Should a Black Belt begin a new art as a White Belt?

[fnorfurfoot]

I just started studying a new style of MA this week and the instructor told me to wear my black belt to the classes. I was expecting to start as a white belt and was kind of hoping that I would. The same thing happened when I started studying GoJu. The instructor told me that nobody could take away what I have already earned so he had me wear my black belt to his classes. When I was promoted in his style, I would recieve a colored chevron that I had to sew onto the sleeve of my gi.

At the time I had a problem with his reasoning. I may be a black belt in Kenpo, but I was just starting Goju. It felt wrong. When the class started or ended, I would have to line up at the white belt end of the room, but my belt visually outranked everyone else in the room accept the head instructor. Plus I felt like an idiot when brand new students would come to ask me questions and I would have to explain that I was new too.

My new instructor explained his reasoning a little better. He doesn't really have a plan for me to promote through his system like a regular white belt would. His system is close enough to what I already do that he feels like I am going to run through it rather quickly. I just need to learn the particulars of his system. So instead of having his white and yellow belt students wonder why I was working with blue belts when I was just with them a couple of weeks before, I should keep my current rank and then he can pair me up with whoever he wants at the time without causing confusion.

I was wondering what everone's thoughts were on this.

 

[Touch Of Death]

No, I have fantasies of doing the same thing, but lets be realistic; you are a black-belt. "You wear it well" Rod Stewart
Sean

 

[Carol]

I think it's the instructor's decision.

I would have an issue with a black belt demanding to start a new art at someplace other than white but that isn't your case, Fnorfurfoot.

It is his school and you are his student. He's not only expressed his wishes but he has reasons behind them as well. I think it's fair that his wishes are respected.

 

[grydth]

I agree with the thread author..... I have personally seen two martial artists I respect highly, one a 4th dan and one a senior brown belt, both start new arts as white belts.

It is a dose of humility, and shows a willingness to have a fresh start that we all could learn from.

 

[Tames D]

I think you should start the new style/system as a white belt. You should be able to blow right through each rank. And this way earn the respect of your fellow students.

 

[exile]

I think, myself, I'd rather start as a white belt. It would be a good symbolic reminder to me not to mindlessly transfer techniques that I'm familiar with to the new art. Even if they only diverge by 20% in technical content, say, I would rather start from the premise that every tech is different and I'm going to learn it as it's properly done in that new art.

If the tech I'm learning and the tech I already know happen to be congruent, great!—that's a freebie. But I'd rather start from the opposite assumption, that things are going to be quite different; that way, I won't blur what significant distinctions there are between the art I'm newly learning and the art I've been practicing for a long time... and that white belt and the regular series of tests and belt-by-belt advancements would, I think, help me keep focused on that learning strategy.

 

[Tames D]

Better to be a bad *** white belt than an embarrassed black belt.

 

[tradrockrat]

It should be up to the instructor in my humble opinion. As a supposed learned student of the arts we should trust that the instructor knows best for his school. And we shold be equally happy to wear a white belt as a black because we're there to learn, not put on a fashion show, right?

again, jmho.

 

[jdinca]

I can understand your point of view and I can also understand your instructor's point of view. Your BB is in a different system and you're right in your feelings about starting out as a white belt in the current system. As for your instructor, he doesn't plan on teaching you as he would a "normal" new student. You won't be a white belt for long and will probably advance to an advanced level fairly quickly. Go with it, see what happens.

 

[Kacey]

If I started a new art, I would much rather start as a white belt and work my way up like everyone else.

As an instructor, if someone who held a BB in a different art wanted to take my class, I would, generally, start them at white belt. The only exception would be for a very similar style - say, if someone from a WTF class transferred into my ITF-style school, in which case they would have to learn our tuls (patterns), techniques and technical details before they could test. It's entirely possible that a BB in another style would be one of those rare students who is allowed to advance faster than the normal sequence, because they would (one hopes) have better control over how they move, and (one hopes) a greater understanding of MA and body mechanics in general - but they'd still start as white belts.

 

[Adept]

Personally, I think belts are an un-necessary artifice designed to give students short-term goals.

Having said that, a competent black belt in one style will have many of the skills and abilities of most arts down pat. A kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, after all, so it wouldn't make sense to start you off as a white belt.

 

[MBuzzy]

I think it is completely the instructor's choice. I'm anxious just about going to a different school in the SAME art and having my rank transfer, because I know that there is a vast difference in standards and techniques.

In the end, trust the instructor.

 

[14 Kempo]

It is the instructor's decision, however, I have a point of view. I was at Nidan and switched styles, to a very similar style ... both SKK. After a preliminary workout, one-on-one with the instructor, I was given the choice to wear my rank. I chose to start at white. My first test in the new style, 5-months in, was from white to green belt, but during that period of time I was able to attend both beginner and advanced classes and prove myself to the student population and therefore had thier respect. I tested for green-stripe the very next week at corporate.

My thoughts on black belt may differ from others, but here goes ... at black belt the real training begins. Up until that time, a person is working primarily basics. A black belt symbolizes that a person is pretty darned good at the basics of the arts. With this line of thinking, can it not then be said that basics are basics, a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick. Some styles may have different names for certain strikes, such as thrust punch and vertical punch, same thing, different art. But all in all, a black belt is a black belt.

There are black belts of certain arts that have come into my dojo and we've stood toe-to-toe as BBs and had some pretty good sparring sessions, some I won, some I lost. But it goes to prove that a BB is a BB no matter what the style.

Now having said all that, and I'm sure some of the thoughts may be controversial, or at least outside the thinking of others ... given the choice, I would still choose to wear white. I don't care about rank, as far as I'm concerned whether I'm wearing a black belt or a brown leather belt from K-Mart, I know what I know and I can do what I can do. I like the innocence of it all. I like the excitement that comes with the white rank, I'm new, it's a fresh start, rejuvenating.

 

[Shaderon]

I think you have to trust your instructor. I can see both points of view, but in my eyes, in order to learn from someone in a MA, you have to have trust in that person and I feel it goes as far as trusting them to tell you what belt to wear. They will have their reasons, possibly some they haven't explained due to class politics which will become evident, or it could be just the simple basics thing, whatever it is, you just gotta trust him.

 

[LawDog]

My point of view is a belt rank, in part, is ability. When a black belt from another system joins my school I have him/her wear an unranked black belt. They still have to learn the system from white belt on up and are tested for each level.
If the transfere student wore a white belt he will still have the ability of a black belt. Most students will compair their ability to another students ability. They may know that he is a black belt but they still see a colored belt in front of them. It is better for all to see the B.B. and know that they are dealing with a person who is very skilled.
Ranking is ability, it transcends a style/system.

 

[Drac]

I must agree with the others as far as it being the Sensei's, Sabum, Sifu etc..etc..choice..As for myself my first day on the floor its a white belt..

 

[terryl965]

I agree with Drac and the otherson this, It is nice to completly empty your cup when starting over

 

[MJS]

I just started studying a new style of MA this week and the instructor told me to wear my black belt to the classes. I was expecting to start as a white belt and was kind of hoping that I would. The same thing happened when I started studying GoJu. The instructor told me that nobody could take away what I have already earned so he had me wear my black belt to his classes. When I was promoted in his style, I would recieve a colored chevron that I had to sew onto the sleeve of my gi.

At the time I had a problem with his reasoning. I may be a black belt in Kenpo, but I was just starting Goju. It felt wrong. When the class started or ended, I would have to line up at the white belt end of the room, but my belt visually outranked everyone else in the room accept the head instructor. Plus I felt like an idiot when brand new students would come to ask me questions and I would have to explain that I was new too.

My new instructor explained his reasoning a little better. He doesn't really have a plan for me to promote through his system like a regular white belt would. His system is close enough to what I already do that he feels like I am going to run through it rather quickly. I just need to learn the particulars of his system. So instead of having his white and yellow belt students wonder why I was working with blue belts when I was just with them a couple of weeks before, I should keep my current rank and then he can pair me up with whoever he wants at the time without causing confusion.

I was wondering what everone's thoughts were on this.

I could see this going either way. A) Start fresh, new art, new belt (White) and join in the beginner class. Will you pick things up a bit quicker? Sure, although there may be a slight variation to the application of things. B) Wear the Black Belt, but still join the beginner class.

The Black Belt is already yours and nobody is taking it away. I recently switched versions of Kenpo. Parker to Tracy. 99% of the material is the same, although slight variations are present. I still wear my 3rd Black. Same art (Kenpo). The class is small and its open rank, so everyone is working on their material. At this time, I'm half way thru the Green Belt material. Like your inst. said to you, mine also is not promoting me like he would the other students. The "tests" are done during the private lesson that I take prior to the class. Its more of a review of the past and present material.

Your instructor seems like he has your best interests in mind. If you still have doubts, talk to him again.

Best of luck to you in your new art!:ultracool

Mike

 

[crushing]

I'm not sure I will add any value to what has already been said, but I'll throw in my $.01. It's not a full $.02 because I am not yet a black belt.

I can understand your concern. Personally, I would feel very uncomfortable not starting out as a white belt in a new martial art, indepedent of how similar it may be to another art in which I have been promoted.

I would not feel so uncomfortable though if my previous experience and training led to earning a black belt in another art also led to quicker promotions in the new art though. In fact, I think I have been experiencing that in the second art I picked up.

I don't think the belts are the the most important things, they are merely the milemarkers of your journey. Perhaps this is how the new teacher sees it, and sees this new endeavor as a continuation of your journey as a whole. With this in mind, I think his use of the color chevron to indicate your progress in his class is a good idea and would (for me if I were in your situation) help offset the uncomfortable nature of wearing the black belt.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I agree with Drac and the otherson this, It is nice to completly empty your cup when starting over

Absolutely. That mind set is the key to learning.