Branches of Wing Chun question

Xue Sheng

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Not trying to start and don't want a "My lineage is better than your lineage" thread, so please keep the politics to a minimum.

Years ago when I was learning Sil Lum Tao for the first time I wanted a video to help me remember what I was learning. I ended up getting a VCD from China because, as I thought then, where better to get a video of a chinese martial art than China. I got it, put it in the DVD player and what I sa was rather different than what I was being taught.

I later discovered what had happened was that I was I was being taught Sil Lum Tao in the Ip Man branch of Wing Chun and the VCD was the Pan Nam branch of Wing Chun. Up to that point I didn't even know there were different, non-Ip Man branches of Wing Chun

Last night I was thinking about this and out of curiosity I started looking for a branch of Wing Chun that was not from Ip Man and I did not find one.

Made me think about Yang stye taijiquan, finding a branch that does not come from Yang Chengfu is near impossible, and those I have seen that claimed to be from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou or Yang Shaohou likely are not. Save one I saw, he was an old Yang stylist in China who, to be honest ,I am not sure if he is still alive, but what he did have the characteristics of what I would expect in Yang style that predates Yang Chengfu's change to the style.

And I am now thinking the same about Wing Chun, do any of the non-Ip Man branches still exist, and if so, do any exist outside of China? And how rare are they?

I also know there is a very old Chinese practice of claiming lineages to famous folks to better sell your product (style). Could this have occured in Wing Chun? one branch claiming to be from Ip Man when they were actually part of another branch?
 
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obi_juan_salami

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Not trying to start and don't want a "My lineage is better than your lineage" thread, so please keep the politics to a minimum.

Years ago when I was learning Sil Lum Tao for the first time I wanted a video to help me remember what I was learning. I ended up getting a VCD from China because, as I thought then, where better to get a video of a chinese martial art than China. I got it, put it in the DVD player and what I sa was rather different than what I was being taught.

I later discovered what had happened was that I was I was being taught Sil Lum Tao in the Ip Man branch of Wing Chun and the VCD was the Pan Nam branch of Wing Chun. Up to that point I didn't even know there were different, non-Ip Man branches of Wing Chun

Last night I was thinking about this and out of curiosity I started looking for a branch of Wing Chun that was not from Ip Man and I did not find one.

Made me think about Yang stye taijiquan, finding a branch that does not come from Yang Chengfu is near impossible, and those I have seen that claimed to be from Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou or Yang Shaohou likely are not. Save one I saw, he was an old Yang stylist in China who, to be honest ,I am not sure if he is still alive, but what he did have the characteristics of what I would expect in Yang style that predates Yang Chengfu's change to the style.

And I am now thinking the same about Wing Chun, do any of the non-Ip Man branches still exist, and if so, do any exist outside of China? And how rare are they?

I also know there is a very old Chinese practice of claiming lineages to famous folks to better sell your product (style). Could this have occured in Wing Chun? one branch claiming to be from Ip Man when they were actually part of another branch?

They certainly still exist to varying degrees of quality inside and outside mainland china. i think the yip man style is just more mainstream in the west with the popularity of bruce lee and by extension his teacher. This made it more saught after in hong kong over the years with westerners taking it back home and openening schools. Aside from the commercialisation and overall availability in my experience its certainly more accessible as a style and more conducive to class style, public learning.

there are obviously snake oil salesmen like there are in any popular business. people use famous masters names all the time to bolster their marketing. i saw an intervirw with ip chun saying there were plenty using his name on their schools after only a couple weeks visit in hong kong.

We learn hong kong style and guangzhou style in australia.
 

geezer

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...there are obviously snake oil salesmen like there are in any popular business.

The real question here is about snake oil. Is it oil made from snakes ....or is it oil made for snakes? If it's for snakes, how do they pay for it? And why do snakes want to get oily anyway?

Really, I think the whole concept is highly suspect.
 

BrendanF

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Yeah there's the Pan Nam/Sum Nung line, Pao Fa Lien, Yuen Kay San and others that are not YM derived. Then too there are the Weng Chun lines.
 

obi_juan_salami

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The real question here is about snake oil. Is it oil made from snakes ....or is it oil made for snakes? If it's for snakes, how do they pay for it? And why do snakes want to get oily anyway?

Really, I think the whole concept is highly suspect.

Mate, its made BY snakes. To fund the International Snake Invasion Society or ISIS.
 

Flying Crane

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The real question here is about snake oil. Is it oil made from snakes ....or is it oil made for snakes? If it's for snakes, how do they pay for it? And why do snakes want to get oily anyway?

Really, I think the whole concept is highly suspect.
And any oil made from snakes, well, that just conjures some disturbing images.
 
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Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

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iu
 

APL76

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I have learned both Yip Man Wing Chun and Yuen Kay San Wing Chun.
 
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Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

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I have learned both Yip Man Wing Chun and Yuen Kay San Wing Chun.

Are there major differences, or are they similar?

The times I trained WIng Chun, they both originated from Ip Man, just one was from Ip Ching and the other was from Leung Sheung and there were slight differences
 

APL76

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Are there major differences, or are they similar?

The times I trained WIng Chun, they both originated from Ip Man, just one was from Ip Ching and the other was from Leung Sheung and there were slight differences
To an outside observer they would probably lock quite similar but when you know them they might as well be different martial arts.
 

Snark

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This WC system has a lot of white crane flavor.

.

I am pretty sure this is Weng Chun. I understand there is some controversy as to whether it is separate to wing chun, but Michael Tang the grandson of Tang Yik, a fairly renowned practitioner of weng chun has always maintained its an entirely separate art.

I believe Cheng Kwong, the man in the video was Andreas Hoffman's teacher, who runs a very successful weng chun/bjj/mma school/s in Europe
 
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Eric_H

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Yep, though looking at the form for the first time since I learned it, I see some differences between it and what the other video has:
 

Kung Fu Wang

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There are less body movement in the WC clip. There are more body movement in the white crane clip. Both are southern CMA systems. But the basic training are quite different.

WC clip - when he moves his arm, his body is not moving.


White crane - when he moves his body, his arm is not moving.

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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What's the difference between the "Yong Chun White Crane" and WC? It sounds like the white crane has strong connection with the WC system.

Here are some clips of Yong Chun White Crane.





 

Flying Crane

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A bit of thread drift here, but could someone please clarify a couple things for me?

Is Weng Chun a different and distinct system from Wing Chun? Is it a lineage variant? Is it just a spelling variant embraced by a certain lineage?

Is Yon Chun White Crane part of the Fukien White Crane family of systems?

Same question for Yue Nam White Crane.

Thanks.
 

Snark

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A bit of thread drift here, but could someone please clarify a couple things for me?

Is Weng Chun a different and distinct system from Wing Chun? Is it a lineage variant? Is it just a spelling variant embraced by a certain lineage?

Is Yon Chun White Crane part of the Fukien White Crane family of systems?

Same question for Yue Nam White Crane.

Thanks.


KPM did a bang up job of explaining the origins of wing chun and weng chun in an earlier thread. Whether they are the same or not depends on who you talk to and what they are selling.

What is weng chun? | MartialTalk.Com - Friendly Martial Arts Forum Community

Though seems now the marketing of weng chun is sold increasingly as a more authentic/traditional/artisan/free-range organic with no artificial flavours or colourings wing chun.

Pick your poison.
 

obi_juan_salami

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A bit of thread drift here, but could someone please clarify a couple things for me?

Is Weng Chun a different and distinct system from Wing Chun? Is it a lineage variant? Is it just a spelling variant embraced by a certain lineage?

Is Yon Chun White Crane part of the Fukien White Crane family of systems?

Same question for Yue Nam White Crane.

Thanks.

re wing chun and weng chun, it is my underatanding they are two different styles. however they were passed down by the same and/or related ancestors in the same region so 'cross polonation' of sorts did occur. Thats the best way i can put it.
 
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