Spin hook kick

[ralphmcpherson]

This question is mainly aimed at the sports tkdists out there so I can get a new perspective. I attended grading on monday night and paid particular attention to the sparring. There was a 4th gup there who was one of the best exponents of the spin hook in sparring that Ive seen (bear in mind that its not a kick used much at our club, particularly in sparring, so its not something I see a lot of particularly from the lower belts). This particular guy has done sport tkd before to a reasonable level but is relatively new to our system. Im just wondering, from the sports perspective, what are the natural counters to spin hook kicks that you guys use in sparring? Are there combos you use to set them up etc etc. Basically what is your gameplan when you come up against an opponent known for being a good exponent of this kick. Thanks in advance.

 

[Gorilla]

A strong cut/sidekick. Checks to draw it out

We use the spin hook allot both as a counter and offensively.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Is a cut kick a sidekick, or is there a slight difference?

 

[ATC]

Tal laid it out perfectly, the side or front cut kick will work on just about any spinning kick. Your target is back hip of the kicking leg or side. Will send your opponent crashing to the floor, hard.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Interesting. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Gnarlie]

Against a good, fast hook kicker I've found that I have to be 1) almost out of range of their kick in the first place, and 2) bloody quick on the draw or already have my knee up prepared, to deliver the cut kick in time to stymie their kick.

I've always preferred the (admittedly less modern) bada-chagi, the underkick, because it actually begins at the range where you would be kicked, in a normal fighting stance, and doesn't require lightning reflexes. From closed stance, as the hook kick is launched, lean away slightly and throw a long counter bichagi under their kicking leg onto the front of the hogu. This technique does leave one vulnerable to the fake hook kick/hook kick combination though, as they can catch you as you regain your normal stance after the fake. Not bad if you're aware of that though, and add a slide-back evasion after your counter.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Against a good, fast hook kicker I've found that I have to be 1) almost out of range of their kick in the first place, and 2) bloody quick on the draw or already have my knee up prepared, to deliver the cut kick in time to stymie their kick.

I've always preferred the (admittedly less modern) bada-chagi, the underkick, because it actually begins at the range where you would be kicked, in a normal fighting stance, and doesn't require lightning reflexes. From closed stance, as the hook kick is launched, lean away slightly and throw a long counter bichagi under their kicking leg onto the front of the hogu. This technique does leave one vulnerable to the fake hook kick/hook kick combination though, as they can catch you as you regain your normal stance after the fake. Not bad if you're aware of that though, and add a slide-back evasion after your counter.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. What is a 'bichagi' though? We dont use the korean names for kicks so Im not up with the korean terms unfortunately.

 

[Gnarlie]

Umm, in America they call it a roundhouse, I think. In the UK, a half-turning kick, to the body. In this tech, it's combined with a stance switch/slip backward, causing the back foot to land where the front foot was after the kick.

 

[Gnarlie]

Some slow-ish demos from the dude in the red hogu from 2:25

 

[Buka]

If you're fast on a blitz, the best way to deal with a spinning hook is to jam the kicker. But this depends on the distance you like to keep from your opponent, and how good your footwork is. If you fight from a side stance, it would help to use what was called a California Blitz, a popular tournament footwork from the 70's. It seems like it was made for counter fighters and spin kickers. When you fight a better kicker, you need to take away his comfort level in kicking. I don't mean by hitting him, I mean controlling the distance between your front foot and his.

As a side note - if you have a good spinning hook kick, and throw it from a side stance, it's the greatest counter to a fast front foot roundhouse man has ever developed. It's like Christmas.

 

[Cyriacus]

In terms of Sport TKD (As in, in terms of striking), a Front Kick (I dont know what the KKW call the archetype im thinking of. So ill just generally say Front Kick) can exploit their lack of balance due to the nature of the strike, and push them off their supporting foot, allowing for a good followup.

 

[Grenadier]

Two methods that would fit with the Tae Kwon Do rules that favor kicking:

1) Stay just out of the reach of his spinning hook kick. After he throws it, rush in with a quick strike. In agreement with Cyriacus, I've found just a simple front kick to the exposed target is great as a counter, since you can really get a powerful drive going forward.

2) Intercept the kick before it can be completed. A spinning hook kick has a low margin of error, and if the kicker is too close to the target, it loses much of its effectiveness. Here again, a simple front kick can essentially "beat the guy to the draw," since it's faster, and by moving in, you can jam him. Your kick has a much better chance of striking solidly, whereas his kick will be jammed.

If you are in a competition that does not automatically disregard punches, then in either case you can easily use an advancing reverse punch, where you close the gap quickly, springing off the back foot. If anything, it's a much better way in situation 2), since you can follow this up with a sweep or throw.

 

[dancingalone]

If you're fast on a blitz, the best way to deal with a spinning hook is to jam the kicker. But this depends on the distance you like to keep from your opponent, and how good your footwork is. If you fight from a side stance, it would help to use what was called a California Blitz, a popular tournament footwork from the 70's. It seems like it was made for counter fighters and spin kickers. When you fight a better kicker, you need to take away his comfort level in kicking. I don't mean by hitting him, I mean controlling the distance between your front foot and his.

Would you mind summarizing what a California Blitz is for those of us not familiar with the term?

 

[Gorilla]

Is a cut kick a sidekick, or is there a slight difference?

Often debated...I believe a cut is a variation of a side kick probably best applied in sport.

 

[Instructor]

I would get in very close blend with his spinning motion grab on to him, unbalance and throw him. Not sure what that is worth in a tournament but it's an effective defense.

 

[Buka]

Would you mind summarizing what a California Blitz is for those of us not familiar with the term?

It's difficult with just words. It shouldn't be, because it's not too complicated. But if someone explained it to me in text, I'd probably discount it and say, "yeah, sure". And that would be a shame because is works really well in the right context and it's really fast.

But my buddy once shot a short video of just the feet in this move. I'll see if he can put in on youtube and I'll post it.
If not, I'll go over his house and have him shoot it again. Video and youtube are mysteries to me.

I promise I'll get back to you on this.

 

[Manny]

Against a good, fast hook kicker I've found that I have to be 1) almost out of range of their kick in the first place, and 2) bloody quick on the draw or already have my knee up prepared, to deliver the cut kick in time to stymie their kick.

I've always preferred the (admittedly less modern) bada-chagi, the underkick, because it actually begins at the range where you would be kicked, in a normal fighting stance, and doesn't require lightning reflexes. From closed stance, as the hook kick is launched, lean away slightly and throw a long counter bichagi under their kicking leg onto the front of the hogu. This technique does leave one vulnerable to the fake hook kick/hook kick combination though, as they can catch you as you regain your normal stance after the fake. Not bad if you're aware of that though, and add a slide-back evasion after your counter.

This is the the counter I use for the spining hook kick too, just lean away to protect my face and perform a peet-chagui to the hogu, offcourse there are certain risk of been out of timing and be caught by the spining hook kick but this is the way I was taught several years ago to counter tgis plashy kick.

Manny

 

[Gnarlie]

Often debated...I believe a cut is a variation of a side kick probably best applied in sport.

Exactly, a cut kick is a 50/50 hybrid between pushy front kick (Milyo / Ap Chagi) and side kick (Yeop Chagi). It has the action of side kick, but with the shin and foot making approximately a 45 degree angle with the ground, instead of being parallel with the ground as in a sidekick. It's a kick designed purely for jamming kicks and unbalancing, and can be applied quickly and effectively to block an opponents leg before continuing on it's way to the hogu. It's not a finesse technique, it's a do what works technique. Essentially lift the knee and shove the foot towards the opponent as fast as possible, cutting them off.

 

[Archtkd]

Exactly, a cut kick is a 50/50 hybrid between pushy front kick (Milyo / Ap Chagi) and side kick (Yeop Chagi). It has the action of side kick, but with the shin and foot making approximately a 45 degree angle with the ground, instead of being parallel with the ground as in a sidekick. It's a kick designed purely for jamming kicks and unbalancing, and can be applied quickly and effectively to block an opponents leg before continuing on it's way to the hogu. It's not a finesse technique, it's a do what works technique. Essentially lift the knee and shove the foot towards the opponent as fast as possible, cutting them off.

We also call this kick a "stopper," and have found if you don't use it very fast to block an opponent's leg on the way to hitting the hogu, you end up infringing on the Lopez rule, which bars one from blocking an oppents kick by raising the knee. You can go around the rule by using it while "surfing" -- sliding while pumping a raised leg.

The ITF folk, by the way also have mean spinning hook kicks, which sometimes tend not to have as much whip and arc as those of many Kukkiwon stylists, but are never the less very effective and accurate. What do the ITF folk use to counter hook kick in point sparring?

 

[ATC]

All should understand that the spinning hook (or as we like to call it, the back spinning kick) is by default a defensive or counter kick to the round house kick. To attack with it makes it an easy kick to counter. It is when the kick is use as it is intended, countering, that it becomes dangerous and hard to counter, as you would be trying to counter a counter kick.

Now with that said one way to attack with the spin hook kick is to add a step first or a roundhouse kick in front of the spin hook. This would force your opponent to counter the step or the round kick leaving your second move or kick of the spin hook as a natural counter to their counter. Now you don't have to step or round kick to force them to kick you, you simply need to have a type of movement to force a round house or step in by your opponent. There are many way to setup the kick but in the end it is a kick best used as a counter not an attack by itself.

This is why the kick is so hard to counter and can be used effectivly by good fighters that understand the kick. This is also why the side or front cut/push kick is an effect counter. The round kick can simply be redirected or altered in motion to push not strike, and simply move the opponent aleady in motion off his axis making the spin kick miss and sending the opponent off balance and most likely falling down. If you continue with the round kick you may strike the body at the same time you are being struck in the head and although and even exchange of kicks happended, the spin hook would be the winning kick as it is more devastating than the simple round kick to the body. Any round kick to the head would simply miss as the natural position of the spin hook moves the head out of range of the round kick.

Not sure if I put the words down on the screen correctly or not, Hope I made some sort of sense.