do a right handed punch followed by a left handed low block then practicing these moves for self defense will actually hinder, and not help you. Self defense training needs to be against live resisting opponents, and it needs to make heavy use of scenarios.

 

[Aegis]

Solo kata are not realistic. They might teach you the ideal way to do movements, but they will not teach you to fight unless you practice the various methods of application for the techniques contained in them.

I attended a rather interesting short class on what the techniques from some karate kata actually look like when practiced for real, and I can say without a doubt that just practicing the kata without practicing that application at least as much will get you nowhere in terms of actually being able to fight.

Kata has it's place, but the moves in it are in the very best case the guide to doing a technique if everything is going exactly according to plan. And (to paraphrase) "the best laid plans last until the first arrow is fired"

 

[evenflow1121]

The last XMA show I saw on ESPN didn't even mention which "art" the performers (that's what they are in my opinion) were schooled in. If it
were serious Martial Arts don't you think that info would be important?

Absolutely I do, but then again it goes back to your definition "performers" I agree with that term as well.

 

[searcher]

The last XMA show I saw on ESPN didn't even mention which "art" the performers (that's what they are in my opinion) were schooled in. If it were serious Martial Arts don't you think that info would be important?

Most of the XMA are of Mike Chat's Shuri-ryu school(Robert Trias' school). The reason most of them don't present their school is that they are being payed to represent their team, not their school or style.