Signs your Ninja training might be questionable at best

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
Well first off Ninjutsu is a 20th Century term and certainly not a budo lineage contrary to any assertion or assumption. Koga is a medieval term designating a Japanese region and Yamabushi is an indigenous people within that region I never made such a claim other than it is a Ryu (flows from) root source. The Tanaka line remains unbroken and one soke still teaching its Koryu ways is Emikio Tanaka ho resides in Japan and has a prominent school. The argument Gendai remains purer is that to be Gendai one has to keep evolving and modern evolution of ways of the ninja is in compliance with guiding philosophy preached by its ancient predecesors
Well Frank the Kanji 忍者 also has kun reading as well as the Hanzi used in China :D. Interesting since there are Koryu schools that have Ninjutsu in their curriculm.
Ok Koga is an area, though correctly said as Koka, Yamabushi is a religious sect who in history may have had a small influence on ninjutsu, However there is no support that there is any Yamabushi sects that were called Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu, did something refered to as Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu, further more into the 20th century, it is highly doubtful that anyone who is practicing Shugendo has much information or martial application pertaining to ninjutsu. In most situations when naming a ryuha it has a person's name rather than something as odd as Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu. All I could find on an Tanaka Emikio is she lives in Nagasaki but there are quite a lot of people with that name so who knows. If it is prominent as you say, then in Koryu circles it should be well known as that is what prominent means:rolleyes:.

Well in Koryu the forms may not be changing however, Koryu does Goshinjutsu techniques that can be applied in modern times.

 

Frank Dux

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
Well Frank the Kanji 忍者 also has kun reading as well as the Hanzi used in China :D. Interesting since there are Koryu schools that have Ninjutsu in their curriculm.
Ok Koga is an area, though correctly said as Koka, Yamabushi is a religious sect who in history may have had a small influence on ninjutsu, However there is no support that there is any Yamabushi sects that were called Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu, did something refered to as Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu, further more into the 20th century, it is highly doubtful that anyone who is practicing Shugendo has much information or martial application pertaining to ninjutsu. In most situations when naming a ryuha it has a person's name rather than something as odd as Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu. All I could find on an Tanaka Emikio is she lives in Nagasaki but there are quite a lot of people with that name so who knows. If it is prominent as you say, then in Koryu circles it should be well known as that is what prominent means:rolleyes:.

Well in Koryu the forms may not be changing however, Koryu does Goshinjutsu techniques that can be applied in modern times.

I think we are splitting hairs here...
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
The blog is not credible. Don Roley is not a credible source. He has a penchant for mischaracterizing statements out of context and attributing statements to me I never made in order to further his trade libel of myself and others for his own financial benefit.
1. Don Roley is fluent in Japanese and has lived in Japan
2.Don Roley has studied with the Bujinkan in Japan for a good while has translated books especially on Koga Ninjutsu the very art you claim.
The folks at koryu.com are not interested in ninjutsu things or debating on forums. Mr. Roley has most likely put in the most research or perhaps Roy Ron.
If we are going to debate about Ninjutsu and Japan then someone who has extensive knowledge on the subject and can speak and read the language would be the better choice.
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
I think we are splitting hairs here...
Well no actually, you are saying there exist a Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu ryuha I am saying it is not possible because it is not how Japanese name things. It just sounds way to odd. Understand that Yamabushi is a religious sect it has very little connection to ninjutsu and into the 20th century even less connection.
Is it possible that some point in time a Yamabushi may have spied or influenced, helped or whatever in those regions sure, but as a ryuha no.
 

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
1,419
@Encho
i just noticed your avatar. i believe it is Zotoichi, correct? i really liked Shintaro Katsu.
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44

Attachments

  • IMG_20171121_063234_769.jpg
    IMG_20171121_063234_769.jpg
    574.2 KB · Views: 356

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
1,419
Menkiyo Kaidden is reserved for schools of Budo. Ninjutsu is not Budo but historically exists only as an add-on curriculum to a school of Budo. Someone tells you they have a Menkiyo in Ninjutsu and not the line of succession is a red flag of ignorance which you display here.

So stop making **** up as your ignorance and words indicate further you aren't part of that SOF community. You have no authority to speak for them or put out a bunch of nonsense, like no SpecWar CFC manuals exist. My name appears in the US Navy SEAL Specwar manual (K43-0097) on pg. 10. I have citations for my service to my country from the House of Representatives and highest title to be awarded by a governor for my service to the country. What are your accolades that you think you can think of yourself my equal or worse pretend to be superior to the extent you are condescending and disrespectful. Is that how you were trained to think and act with others?

you know what ...i do think this is the real Frank now. to be honest i was kind of argumentative because i felt these posts were from an impostor just trolling to be annoying,so i was being annoying back. but at this point i do not think it is an impostor. i felt the real Frank Dux would have better things to do in life then make posts like these but i do not think an impostor would go through so much trouble to show these "evidence" posts.
so i apologize for that.
that being said, its rather sad that you spend your time arguing with people about things that do not really matter.
yeah yeah,, its your reputation. but i think you might find if you stop making a big deal out of everything that people really dont care about who you trained under or who you taught in the past.
i do not mean that as a slam but rather to point out that all i care about is learning something from these forums. most often we learn the most here, not from people trying to "teach us something" but from our own investigations into our own belief's and questioning ourselves. i do think it is sad that you have spent maybe the last 30 years arguing and trying to convince people of your authenticity. like i said in the beginning past accomplishments are really irrelevant. it is the content that people care about. look at someone like Rory Miller. who the heck is Rory Miller ? what has he done? he was a correctional officer just like the other 434 thousand officers. but his message is what people liked and connected with. so now he is a leading figure and well respected, what is so special about him? well nothing really. but i have paid good money to work with him.

i get it. back in the early 1980's accomplishments really meant something lots of people embellished because there was no way to refute their claims. but look at someone like Villari his entire chain collapsed to rubble. he is now a joke.
lots of people created their own system, many falsified a past for the sake of legitimacy. times have changed the internet has brought us into the information age. i created my own system, well created is not really the correct way of looking at it. i studied authentic systems but i added and subtracted to it, to the point where i felt it would be incorrect to call it anything but my own creation. i think this is a natural progression. but the key is i openly admit it and i aim to let what i do stand on its own accord and let people judge what i do by its own merits. and i allow people to judge me by my thoughts and ideas within these posts. but the fact that i trained with many authentic 10th degree Uechi- ryu masters or met the KyuDo teacher to the Emperor of Japan or any of my other accomplishments mean nothing and in fact just get in the way of being an authentic human being.
Shunryu Suzuki was a great example for me. he said "the past does not exist, all that exists it today" he didnt like to talk about his past, because it no longer exists. its just a burden to be carried by some.
for you Frank, i know what i say will not matter to you. you will continue on your Journey the same as you have done for decades. i will leave you to it.
 

Frank Dux

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
Well no actually, you are saying there exist a Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu ryuha I am saying it is not possible because it is not how Japanese name things. It just sounds way to odd. Understand that Yamabushi is a religious sect it has very little connection to ninjutsu and into the 20th century even less connection.
Is it possible that some point in time a Yamabushi may have spied or influenced, helped or whatever in those regions sure, but as a ryuha no.

I never said there was an ancient Koga Yamabushi Ryu teaching Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu is NOT A MARTIAL ART but a 20th Century umbrella word. Even Hatsumi in his earliest writings makes reference to the Yamabushi. But I suppose you know better than him?
 

Frank Dux

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
1. Don Roley is fluent in Japanese and has lived in Japan
2.Don Roley has studied with the Bujinkan in Japan for a good while has translated books especially on Koga Ninjutsu the very art you claim.
The folks at koryu.com are not interested in ninjutsu things or debating on forums. Mr. Roley has most likely put in the most research or perhaps Roy Ron.
If we are going to debate about Ninjutsu and Japan then someone who has extensive knowledge on the subject and can speak and read the language would be the better choice.

Sorry I choose to listen to independently accredited scholars who don't have any financial stake in the outcome of the research. Their findings are clear and based on forensic history not folktales.
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
I never said there was an ancient Koga Yamabushi Ryu teaching Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu is NOT A MARTIAL ART but a 20th Century umbrella word. Even Hatsumi in his earliest writings makes reference to the Yamabushi. But I suppose you know better than him?
"While once rooted in traditional Koga Yamabushi Ninjitsu and the Martial Sciences"-http://duxryusystems.com/
From one of your sites and a quick google search comes up with your name claiming it. Making a reference and claiming your art comes from are 2 different things.
I am not convienced that the kun reading of Ninjutsu was not used throughout history.
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
Sorry I choose to listen to independently accredited scholars who don't have any financial stake in the outcome of the research. Their findings are clear and based on forensic history not folktales.
Sure what accredited scholar who reads and speaks Japanese and studies ninjutsu would be higher than Don Roley? How about Roy Ron he has also done some translating on Ninja related texts. My only interest Frank is in the claim of a Koga Yamabushi ninjutsu. It is actually pretty funny that this very conversation happen back in 2009 on Martial talk. Koryukai
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
"Koga is a medieval term designating a Japanese region and Yamabushi is an indigenous people within that region I never made such a claim other than it is a Ryu (flows from) root source"-Frank Dux
"I never said there was an ancient Koga Yamabushi Ryu teaching Ninjutsu"-Frank Dux


Frank Dux is Sōke(宗家), a Japanese title meaning "head of the family," who may grant his own Menkyo kaiden-http://officialfrankdux.com/separating-fact-vs-fiction/#_ftn53
"Someone tells you they have a Menkiyo in Ninjutsu and not the line of succession is a red flag of ignorance which you display here."-Frank Dux




 

Grenadier

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
10,826
Reaction score
616
Admin's Note:

Folks, I'm going to remind y'all that discussions on this forum are to be kept civil.

We do tolerate some heat, but outright flames are forbidden, and will "earn" you some warning points that can lead to the suspension or banning of your account.

-G
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
31,273
Reaction score
5,541
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Yes I have a Facebook page. I dont understand the other two questions

@Frank Dux

I will only ask this one more time and if I get an answer I appreciate it, if I do not I consider that an answer as well

There is a contact form on it that people can access and they send you a message with their e-mail address.... do you ever look at that and or respond to it?
 

hoshin1600

Senior Master
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
1,419
Yamabushi is an indigenous people
actually the only indigenous people on Japan are the Ainu way up north. you know those round eyed Native american looking people that were pushed to the uninhabitable areas of Hokkaido. yeah the Japanese dont like to talk about them to much. they are the Japanese version of America's Indians.
Ainu people - Wikipedia
 

Encho

Green Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
165
Reaction score
44
actually the only indigenous people on Japan are the Ainu way up north. you know those round eyed Native american looking people that were pushed to the uninhabitable areas of Hokkaido. yeah the Japanese dont like to talk about them to much. they are the Japanese version of America's Indians.
Ainu people - Wikipedia
Ya sorry that was part of Frank's post that I accidentally quoted. I'm not good at quote function.
 

Frank Dux

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
"While once rooted in traditional Koga Yamabushi Ninjitsu and the Martial Sciences"-http://duxryusystems.com/
From one of your sites and a quick google search comes up with your name claiming it. Making a reference and claiming your art comes from are 2 different things.
I am not convienced that the kun reading of Ninjutsu was not used throughout history.

Not my website... I don't control or manage it... nor is it inaccurate depending upon your interpretation as it says "rooted in..."
 

Frank Dux

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
47
Reaction score
2
@Frank Dux

I will only ask this one more time and if I get an answer I appreciate it, if I do not I consider that an answer as well

There is a contact form on it that people can access and they send you a message with their e-mail address.... do you ever look at that and or respond to it?

I don't recall seeing it and must have either gone through it to quickly or never open it. However, one member did find me on Facebook and I confirmed my identity.
 

Latest Discussions

Top