Your Thoughts on "Flash"?

Stac3y

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,103
Reaction score
40
I like to watch it. As long as tournaments have appropriate divisions for XMA, tricking, or whatever, I think it's cool. I just don't want to see it in traditional and creative divisions--there needs to be a place for competitors who can't (or choose not to) defy gravity.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
452
Location
Winnipeg MB
I sometimes wonder if guys that train for the Tour de France refuse to admit that BMX stuff counts as riding a bicycle...
 

Stac3y

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,103
Reaction score
40
I sometimes wonder if guys that train for the Tour de France refuse to admit that BMX stuff counts as riding a bicycle...

You make a good point. However, I wouldn't want to make them compete against each other--they share some traits, but are still very different.
 

mwd0818

Green Belt
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
174
Reaction score
9
Location
Louisville, KY
I am glad to see tournaments with "Creative" forms and "Traditional". It definitely helps that there is a distinction. As for "bad for the arts" . . . well, I don't think it furthers them, but I don't think it necessarily detracts from them. The people that are drawn to the flashy moves aren't really wanting to learn self-defense, they are wanting to learn cool moves that look neat. People that want to learn self-defense aren't going to walk into a school that has XMA and think "this stuff will be easy to learn and keep me safe!" On the flip side, I know that there is a lack of education to the public . . . so, it's only bad for the art if it's being "sold" as real self-defense.

As for an athletic event . . . very impressive. I only wish I could do what those parkour guys do . . . As a former aggressive skater (inline), I am amazed what those guys can do without the benefit of wheels!!!
 

blindsage

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
112
Location
Sacramento, CA
I'm not a fan of big flashy techniques and I personally hate tricking, but...

Having said that, I've seen plenty of spin kicks thrown in full contact matches that did their job (I've seen plenty fail as well, and I've never seen a 720). I've seen full-contact fighters use forward somersault kicks for knock outs (there used to be a Kyokushin guy in NY that was famous for it). There is a place for some spinning techniques, but hopefully those who practice them know the difference between flash and substance.
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
48
Hello, ....Nice to watch.... It seems "Flash" is for entertainment purposes...sure you need some martial art skills and be flexible as a gymist (skills)...

Keep in mind these people is for show only....Yes there will be times some of those techniques could work on the streets....BUT ..these people do it for the entertainment purpose..mainly! (not many people can do those tricks too...NICE to watch...fun to see!

Gotta be in great shape too....one of the key elements of being a good strong fighter....

Flash..? fun and entertaining to watch....Martial arts is starting to have its....share of "stage" showmanships...like the old wild west shows...?

We all saw those in the "Chinese Moves" ....stage shows...to get the peoples attention...

Aloha, ..."tricks are for kids" ...some of us are too old for "tricks" ...trick or treat...we take the candies first...
 
OP
Msby

Msby

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
96
Reaction score
3
Thanks for the input everyone. I wanted to get perspective from other martial artists. :asian:
If I've learned anything from this thread it's "Never search for XMA on youtube..." ugh, I sorted through tons of videos to find what I thought was the worst example :barf:
 

Stac3y

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,103
Reaction score
40
Thanks for the input everyone. I wanted to get perspective from other martial artists. :asian:
If I've learned anything from this thread it's "Never search for XMA on youtube..." ugh, I sorted through tons of videos to find what I thought was the worst example :barf:

Where's the link? I've gotta see this!
 

Bruno@MT

Senior Master
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
3,399
Reaction score
74
Personally I like this one, just for the showiness. It has little SD value, but I admire the flexibility and body control.


[yt]qx-LmIkXLBA[/yt]
 
OP
Msby

Msby

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
96
Reaction score
3
Where's the link? I've gotta see this!
Here's in my opinion, the "good" video and then the "bad" video

Here's the best videos I've found to sum up what I'm trying to say

Tricking: No mention of martial arts, except the concept of some of the kicks.

"Extreme Martial Arts": :mst: Content ahead is kinda disturbing

I could be wrong, then I'll just have to eat my words.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nolerama

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
1,227
Reaction score
71
Location
St. Louis, MO
Slap some ice skates on those kids, and get some old Russian guy to coach them and you have an Olympic contender. That's where XMA belongs. It's a show. It's for bad MA movies.

I see "tricking" or XMA as exactly the kind of MA I want my opponent to expect, only to be surprised by something real and painful. On the flip side, it would be kind of nice to see every opponent attempt "tricking" when they fight you. Yeah. Try missing a landing on hard gravel, buddy.

To me, XMA is horrible for the practitioner because it takes away from the practitioner's training time for solid, functional training methods in exchange for "flash".

Again, in my opinion, it takes away from the instructor as well. I think it's a bit hypocritical to say "hey, here is a functional form of SD, and a beautiful MA" on one side... and the other side says "hey, I'm going to take away from training and focus on the flashy stuff to please a crowd... because that's what fighting is... pleasing a crowd."

Please.

Sorry. I've been the victim of a few schools that ultimately had a focus in XMA. What they need to tell the practitioners before they walk in the door is that they should just take out the MA part, pay the instructor to outsource a gymnastics coach, and start marketing to other suckers to get them in the door.

MA= nutritious meal.
XMA= Fluffernutter
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
452
Location
Winnipeg MB
Again, in my opinion, it takes away from the instructor as well. I think it's a bit hypocritical to say "hey, here is a functional form of SD, and a beautiful MA" on one side... and the other side says "hey, I'm going to take away from training and focus on the flashy stuff to please a crowd... because that's what fighting is... pleasing a crowd."

Doing XMA to a high level, like doing anything to a high level, takes good coaching and dedicated athletes.

The guys "tricking" in these video are very dedicated to what they do and incredible athletes. The blood, sweat and effort they put into what they do puts many "traditional" schools to shame.

It might not be for you, or for me, but what they do takes a lot of dedication and hard work to do. Their coaches know what they are doing and do it well.
 

Milt G.

Purple Belt
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
340
Reaction score
7
Location
Hillsboro, OR.
Hello,
I, too, am glad there are seperate divisions, such as the contemporary division, at tournaments for the "flash". I have seen these "flash" divisions run together with the traditional and it always causes problems. Difficult to judge them both seperately and objectively, together.

While I believe it is an excellent show of a practitioners balance, timing, flexability and gymnastics ability, the "flash" is truly different then traditional martial arts as a whole. Kind of a newer "sub variant". I like the bicycling and BMX comparison.

I do think they have a place, and enjoy watching them. I just do not feel that "Jackie Chan" should compete in the same forms division with, say, "Gogen Yamaguchi" in his prime. Apples and oranges in this case, but both very skilled at what they do. They just do different things, IMO.

Maybe I feel this way because I cannot do the "flash", myself...?
I could, however, be on my backside in a "flash" trying it. :)

Good topic. Thank you.
Milt G.
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
21,918
Reaction score
7,474
Location
Covington, WA
Slap some ice skates on those kids, and get some old Russian guy to coach them and you have an Olympic contender. That's where XMA belongs. It's a show. It's for bad MA movies.
How is that different from Olympic TKD?
 

Joab

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
763
Reaction score
9
I think it's flashy. Well, if somebody wants to look flashy I say let them look flashy. If that's your motivation, more power to ya! Personally, I never look flashy, and I don't care.
 

just2kicku

Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
691
Reaction score
35
Location
SoCal
To me, I think that "tricking or urban ninja" stuff is fun to watch. But as far as SD, there's really no value in it. I think the problem I have with the XMA is that they say they are a real martial art.
As far as flashy stuff in tourneys, I don't agree and could care less if someone can hold their leg up in the air and throw 10,000 kicks at nothing.
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
271
Location
Olney, Maryland
XMA is an adjunct to a martial art. No, I disagree that it make the martial arts look bad as others maintain.

The level of training and practice required to effectively do XMA is incredibly high. Like breaking, it is not for everyone to focus in or practice. But if you can do do it and are in a demonstration, strut your stuff.

I agree that it is not the best stuff for SD. Thing is, the guys and gals who do that stuff generally know that and have more traditional SD techniques in their arsenal.

Daniel
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
189
Location
Sanger CA
The way I see it, it is kind of like having a flashy car. I don't drive a flashy car, I drive a car that looks dull, boring, the antithesis of flashy. However, inside it is powerful.
 

Latest Discussions

Top