Taekwondo teacher choked student to show off move

[msmitht]

Tae Kwon Do is a martial art and has defenses against choking attacks the same as many other martial arts.

My point exactly. We have defense against chokes. We are not choking experts unless we have studied judo, hapkido(real) or jujitsu extensively.

 

[msmitht]

Not sure I get your point. Do we have detailed info on this person's background?

The USTF might be viewed as "TKD org." but it's curriculum includes chokes.

Having a curriculum that includes chokes does not make a practitioner an expert in choking someone nor does it qualify them to render a student unconscious for the purpose of technical demonstration. Tkd curriculum includes punching but who are the punching experts? Boxers. Leave the choking to those who know it best.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Two completely different things. A competitor has the opportunity to fight back and all involved know the risks. The mother may have consented and fully understood the risks but why use a child? Why not use an adult? For that matter why is a tkd instructor teaching a rear naked choke to anyone? It is definitely not in the kkw/ITF curriculum. Was he CPR certified? Was there a doctor present?
I still say it was a foolish thing to do and no bjj black belt that I know, and I know a lot of them, would ever do that to any student as a part of a demonstration. I sent the link to a few Gracie family members I personally know and they all said the same thing:"why did he do that?"

Perhaps you missed the fact that the competitors in the video I posted were also minors. And blunt force trauma sufficient to result in a knockout is absolute positively more dangerous than a blood choke.

It was a foolish thing to do, since the technique can be quite adequately demonstrated without rendering anyone unconscious. But it was not evil.
And while your curriculum apparently does not include these techniques, there are certainly those which do. That means they need to be demonstrated. Not in the way this person chose to do so, but they do need to be demonstrated. And practiced.

 

[msmitht]

Perhaps you missed the fact that the competitors in the video I posted were also minors. And blunt force trauma sufficient to result in a knockout is absolute positively more dangerous than a blood choke.

It was a foolish thing to do, since the technique can be quite adequately demonstrated without rendering anyone unconscious. But it was not evil.
And while your curriculum apparently does not include these techniques, there are certainly those which do. That means they need to be demonstrated. Not in the way this person chose to do so, but they do need to be demonstrated. And practiced.

1. I never said that it should not be practiced or that I do not teach it at my school. I am kkw 5th dan and bij black belt. I know the value of real self defense.
2. I do not need t see a list of the instructors qualifications. I know he is not good or qualified. If he was he would not had done what he did.

 

[K-man]

My point exactly. We have defense against chokes. We are not choking experts unless we have studied judo, hapkido(real) or jujitsu extensively.

Not quite right. We have chokes in Goju. They are traditional and they are in the kata. I'm not sure that that makes us less qualified to apply chokes than judo, BJJ or 'real' hapkido. I would have thought 'real' TKD with its roots in karate would be the same.
:asian:

 

[Earl Weiss]

Having a curriculum that includes chokes does not make a practitioner an expert in choking someone nor does it qualify them to render a student unconscious for the purpose of technical demonstration. Tkd curriculum includes punching but who are the punching experts? Boxers. Leave the choking to those who know it best.

The organization director of technique for this curriculum is a highly ranked BB with the United States Judo Association. The USTF has certain instructors in various areas under him who are the "Instructors" for this curriculm. At least one of them is a USJA BB as well.

I am reluctant to use the term "Expert" since there is no criteria for establishing this.

Are you saying we should leave boxing instruction to Boxers?

 

[Rumy73]

Funny, I was talking to the winner of that match about a month ago at a sporting goods store while he was working. (I had recognised him from a time when he popped into the school where I was training). Although his friends in the video seem to think a KO from a head kick is a great thing, he was very humble and enjoyed talking about the sport and martial art aspect. Nice teenage kid.

Keep your hands up... Oops it is tkd olympic sparring... We don't need no stinkin' guard up...

 

[Instructor]

While I think choking (vascular or otherwise) in class to the point of loss of consciousness is unwise and perhaps dangerous; I think that defending the throat is an important subject for any and every martial art. I suspect that most if not all martial arts have some curriculum dedicated to defense of the throat.

In a sport like boxing you might have to dig into it's roots and history a bit to find these defenses, but I suspect they existed at some point.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

While I think choking (vascular or otherwise) in class to the point of loss of consciousness is unwise and perhaps dangerous; I think that defending the throat is an important subject for any and every martial art. I suspect that most if not all martial arts have some curriculum dedicated to defense of the throat.

Agreed!

In a sport like boxing you might have to dig into it's roots and history a bit to find these defenses, but I suspect they existed at some point.

Chin down, raise shoulder, hit them hard before they can establish the hold.

 

[msmitht]

The organization director of technique for this curriculum is a highly ranked BB with the United States Judo Association. The USTF has certain instructors in various areas under him who are the "Instructors" for this curriculm. At least one of them is a USJA BB as well.

I am reluctant to use the term "Expert" since there is no criteria for establishing this.

Are you saying we should leave boxing instruction to Boxers?

Sounds like the director would know his stuff. Doesn't necessarily mean all in that org train in judo or have the same qualifications.
An expert would be a black belt in bjj, judo, sambo or another grappling art/style that has applied the technique both with and without resistance for more than 10 years.
I have learned punching skills from boxers, tkd and 2 years of kyokushin. Boxing had best drills(for me).

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Boxing had best drills(for me).

To me, the boxing style of punching is good to learn. However, the slipping is a skill I'd really like to be taught / learn.

There's a couple kids at tkd who also take boxing. We were playing around with 1 step sparrings, and I asked one of the kids (13 years old) what would he really do. He slipped the punch and jabbed. He was very quick and smooth, and I thought that this would be as good of a 1 step as on of the ones our school teaches.

 

[punisher73]

Two completely different things. A competitor has the opportunity to fight back and all involved know the risks. The mother may have consented and fully understood the risks but why use a child? Why not use an adult? For that matter why is a tkd instructor teaching a rear naked choke to anyone? It is definitely not in the kkw/ITF curriculum. Was he CPR certified? Was there a doctor present?
I still say it was a foolish thing to do and no bjj black belt that I know, and I know a lot of them, would ever do that to any student as a part of a demonstration. I sent the link to a few Gracie family members I personally know and they all said the same thing:"why did he do that?"

I know "Judo" Gene LeBell used to choke people out on a regular basis during appearances and demos. People used to line up to have him choke them out.
What seems strange to some is normal to others.

 

[punisher73]

Since it was implied that BJJ wouldn't do this type of thing and the Gracies were brought into it, I typed in "BJJ choke out demo" into youtube and the first video that came up was a Gracie school doing the EXACT same thing that this TKD instructor did.

If you watch the TKD video again, it is hard to see because of the blurring, but as soon as the girl's hand falls he releases the choke, the same as the BJJ guy.

That aside, I agree that an older student should have been used to demo on. Too much liability about putting students of the opposite sex to sleep, let alone a minor. Yes, I realize that the parents were present as were others. Just making the statement as a general idea in regards to liability and accusations.

 

[RTKDCMB]

I know "Judo" Gene LeBell used to choke people out on a regular basis during appearances and demos. People used to line up to have him choke them out.
What seems strange to some is normal to others.

Were any of those 16 year old girls?

 

[punisher73]

Were any of those 16 year old girls?

Read my next post. I addressed the use of this particular person. The post you quoted was in regards to people choking out people in demos and how no BJJ bb's did that etc.

 

[msmitht]

Not a smart thing to do nor was guy completely out. Guess you find all sorts on the internet. I have personally been choked out and have choked others out but was during live training sessions. Main issue is simple: why do people feel the need to demonstrate what has been proven to work? Its like shooting yourself in the foot to see if it hurts. I know many bjj black belts and none would do this. One said he would just show video clips of Rickson leaving fighters unconscious to anyone who questioned if the choke would work.

 

[Master Dan]

Well if the video is accurate in time it does not seem the student was deprived of blood very long possibly seconds which is all it takes to effect the brain and other functions we were always taught this as a way to take someone quietly fast from behind while moving backwards quickly so the person cannot regain their balance and is quickly taken out. Why do this sitting and on a young female? and even worse video for all to see. This should be for an older group and there are many quick chokes that are more appropriate for youngster's for self defense. Yes I think the Dr. just wants his sound bite on TV. But there is a lot being done related to PP and chokes that are dangerous and have long term health issues also

 

[Earl Weiss]

Why do this sitting

The seated position avoids having the Chokee suddenly drop and strain their kneck. They are also in the seated resuccitation position commonly used.

 

[Rumy73]

Not a smart thing to do nor was guy completely out. Guess you find all sorts on the internet. I have personally been choked out and have choked others out but was during live training sessions. Main issue is simple: why do people feel the need to demonstrate what has been proven to work? Its like shooting yourself in the foot to see if it hurts. I know many bjj black belts and none would do this. One said he would just show video clips of Rickson leaving fighters unconscious to anyone who questioned if the choke would work.

I agree. I am not sure if I am more disturbed by this joker of a tkd teacher or those who have defended what was done, even in the slightest way.