Stength & Conditioning for Wing Chun

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Hi Everyone,

I am wondering what kind of focus everyone has for improving strength & fitness for Wing Chun (if any). Do people just rely on the practice or do you do anything separate. I know my school does some fitness as part of a class sometimes but mostly it is something people have to do on their own if you really want to make progress.

The reason I ask is I am a personal trainer and study sport science, and in my training of combat sports these are often very separate to help improve the body movements and ability on a physical level, rather than just a skill level. I have created a sport science based program for Wing Chun, but am just curious about whether this is something other practitioners focus on?
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,238
Reaction score
3,370
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I have created a sport science based program for Wing Chun, but am just curious about whether this is something other practitioners focus on?

Welcome to Martialtalk, Red. In my WC group, physical conditioning is not much addressed during class. Everyone knows it's necessary, but it's left mostly up to the individual, and class time is just used for Wing Chun. Personally, I'd be very interested in hearing more about what you've come up with.
 
OP
R

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
The southern Tai Zu system uses this kind of strength and condition training.

Thanks, this is more bone and body conditioning rather than proper strength & conditioning. Im talking about building cardio, muscle, power, speed & mobility to help improve WC skills though
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,508
Location
Manchester UK
Thanks, this is more bone and body conditioning rather than proper strength & conditioning. Im talking about building cardio, muscle, power, speed & mobility to help improve WC skills though
there a tendency towards people theorizing that development of skill makes up for a lack of strengh and conditioning in tma in general, which has a level of truth in it, if you dont push it to far and go up against someone who has significantly greater conditioning, as they tend to "fight" with in the dojo with people who have a similar philosophy this bubble dorsnt get popped enough to motivate them to change
 
OP
R

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
there a tendency towards people theorizing that development of skill makes up for a lack of strengh and conditioning in tma in general, which has a level of truth in it, if you dont push it to far and go up against someone who has significantly greater conditioning, as they tend to "fight" with in the dojo with people who have a similar philosophy this bubble dorsnt get popped enough to motivate them to change
Yes I agree 100%- technique is king but if you have two people equally skilled, then the fitter stronger person will win every time. Thats why I feel it is important to make sure you train your body as best you can to help give you skills a push
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,095
Reaction score
4,674
Location
San Francisco
I personally believe that strength training and cardio conditioning are an important part of martial training. I dont know if there are specific such exercises that will be especially beneficial for wing Chun folks vs. other folks. Im not a wing Chun guy. But I put in some strength training and some running each week, in addition to training of my martial system. When weather permits, I like swimming too.

If youve identified certain exercises that seem particularly appropriate for wing Chun, then go with that. Otherwise, any such exercises are likely to be beneficial on some level.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
12,997
Reaction score
3,989
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Yes I agree 100%- technique is king but if you have two people equally skilled, then the fitter stronger person will win every time. Thats why I feel it is important to make sure you train your body as best you can to help give you skills a push
Old CMA saying said, "Your strength can defeat your opponent's 10 best techniques".

Technique is the 1st 50%. Ability is the 2nd 50%. You can learn technique in school. You have to develop ability all by yourself.

Different MA systems use different training equipment to develop "ability".

 
Last edited:

wckf92

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
512
I am wondering what kind of focus everyone has for improving strength & fitness for Wing Chun (if any).

I think strength and fitness is huge, and I've always made it a staple in my training. I could write volumes about it and conduct exhaustive seminars/workshops on this topic. The reason it isn't foremost on peoples minds is because it requires hard work.
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
2,405
Reaction score
1,183
The southern Tai Zu system uses this kind of strength and condition training.


Maybe you already know this, but Taizuquan is not a southern system, but yet another Shaolin Longfist school that branched out in all directions.

This is Taizuquan Nanquan, as opposed to Taizuquan Chanquan, and ironically the Northern style is centered around Canton in south China, whereas Nanquan Taizuquan is actually centered in Taiwan, even further south of Fujian province, the home of the "Southern" Shaolin way.

I've always found this very amusing.
 

hunschuld

Blue Belt
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
234
Reaction score
151
Old CMA saying said, "Your strength can defeat your opponent's 10 best techniques".

Technique is the 1st 50%. Ability is the 2nd 50%. You can learn technique in school. You have to develop ability all by yourself.

Different MA systems use different training equipment to develop "ability".



Always impressed with Shuai Jiao training methods.

I do have one complaint, Cant you ever find a fat Shuai Jiao guy in a video? You are making the rest of us look bad.
 
OP
R

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
I personally believe that strength training and cardio conditioning are an important part of martial training. I dont know if there are specific such exercises that will be especially beneficial for wing Chun folks vs. other folks. Im not a wing Chun guy. But I put in some strength training and some running each week, in addition to training of my martial system. When weather permits, I like swimming too.

If youve identified certain exercises that seem particularly appropriate for wing Chun, then go with that. Otherwise, any such exercises are likely to be beneficial on some level.
Yes I train other arts as well which require a good degree of fitness so I like to have a wide variety of physical training options separately. The exercises I use therefore are general and good for building strength and fitness even for non-wing chun practitioners, but with a focus on WC specific muscle groups and attributes that will be particularly beneficial
 
OP
R

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
Old CMA saying said, "Your strength can defeat your opponent's 10 best techniques".

Technique is the 1st 50%. Ability is the 2nd 50%. You can learn technique in school. You have to develop ability all by yourself.

Different MA systems use different training equipment to develop "ability".

Love that I might have to steal that quote haha
 

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,508
Location
Manchester UK
Yes I train other arts as well which require a good degree of fitness so I like to have a wide variety of physical training options separately. The exercises I use therefore are general and good for building strength and fitness even for non-wing chun practitioners, but with a focus on WC specific muscle groups and attributes that will be particularly beneficial
which exercises are particularly beneficial to wc specific muscle groups and which muscle groups and attributes are those ?
 
Last edited:

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
12,997
Reaction score
3,989
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
To complete your training, you will need

1. Partner drill to "develop" skill.
2. Sparring/wrestling to "test' skill.
3. Solo drill/form to "polish" skill.
4. Equipment/weight training to "enhance" skill.

It seems to me that 4 is not fully addressed in the WC system.

I assume that the "3 stars" training that you use your arm to strike on your opponent's arm (or on a tree trunk) should be WC people's basic training.


https://www.bilibili.com/video/av17898682/
 
Last edited:

yak sao

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,175
Reaction score
753
To complete your training, you will need

1. Partner drill to "develop" skill.
2. Sparring/wrestling to "test' skill.
3. Solo drill/form to "polish" skill.
4. Equipment/weight training to "enhance" skill.

It seems to me that 4 is not fully addressed in the WC system.

I assume that the "3 stars" training that you use your arm to strike on your opponent's arm (or on a tree trunk) should be WC people's basic training.


https://www.bilibili.com/video/av17898682/

The dummy and wall bag provide some of this, but yeah I agree, WC training is not enough for conditioning and needs to be supplemented

Also, while not the goal, one of the by products of dummy training is forearm conditioning.
 
OP
R

redpanda

White Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
5
which exercises are particularly beneficial to wc specific muscle groups and which muscle groups and attributes are those ?
Well I like to focus on joint mobility particularly working thoracic mobility and shoulder to help increase the freedom of movement throughout the body to allow energy transfer more easily. Muscle wise its good to focus on the legs, particularly the calves quads and adductors but general leg strength should be a big focus. Core training with a focus on anti-flexion and anti-rotation so no power is leaked. Also lots of work to the serratus as that is what WC punches use that is a little different to most martial arts. Also a focus on speed and power development with the muscles throughout the whole body.
Sorry for the long reply its something I can talk heaps about haha
 

yak sao

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,175
Reaction score
753
Well I like to focus on joint mobility particularly working thoracic mobility and shoulder to help increase the freedom of movement throughout the body to allow energy transfer more easily. Muscle wise its good to focus on the legs, particularly the calves quads and adductors but general leg strength should be a big focus. Core training with a focus on anti-flexion and anti-rotation so no power is leaked. Also lots of work to the serratus as that is what WC punches use that is a little different to most martial arts. Also a focus on speed and power development with the muscles throughout the whole body.
Sorry for the long reply its something I can talk heaps about haha

As a WT guy, I tend to do a lot of pullups.
Also, I think it's a good idea to not only work the muscles involved in WT/ WC training but to work the antagonist muscles that are generally not used to prevent muscle inbalance.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
12,997
Reaction score
3,989
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Well I like to focus on joint mobility particularly working thoracic mobility and shoulder to help increase the freedom of movement throughout the body to allow energy transfer more easily.
You need to loose your 3 joints, shoulder joint, elbow joint, and wrist joint. There is an Zimen system training to do that.

1. Loose shoulder joint - Raise right hand next to your right ear, chop down to the left of your left knee.
2. Loose elbow joint - Move right hand from your left knee to in front of your chest.
3. Loose wrist joint - Move right hand from in front of your chest to your right side.
4. Send energy through all 3 joints - Move right hand above right ear, drop your hand straight down next to your right knee.
Repeat 1 - 4 for the left arm.

One day when you move your arms from 1 - 4 so fast that you can't even see your own hands, you have developed some speed.
 

Eric_H

Black Belt
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
576
Reaction score
114
Location
San Francisco
I am wondering what kind of focus everyone has for improving strength & fitness for Wing Chun (if any)

In our line we have two categories

* Gei Buhn Gung (Body exercise)
My school doesn't do this. I had to do it on my own, I've found squats, rows and pullups to be difference makers. Though the owner has revealed himself to be a less than stellar guy, Crossfit has worked wonders for me in the past. Still hate Oly lifting though.

* Gei Buhn Gung Git Faat Guy (Body exercise specific to the system)
Rounds of punching and footwork drills, attribute specific drilling sets, muscle/tendon/bone external chi kung sets etc. We tend to do these seasonally with whatever the current training focus is.

YMMV, but I've found having a fit-ish body to be a way better life booster than being good at WC.
 
Top