to weapon or not to weapon

[wade]

OK, I guess I misunderstood the question. I thought it was did (you) teach weapons in your school. It is now about weather such weapons are legal or not. Hmmmm, I teach the sword, Sai, Tonfa, Kama, throwing spikes, knife, long and short staff and nunchaku. Are they legal to carry in publick, no. Do I still teach them, yes, why, cause I like too.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I was wondering in your TKD school do you have weapon class and if so what weapons and poomsae do you teach with each weapon? How many classes a week involve some sort of weapon training?

When I was training at my instructor's dojo we had to learn boken and bo (1 form each) for 1st black. Instruction was on a semi private basis, meaning if there was only one or two of us then we would work on the katas or applications of the forms, if more people showed up then we probably fought.

Later we had it more formalized in that we had classes at a site in downtown Dallas were we learned boken, sai, nunchaku, jo, tonfa, bo etc. etc. This was for brown and black belts, however if I remember right it was mainly for black belts.

The American TKD association that I was with (AKATO) (I'm not currently a dues paying member) has made weapons instruction part of the curiculumn for advanced brown and black belts by having once a month classes for a couple of hours on Saturdays where they work through a program on the tradtional kobudo weapons with testing etc. etc. in those weapons. I believe that many of the advanced belts use these weapons for specilty requirements on their tests.

In the American TKD class that I'm now working out with the instructor is a policeman and so with that he shows some baton work (retention and such) to his black belt students, although I'm not sure if this is part of their requirements for advancement in black belt ranks.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I have worked a little escrima after the formal adult class. 1) I am with Exile on this, it absolutlely has to be an upper ranking belt. I am a brown first formally in Judo so I met the requirement. 2) We, the adults, were told that a sword, tonfa, escrima, knife, etc is nothing but and extension of your hand. 3) So the fact the strikes like knife and ridge hand strikes were the optimal.

In hapkido cane is part of the blue belt cirriculum.

Matt
I added numbers to your post to address it. I'm not trying to get off topic here by a debate on which is better etc. etc.

I am glad to see that you are working on the escrima after your adult classes. I am biased in this because I have been really studying more of the FMA in the last 14 years than focusing on TKD studies, but my FMA studies has helped with my knowledge in TKD but in a different way.

1) I believe that the study of weapons and how they relate to empty hand defense is a very important aspect of training and should be included right from the begining. Not so much for kids as for adults though. In order to effectivly defend against a weapon I think you must study and know the weapons characteristics (as in impact, edged, or flexible weapons) and you gain that knowledge through applying techniques to individuals and they in turn applying them to you.

2) You are right we are told that the sword, stick, knife, rope is an extension of the hand, and it is. But the question is how many people are seasoned enough martial artists that really understand this. I mean a pocket stick has the same characteristics as a good ball point pen, or a hair brush, chop sticks, silverware etc. etc. Or your flash light is like a short escrima stick (I like the 5 C cell Mag light my self ), but then so is the tire iron, or that pry bar screw driver, or a raquet ball raquet. But unless people drill it into their minds and I believe actually practice using these items to reinforce the concept into their minds then they don't think about it when the time comes.

3) I believe I understand your intent here with this comment (although at first it threw me). The knife hand strike can also be a spear hand to the eyes (the fingers are formed the same way but the angle an execution of the technique is different), and the ridge hand is like a hook punch.

I've got to run and take my son to school I'll finish in another post.

 

[Mark Lynn]

So the fact the strikes like knife and ridge hand strikes were the optimal.

Matt

All the strikes are optimal at the proper time. But not all strikes are optimal all of the time.

 

[zDom]

... the sword, stick, knife, rope is an extension of the hand ... But the question is how many people are seasoned enough martial artists that really understand this ... Or your flash light is like a short escrima stick ... But unless people drill it into their minds and I believe actually practice using these items to reinforce the concept into their minds then they don't think about it when the time comes.

Before I started formally training martial arts, a friend introduced me to escrima sticks.

Not long after, a fella decided to attack me with a hammer. I happened to have two hollow dumbbell handles within easy reach — very short, when compared to a escrima stick, but long enough to add about a foot to my reach for each hand.

A feint with one followed immediately by a strike to the back of his hammer-holding hand with the other and the conflict was over: he ran off (in a lot of pain) to get a better weapon, thus providing me with the opportunity to leave the area.

and the ridge hand is like a hook punch.

Yep. And it has more range and more power. I LOVE the ridge hand.

 

[TKDmel]

Nope. Tae Kwon Do has traditionally been a bare hands/bare feet style. We do learn weapons defense though, either incorporating poomsae technique or as self defense training.
The exception has been the fact that our Grandmaster studied kendo while in Korea and has taught sword technique to the very senior students. He does not incorporate that into the general TKD curriculum however.

Our school also teaches sword techniques, but only at the 3rd dan level. I myself have always been fascinated by the sai and would love to learn more about it.

 

[Sir. Cola]

It depends on the fighting style and if you want to. For example, I like to use Bo staffs sometimes.

 

[Haruhiko]

I was wondering in your TKD school do you have weapon class and if so what weapons and poomsae do you teach with each weapon? How many classes a week involve some sort of weapon training?

Fascinating. Since 2000 I've not once heard of weapons training in TKD. I was WTF at the time.

Is it taught now? In an official capacity? Are there patterns incorporating weapons? I can't imagine there are...

 

[Earl Weiss103]

Fascinating. Since 2000 I've not once heard of weapons training in TKD. I was WTF at the time.

Is it taught now? In an official capacity? Are there patterns incorporating weapons? I can't imagine there are...

Some T K D Instructors teach weapons. That does not mean there are (Offensive curricula for ) weapons in T K D . I know one who teaches harpsichord making.

 

[isshinryuronin1]

One thing about adding weapons to an empty-hand curriculum is that sometimes the biomechanics will be different so the two disciplines will not be synergistic. Also, instructors who do so are often themselves have just a rudimentary understanding of the weapon. Care should be taken here.

 

[philwhite37]

I feel like weapons are often forced as another way to add time to a program that is unnecessary. We did bo and kamas and it was a waste of time. I hated both and got nothing in terms of actual use out of them. I'd rather fight with my fists over using either since we never added these to sparring so I have no actual proficinecy in either.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Most of the T K D and TK-D tournaments I go to have weapons competition. Because of that, most offer some sort of weapons curriculum. Most focus on sport, while others have a traditional curriculum. I don't personally care for the sport forms, as most of them don't have a fundamental understanding of the weapon (i.e. how to even hold it properly). I have seen a Tang Soo Do practitioner perform a beautiful version of Sushi No Kun with a couple of signature tang soo do kicks added to it.

Our association does not offer a weapons curriculum.

I had training in Ryuei Ryu Kobudo when I was a teen, and I had the opportunity to train with some Shorei Ryu folks when I was in my mid 20's. I teach the bo to my black belts as a supplemental curriculum (it is not mandatory), as well as a couple of other weapons. I emphasize that the training is not about the weapon as much as it is about the synergistic effect weapons training has on empty hand techniques. My instructor always said, if you want to learn how to use a weapon for self defense, purchase a gun and train in that. The sai improves forearm and grip strength, important for "sticky palm" techniques. The bo improves coordination between the hands and the trunk, etc.

I use the weapons as an adjunct and motivator for students; particularly those who enjoy competition, as it gives them another opportunity. It is not graded, it is not mandatory, it is not ranked, and it is not part of our official curriculum.