Should I take a break?

[Live True]

I'm feeling very torn right now, and a bit upset and confused. I'm hoping the folks here can help me get some perspective.

I have an (I hope) odd situation in my dojo that involves some personal crap my sensei is going through involving a possible divorce and mental manipulation of the kids. It also involves, from my perspective, a co-dependent relationship developed with another one of the students that made myself and several other students uncomfortable. We've lost a teacher and some students over this.

My conflict lies here...I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom. Sometimes, when I show up, I'm the only one there, and sometimes my sensei shows up 30 minutes or so late. I'm often the only student there. When my sensei shows, I get very good instruction and learn things about breaking down a technique or kata that are amazing. I also feel like I get a great workout, and leave with that happy/tired/sore/calm feeling.

But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class. It's not my karate, as I'm still loving that, and practicing it on my own several days a week. I also moderate a forum related to my art and maintain a webpage. It's just...it's hard to get enthused when you aren't sure if your teacher will be there, both physically and mentally. I also just don't want the extra drama in my life. (kinda selfish, hunh?)

I know my sensei's human, and I feel like I should be supportive and patient. One of our senior students is thinking of starting a private training group, and I would love to train with this student as we connect well and I feel pushed in all the right ways.

I'm trying to decide if I should just step back and practice on my own for a month or so...if I should look for a new teacher...or if I should let this keep going until something significant changes one way or another.

I feel disloyal and dissapointed at the thought of leaving. Does this make sense?

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm feeling very torn right now, and a bit upset and confused. I'm hoping the folks here can help me get some perspective.

I have an (I hope) odd situation in my dojo that involves some personal crap my sensei is going through involving a possible divorce and mental manipulation of the kids. It also involves, from my perspective, a co-dependent relationship developed with another one of the students that made myself and several other students uncomfortable. We've lost a teacher and some students over this.

My conflict lies here...I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom. Sometimes, when I show up, I'm the only one there, and sometimes my sensei shows up 30 minutes or so late. I'm often the only student there. When my sensei shows, I get very good instruction and learn things about breaking down a technique or kata that are amazing. I also feel like I get a great workout, and leave with that happy/tired/sore/calm feeling.

But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class. It's not my karate, as I'm still loving that, and practicing it on my own several days a week. I also moderate a forum related to my art and maintain a webpage. It's just...it's hard to get enthused when you aren't sure if your teacher will be there, both physically and mentally. I also just don't want the extra drama in my life. (kinda selfish, hunh?)

I know my sensei's human, and I feel like I should be supportive and patient. One of our senior students is thinking of starting a private training group, and I would love to train with this student as we connect well and I feel pushed in all the right ways.

I'm trying to decide if I should just step back and practice on my own for a month or so...if I should look for a new teacher...or if I should let this keep going until something significant changes one way or another.

I feel disloyal and dissapointed at the thought of leaving. Does this make sense?

It sounds very much like outside issues for your instructor is having a major impact on your training. So much so that it has become an emotional stressor for you (perhaps others as well). Do I have that right so far?

Taking on a friend's emotional issues because you want to help is one thing. However, it doesn't sound as if you have that type of relationship with your instructor. You train as a release & to learn, it sounds like that is not happening much now. Or, as much as one would expect.

As the sole instructor in my school, I'm aware that when I close the school, even for sickness, it can affect the way my students see their training.

Perhaps you could connect with the senior student for outside training (as you mentioned). Maybe that would be a way to stay connected to training without being in the middle of the things your instructor is going through.

my .02 cents

 

[Ken Morgan]

If this senior student wants to start a study group outside of the dojo, why not inside the dojo?

I almost feel like your sensei needs your, (all his students), support to help him ride this out. I’m sure there is a great deal more to the story, but it would be a shame to abandon your sensei during a tough personal time for him. A heart to heart discussion is definitely needed.

I hope I haven’t been talking out of my ***!! Not a lecture and I’d be surprised if you haven’t already considered the above strategies.

 

[seasoned]

I'm feeling very torn right now, and a bit upset and confused. I'm hoping the folks here can help me get some perspective.

I have an (I hope) odd situation in my dojo that involves some personal crap my sensei is going through involving a possible divorce and mental manipulation of the kids. It also involves, from my perspective, a co-dependent relationship developed with another one of the students that made myself and several other students uncomfortable. We've lost a teacher and some students over this.

My conflict lies here...I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom. Sometimes, when I show up, I'm the only one there, and sometimes my sensei shows up 30 minutes or so late. I'm often the only student there. When my sensei shows, I get very good instruction and learn things about breaking down a technique or kata that are amazing. I also feel like I get a great workout, and leave with that happy/tired/sore/calm feeling.

But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class. It's not my karate, as I'm still loving that, and practicing it on my own several days a week. I also moderate a forum related to my art and maintain a webpage. It's just...it's hard to get enthused when you aren't sure if your teacher will be there, both physically and mentally. I also just don't want the extra drama in my life. (kinda selfish, hunh?)

I know my sensei's human, and I feel like I should be supportive and patient. One of our senior students is thinking of starting a private training group, and I would love to train with this student as we connect well and I feel pushed in all the right ways.

I'm trying to decide if I should just step back and practice on my own for a month or so...if I should look for a new teacher...or if I should let this keep going until something significant changes one way or another.

I feel disloyal and dissapointed at the thought of leaving. Does this make sense?

I don't think I would cut off contact with your current Sensei, but a break may be warranted for now. It sounds like he needs to reevaluate things in his own mind also. It probably won't hurt to run this by him and get his reaction. It may be just the nudge he needs to bring things around. If not, and he is acceptant toward your concerns, then take that month off on your own, and slowly move toward the senior student and the private classes. I am not one for burning bridges, so slow and easy does it, and see how it plays out.

 

[Live True]

It sounds very much like outside issues for your instructor is having a major impact on your training. So much so that it has become an emotional stressor for you (perhaps others as well). Do I have that right so far?

Taking on a friend's emotional issues because you want to help is one thing. However, it doesn't sound as if you have that type of relationship with your instructor. You train as a release & to learn, it sounds like that is not happening much now. Or, as much as one would expect.

As the sole instructor in my school, I'm aware that when I close the school, even for sickness, it can affect the way my students see their training.

Perhaps you could connect with the senior student for outside training (as you mentioned). Maybe that would be a way to stay connected to training without being in the middle of the things your instructor is going through.

my .02 cents

You summed it up nicely Iceman, and I have a freindly relationship with my sensei, but not a close personal one. We've talked some about his situation, as we train, but I don't want to be pushy or intrude into a tense and painful subject. I've simply let him know I'm there if he needs to talk, and allow him to put that aside while he trains...the training is a release and relief for him, when he shows up.

If this senior student wants to start a study group outside of the dojo, why not inside the dojo?

I almost feel like your sensei needs your, (all his students), support to help him ride this out. I’m sure there is a great deal more to the story, but it would be a shame to abandon your sensei during a tough personal time for him. A heart to heart discussion is definitely needed.

I hope I haven’t been talking out of my ***!! Not a lecture and I’d be surprised if you haven’t already considered the above strategies.

No offense taken Ken, that's why I asked the question! I want honest thoughts and feedback, otherwise, why bother? I actually appreciate your comments and didn't take it as a lecture!

Actually, the senior student has been increasingly taking on my sensei's teaching load, but the same student is also cross training in another art, so time is limited. The student talked to the sensei about teaching a small focused group within the dojo structure, and it was put off as as "I'll think about that later".

To expand on my note above, most of us have tried to talk to him about the situation in a one on one manner, with little impact or response. None of us want to be an additional strain on him during an already difficult time...and his family should be more important than the dojo. He does this as more of a hobby and secondary part of his life, now, and this is not a business for him.

That's one of the reasons I said I was thinking of stepping back for a month or three....at the same time continuing to support the school's website and stay involved and training. I do feel kinda guilty as I'm one of 2-3 students that are still training with him right now, but there is a part of me that thinks this would help him focus on his family and resolve those issues....and another part that feels like I'm helping to take away his one oasis of relief....

like I said, I'm torn....and it's complicated...

 

[Live True]

I don't think I would cut off contact with your current Sensei, but a break may be warranted for now. It sounds like he needs to reevaluate things in his own mind also. It probably won't hurt to run this by him and get his reaction. It may be just the nudge he needs to bring things around. If not, and he is acceptant toward your concerns, then take that month off on your own, and slowly move toward the senior student and the private classes. I am not one for burning bridges, so slow and easy does it, and see how it plays out.

Was never considering burning bridges, as I realize he has a lot going on, and I do not expect "superman" of my teachers. I like the idea of talking to him and then taking some time off on my own and going from there....thanks Seasoned!

 

[Jenna]

Hey Shana I worry that the one person you are not considering here is yourself! I have been in a startlingly similar situation with an old KF sifu I used to have. Because he had become more than just a teacher to us; a friend and a wonderfully sincere man, we felt a terrible sadness when things went awry with our little club. We were no ship-jumpers any more than our old sifu was a deserter - personal circumstances affect us all. And but my only point is that the difficult choice sometimes is moving on *for our own sake* versus holding our breath while the ship goes under? If your enthusiasm for attending class is waning then how far behind is demoralisation? Could you take time for some personal training instead? Attend one or two other local classes as the honoured visitor maybe? I am sure you have options Shana, yes? I know how considerate you are my friend and but please put yourself and your own studying and happiness in that mix too?? When the steam dissipates, then have a peak back in through your regular class window and hopefully things will have returned to normal, and but if not, then you can have prepared the next stage of your martial journey ahead of time I hope it all works out for you. Take care
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Big Don]

Regardless of what has or hasn't been going on, every time I've taken a break, it has been a mistake. Talk it out with your instructor.

 

[Nomad]

Have you tried letting your instructor know the effect this outside stress is having on you (and likely the other students)? This could be done in a fairly delicate manner, but I know sometimes that people get so caught up in their own thing that they don't realize the impact it has on the people around them, and especially on the people that rely on them.

There are multiple solutions that could be found, including the instructor having one or more of the senior students "in charge" of the class for awhile, running the class on a day to day basis in case he can't make it to class, or can only arrive later. This way, when he does come in to the class to teach, it becomes a treat for the class, rather than a feeling of "finally!" This may in turn serve to relieve some of his stress during what sounds like a pretty tumultuous time.

 

[Live True]

I'll have to reply to all who posted later,but thank you for your comments! Many good things to consider, and please know that I and several students have talked to him, and offered our support. I am trying to be supportive to him, but also recognize my needs as well...trying to find balance...more later...thank you all for your thoughts

 

[grydth]

If I read these posts accurately, it appears that the dojo is already collapsing on its own... if only two or three students are left, after a group departed, please consider that the dojo may not be there a month or three from now. There may be nothing to return to.

While none of this is in any way your fault, perhaps the circumstances here give you a guide.

Were you to simply leave on a polite excuse, the place might fold. This could open a breach between you and the sensei, "Great, now she leaves me, just when things are worst!"

You have no obligation to attend classes which are not fruitful, or where the stress outweighs the benefits. But I agree with those who have advised that it is time for a frank and honest discussion. Remember - these often bring people closer! Even if all fails, you have done right by your sensei, your fellow students, and yourself.

 

[K-man]

My conflict lies here...I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom. Sometimes, when I show up, I'm the only one there, and sometimes my sensei shows up 30 minutes or so late. I'm often the only student there.

But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class. It's not my karate, as I'm still loving that, and practicing it on my own several days a week. I also just don't want the extra drama in my life. (kinda selfish, hunh?)

In everything there is a reality test. My test is 'Am I enjoying this, is my training fun?'
The day I answer 'no' to either part of the question I will be out and looking for something else.
Back in the late 80s we had big time politics in our martial arts in Aus. I ended up leaving and taking a break. At times I regretted my decision but eventually I came back and am now really enjoying the training.

In your situation there are three issues.
The first is the class size. I don't have a problem with small numbers or even one-on-one. We actually started our school so three mates could train. Any more is 'bonus'. My first school years ago had three students. However, especially with small numbers, it is important that people communicate if they are not available or will be late.
Second issue. You say "I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom." That makes it hard for everyone. If sometimes when you show up you are the only one there, are there other times when you didn't go that no-one was there? This makes it hard for your sensei to be motivated.
Third issue, my reality check. "Am I having fun?" You say "But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class."
I think you may have answered your own question.
I say, as grydth suggested, get everyone together after training, maybe over a pizza, and see if you can work it out so everyone is accomodated. If the issues can't be resolved, take a break, look around and come back in a few months, refreshed and hungry for more. :asian:

 

[Twin Fist]

everytime i have taken a break, i too have regretted it

 

[Gordon Nore]

One thing struck me about your post -- your time to train is limited. When you get there, your teacher isn't always available or is late. A lot of other things you can elect to tune out, but in that respect, your needs are not being met. At the very least, given that you are a new parent, I suspect you want your training to be a release from stress. Doesn't sound like it is at the moment.

 

[Live True]

Hey Shana I worry that the one person you are not considering here is yourself![...] If your enthusiasm for attending class is waning then how far behind is demoralisation? Could you take time for some personal training instead? Attend one or two other local classes as the honoured visitor maybe?

Ah Jenna, always a pleasure to hear your voice....thanks for the reminder to keep myself in the equation too.

Regardless of what has or hasn't been going on, every time I've taken a break, it has been a mistake. Talk it out with your instructor.

everytime i have taken a break, i too have regretted it

Don and Twin First, thanks for the warning. I really don't want to stop training altogether, I've just been trying to decide if I should take a break from my dojo and sensei.

Have you tried letting your instructor know the effect this outside stress is having on you (and likely the other students)? [...]There are multiple solutions that could be found, including the instructor having one or more of the senior students "in charge" of the class for awhile, running the class on a day to day basis in case he can't make it to class, or can only arrive later. This way, when he does come in to the class to teach, it becomes a treat for the class, rather than a feeling of "finally!" This may in turn serve to relieve some of his stress during what sounds like a pretty tumultuous time.

Nomad, I often enjoy reading your point of view! We students have discussed this with him individually, but I don't think it has made an impact...likely because he has so much going on right now. Also, it is understood that the senior student present begins/teaches class if he doesn't show. But when I, a junior level student, am the only one there, I do run kata and practice on my own. It's just that I have limited training time, and want to make the most of it. That said, I like the concept behind your thoughts, and think I will consider combining them with some of the advise below. Thanks!

If I read these posts accurately, it appears that the dojo is already collapsing on its own... [...]Were you to simply leave on a polite excuse, the place might fold. This could open a breach between you and the sensei, "Great, now she leaves me, just when things are worst!"

You have no obligation to attend classes which are not fruitful, or where the stress outweighs the benefits. But I agree with those who have advised that it is time for a frank and honest discussion. Remember - these often bring people closer! Even if all fails, you have done right by your sensei, your fellow students, and yourself.

Thanks Grydth for the really good points. I do not wish to make things tougher/worse for my sensei OR burn any bridges. I would LOVE to continue training with him, as I learn so much and he is really good at breaking things down and putting them back together. He is also a good man simply going through some very rough times. No matter what, divorce just sucks.

[...]The first is the class size. I don't have a problem with small numbers or even one-on-one. [...]However, especially with small numbers, it is important that people communicate if they are not available or will be late.
Second issue. You say "I can only show up to limited practices right now because I'm a new mom." That makes it hard for everyone. If sometimes when you show up you are the only one there, are there other times when you didn't go that no-one was there? This makes it hard for your sensei to be motivated.
Third issue, my reality check. "Am I having fun?" You say "But i'm finding it VERY hard to get excited about class these days. It's unusual for me to feel like I have to drag myself to class."
I think you may have answered your own question.
I say, as grydth suggested, get everyone together after training, maybe over a pizza, and see if you can work it out so everyone is accomodated. If the issues can't be resolved, take a break, look around and come back in a few months, refreshed and hungry for more. :asian:

K-man...thank you for a great idea that I'm surprised didn't occur to me! Hashing it out over a meal is a great way to try and accomodate everyone's needs in a non-confrontational setting and keep the lines of communication open and clear. Also, thanks for the reality check that sometimes he may show up and no one be there. I like the small group, as it means more one on one focus, but I hadn't thought of when I don't show up and he might be alone. duh-huh!

One thing struck me about your post -- your time to train is limited. When you get there, your teacher isn't always available or is late. A lot of other things you can elect to tune out, but in that respect, your needs are not being met. At the very least, given that you are a new parent, I suspect you want your training to be a release from stress. Doesn't sound like it is at the moment.

Gordon, you must be a parent yourself! It's not just a release, I have to go to a lot of arranging to get to class, and I drive an hour to get there...so yeah...that is certainly part of why this is so frustrating.

Thank you all, I think I will see if I can meet with my sensei over coffee or something, sometime soon. I appreciate the advice!

 

[Gordon Nore]

Gordon, you must be a parent yourself! It's not just a release, I have to go to a lot of arranging to get to class, and I drive an hour to get there...so yeah...that is certainly part of why this is so frustrating.

...of a nineteen-year-old -- which has unique stresses of its own. But, yes, I was using my parental voice. The point I was making is that the time you take for yourself -- away from your family -- should meet your needs.

 

[Live True]

...of a nineteen-year-old -- which has unique stresses of its own. But, yes, I was using my parental voice. The point I was making is that the time you take for yourself -- away from your family -- should meet your needs.

Which is why I will talk to my sensei as a point of compassion and honour, but I will move on if my needs are not met...with no ill will on my part, and hopefully none on his....but hopefully...we can find a way to work through this.

Thanks Gordon! My daughter is only 6 months old, and I looove being with her...but i think recharge time is essential!

 

[Live True]

Well, I asked my sensei for a meeting the day I posted that last note. We finally had our meeting yesterday, after multiple promises that he would make time to meet me. He then showed up late, because he had forgotten the meeting time (I called him).

We chatted about his family situation a bit, and then he listened to my concerns about no teacher/late teacher/lack of respect for his students. I emphasized that my training time is precious because it is so limited, with new baby and hour commute time. He then basically said that his time management and lack of interpersonal skills were known factors, went on to explain how certain examples I'd given were the fault of the other person involved, and that people simply needed to own thier own training and stand up to the challenge.

I, somewhat, agree with the last part, but I find myself deeply dissapointed in his total response. In our conversation, I mentioned that actions speak more loudly than words, and he agreed with me. Then he completely ignored and did not respond to the 2 examples regarding some instances where he had showed lack of respect and concern to me, direclty.

I agreed to come to class this Thursday, as I'm curious if anything will change, and I strongly believe in keeping my promises (I had promised another student I would be there that night). But, I think I have now seen that he is not be the right teacher for me.

In my mind, Respect must be a two way street, or it doesn't really lead anywhere. No matter how much knowledge this man has to share, can I really continue to learn from someone who treats his students as products and not people, and shows no remorse in doing so?

So, I plan on looking for another teacher and training on my own and individually with some of the upper students, who are freinds, privately.
Meanwhile, I'm really sad and more than a little frustrated.

 

[BLACK LION]

Are you paying money on his instruction??? Are you devoting time and energy to his training??? Are you seeking to learn as part of a class or network of students??? Do you learn more training one on one???

I think any training environment regardless of wether its combat or sport should be devoid of any sort of social pitfalls that are normally common in a workplace or college biology class.... the baggage should be at the door... period. There shouldnt be evident decension that is unrelated to the training at hand... relationships..family..employment..finances...religion...or what have you should all be irrelevant and non existant... there should be no he said she said bs especially... training is for training and there should be an ultimate mutual respect there otherwise the machine breaks down... its not aboutmaking friends or feeding the ego... its about building integrity.... training should be all about training and nothing else....


If it is to the point where you lack motivation... let your instructor know that you are going to take a solo journey for this reason and let him know how and why it reached that plateau... stay supportive but detached enough to notice if things change... if they do... great, back to work... if they dont... back to the drawing board... its your life... not thiers...


it sounds like you have done this and what you will see this week will only solidify what you already know so go see it thru and move on to better things... look at it as a progression to the next level and not as some sort of loss...

you are winning here...in many ways

 

[K-man]

When one door closes another opens. Take your time and look around. Remember, the important thing is the journey, not the destination. If you are not happy in your training you will never reach your potential. :asian: