Instructors and Humility

hogstooth

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I am amazed how many different belts there are above black. My family and I went to visit relatives. My nephew has been studying Karate for 3 years and wanted me to meet his instructors. When I walked into his dojo I saw a man wearing a red belt and two other men wearing a red/white belts. They were all younger than me. I asked him his rank and his assistants ranks to which he replied 4th and 3rd Dans. I asked why he wore a red belt and his assistants wore red/white belts. He answered that a black belt just doesn't signify an instructors position or rank and they needed a way to make him and his assistants stand out among his black belt students.
Note; He was not a Hanshi and his assistants were not Kyoshi.
Were is the humility in instructors today? When did ego become the ultimate goal rather than teaching and passing on the art? I see it in magazines all the time. Why do Black Belts feel they need to wear a different belt or have a fancy title to stand out? Isn't it enough to have earned your rank? I am waiting for the new bill boards that get attached to the back of your gi's that say, "hey look at me I am so and so and I have a whatever color belt and that means I am the man, bow to my greatness".
When did a black belt get degraded to just another colored belt?
 

Steve

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Black belt's pretty arbitrary anyway. Isn't it? A red/black belt in BJJ = 100% badass. I don't know about other styles.

With the way that a black belt has come to mean very little, it's understandable to me that a knowledgeable instructor would need some way to distinguish him or herself. Add that different schools or styles are adding more and more interim belts in order to get the most out of testing fees and to give students more of a "sense of accomplishment" why not a "red is the new black" belt?

I've noticed that many styles put flair on their belt or uniform in some way, but is that really any different than just adding another color above black? Does it necessarily equate to a lack of humility? If that were the case, why all the rest of the obsequiousness that distinguishes the student from the teacher in the average school?
 

Flying Crane

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With the way that a black belt has come to mean very little, it's understandable to me that a knowledgeable instructor would need some way to distinguish him or herself.

Why not distinguish him or herself thru quality teaching? Why is a visible symbol needed, especially within a school where everyone ought to know who everyone else is?

And for those outside the school who don't know, what does it matter?
 

Flying Crane

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I am amazed how many different belts there are above black. My family and I went to visit relatives. My nephew has been studying Karate for 3 years and wanted me to meet his instructors. When I walked into his dojo I saw a man wearing a red belt and two other men wearing a red/white belts. They were all younger than me. I asked him his rank and his assistants ranks to which he replied 4th and 3rd Dans. I asked why he wore a red belt and his assistants wore red/white belts. He answered that a black belt just doesn't signify an instructors position or rank and they needed a way to make him and his assistants stand out among his black belt students.
Note; He was not a Hanshi and his assistants were not Kyoshi.
Were is the humility in instructors today? When did ego become the ultimate goal rather than teaching and passing on the art? I see it in magazines all the time. Why do Black Belts feel they need to wear a different belt or have a fancy title to stand out? Isn't it enough to have earned your rank? I am waiting for the new bill boards that get attached to the back of your gi's that say, "hey look at me I am so and so and I have a whatever color belt and that means I am the man, bow to my greatness".
When did a black belt get degraded to just another colored belt?


I believe a little historical context here may be appropriate.

The belt system was developed by Jigoro Kano, founder of Kodokan judo, sometime in the late 1800s/early 1900s, I believe. He didn't really develop a system of belt colors, so much as he developed a system of ranks, designated by Kyu vs Dan.

The first series of ranks, Kyu, came to be represented by colored belts, originally white and brown. Gradually, other colors, and more levels, of Kyu got worked into the system, as the system was adopted by other styles.

The second series of ranks, the Dan ranks, came to be represented usually by the black belt, and this level, starting with shodan (1st Dan), was sort of considered the first real grade level. The kyu levels were just sort of preliminaries. But the higher Dan grades, like somewhere around 6th and up, were represented by red/white belts, and red belts, and I believe even a full white belt twice as wide as the Kyu level white belt.

My point is, the color of the belt wasn't really originally the issue. Rather, the Dan grading was. Any color could have been designated for Dan grades, it just so happened that Black was chosen, but so were variations of red and white.

So really, anyone could decide to wear a different color at Dan grade. They would just be different from the norm. The confusion arises in Western countries, where we tend to think of "black belt", rather than "dan grade". Example: a high level person would be a 9th Dan (Kudan in Japanese) and might wear either a black belt or a belt with red and/or white on it. So to call someone a 9th degree black belt is not exactly accurate. Rather, this person would be a Kudan, or 9th Dan. But the terms and meanings have gotten a bit turned around in the West, so these things can get confused.

But at these higher levels of Dan grade, it can be considered normal and appropirate to wear a color other than black, altho to wear black at these levels also seems to be an accepted norm.

Getting back to what you are saying in your post, I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with your point. And to wear these colors for Dan gradings below 6th or so would certainly be outside the accepted norm, at least so far as tradition would dicate.
 

geezer

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Why do Black Belts feel they need to wear a different belt or have a fancy title to stand out? Isn't it enough to have earned your rank? I am waiting for the new bill boards that get attached to the back of your gi's that say, "hey look at me I am so and so and I have a whatever color belt and that means I am the man, bow to my greatness".

De gustabus non est disputandum. Ultimately it's just a matter of taste. To those of us who value humility and simplicity, all these gaudy trappings are a bit much. But it really has nothing to do with the quality or skill-level of the instructors. Still, I hear ya. I feel the same way about what people do to their uniforms. Karate Gis have become walking billboards in some organizations, and I've seen things like gold trimmed pink silk pajamas used by one Kung Fu "master" on a recent magazine cover... What can you say?
 

tshadowchaser

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Sometimes the ego is larger than the ability.

Distinguish yourself by your actions not by the patches that say “GRANDMASTER, SENSIE, MASTER, PROFESSOR, ETC., or by the full page add on your uniform.

I think a simple small strip on the belt is as good as the multi-colored belts. However if the organization you belong to has a multi-colored belt for 5th, 6th, or whatever rank then I can understand the wearing of one, but to just arbitrarily put on a different colored belt to say I am of higher rank than those guys is a bit hard to swallow
 

Deaf Smith

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When I hit 5th, I kept wearing my old black belt with no strips till my grand master looked at my belt and asked if I was ashamed of the one he gave me. I took the hint and started wearing the one with five strips.

Guys, I don't spend much time worrying about who has what belt. Everyone knows who runs the class and things run smooth (and the one who runs the class demonstrates all the techniques! Leaders lead from in infront.)

Deaf
 

terryl965

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The only way people know I am the head instructor is when I teach and then they say I thought you was the office manager. Ego has no room inside my school, we are a group of people coming together to train and enjoy our training. Most of the time the only ones that care are those that believe stripes on belts means better teacher, how lame is that.
 

MJS

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Why not distinguish him or herself thru quality teaching? Why is a visible symbol needed, especially within a school where everyone ought to know who everyone else is?

And for those outside the school who don't know, what does it matter?

Great post! I agree with this 100%!!!! Black belt with red bars, a red belt, half red/white, a black belt with 10 stripes...who the hell cares. I said it before and I'll say it again....impress me with your skill, not the fancy title or belt.
 

theletch1

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The head instructor at my school was reluctant to stop wearing a plain black belt for quite some time. Eventually, he did add the gold stripe to it. As others have said... to each his own. Show me an instructor who is motivating his students to learn good quality skills and I don't care if he's wearing sweat pants and a t-shirt. The thing you have to remember though is that a lot of the people that begin training in the martial arts do so because they lack self confidence. Each time they earn (or pay for) another level up the line their confidence grows a little more. When they hit black belt they suddenly realize "Oh, crap, I'm out of colors! Guess I'll have to come up with some new ones." So, since a pink belt just isn't "cool" enough they swap over to the red/black ones. ;) Seriously, though, unless you are the number one top dog in your style I see no need for anything other than a simple black belt with a little stripe of tape or embroidery to denote your dan level. All the rest of it is just ego and someone with a big ego is dangerous.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Great post! I agree with this 100%!!!! Black belt with red bars, a red belt, half red/white, a black belt with 10 stripes...who the hell cares. I said it before and I'll say it again....impress me with your skill, not the fancy title or belt.

This is where I stand as well.
icon6.gif
 

Drac

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Great post! I agree with this 100%!!!! Black belt with red bars, a red belt, half red/white, a black belt with 10 stripes...who the hell cares. I said it before and I'll say it again....impress me with your skill, not the fancy title or belt.


Bravo, well said...
 

Steve

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Why not distinguish him or herself thru quality teaching? Why is a visible symbol needed, especially within a school where everyone ought to know who everyone else is?

And for those outside the school who don't know, what does it matter?
Then why issue black belts at all?

Quality teaching will always speak for itself, but you have to agree that many quality teachers will often distinguish themselves from the rank and file by other means, as well.

Using honorifics, bowing to the instructor, any formalities directed at black belts and not at anyone else. These are all different ways that they distinguish themselves. So, recognizing that, in some way, all schools DO distinguish the instructor, why not a new colored belt?
 

theletch1

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Then why issue black belts at all?

Quality teaching will always speak for itself, but you have to agree that many quality teachers will often distinguish themselves from the rank and file by other means, as well.

Using honorifics, bowing to the instructor, any formalities directed at black belts and not at anyone else. These are all different ways that they distinguish themselves. So, recognizing that, in some way, all schools DO distinguish the instructor, why not a new colored belt?

For the students. Most, if not all, new students need that outward notation of rank (and potentially skill level) to look to. My statement about someone wearing sweat pants and a t-shirt is one that I can honestly say that I mean... but only because I'm already a skilled MAist. The new student with no idea what's going on needs that structure to get a feel for things. Once they realize that the belt doesn't make the instructor then the belt has less meaning.
 

Steve

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The head instructor at my school was reluctant to stop wearing a plain black belt for quite some time. Eventually, he did add the gold stripe to it. As others have said... to each his own. Show me an instructor who is motivating his students to learn good quality skills and I don't care if he's wearing sweat pants and a t-shirt .
Okay. So, I have a question (and this may sound silly). Many of you have said that it doesn't matter what the instructor is wearing. I agree. Or at least, I think I agree. What does it matter? If the instructor is wearing sweats and a t-shirt, or they are wearing pink bunny slippers, a gold lame pajamas and a pink belt, what does it matter if they're a quality instructor?

I think that most martial artists are a little eccentric. I like tacky. I like the patched up, camo gis, or the red, blue and/or black (I've even seen a yellow gi and pink ones for the girls) not uncommon in BJJ. It has nothing to do with ego (although you could argue that we have poor taste). My favorite gi of all is black and says, "Get Off My Back" embroidered on the back of the collar, along with a lot of other flair. It's tacky, but I love it. What does it matter? In gi class, we all wear gis, but it literally does not matter what kind. Out of practicality, we wear gis designed to stand up to the rigors of grappling, but if I wanted to dye my gi purple and hand paint smiley faces on it... okay, I'd get looks, but I don't think anyone would tell me not to wear it to class. :)

Ultimately, to couple this with my last post, it seems like you guys are all saying, "It doesn't matter what a quality instructor wears, as long as it's not something I deem to be wrong." For example, sweats and a t-shirt? Cool, because it's ghetto. Fancy Schmancy red and black belt with gold trim? Uncool, because it's... what? Not ghetto? With that, I disagree.
 

theletch1

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I don't think it has anything to do with tacky or cool or even ghetto. This is simply my opinion so take it for what it's worth... An instructor who is of sufficient rank and ability should have reached a point where the outer trappings of that rank have little meaning to them. The insistence on wearing the flashy to set themselves apart speaks to a character flaw of some sort. Needing that recognition from others instead of finding joy in watching your students progress says to me that you don't quite "get it". Again, this is my own opinion and is heavily laden with my own take on how to handle the authority, power and responsibility of being an instructor. Your mileage will certainly vary from poster to poster.
 

Steve

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I don't think it has anything to do with tacky or cool or even ghetto. This is simply my opinion so take it for what it's worth... An instructor who is of sufficient rank and ability should have reached a point where the outer trappings of that rank have little meaning to them. The insistence on wearing the flashy to set themselves apart speaks to a character flaw of some sort. Needing that recognition from others instead of finding joy in watching your students progress says to me that you don't quite "get it". Again, this is my own opinion and is heavily laden with my own take on how to handle the authority, power and responsibility of being an instructor. Your mileage will certainly vary from poster to poster.
How do you feel about an instructor that insists on being addressed as Sir, Sensei, or perhaps Soke (instead of his first name)? It would seem to me that a humble person would say, "Oh, just call me Bob."
 

theletch1

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Depends on the setting. If you're actively in class and training then a certain amount of decorum is expected... especially in a TMA. Guys that insist on being called by their title once class is over have a problem in my opinion. I've known a couple of guys that were in a different style than the one I study that I met locally who introduced themselves as "Sensei such and such" AT A BAR!!! I just introduced myself as Jeff. ;)
 

7starmarc

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It's funny. I have no problem figuring out who the instructor is in our classes, even with a room full of black belts and black belt candidates. I also have no problem figuring out who our most senior/skilled students are among the black belt class. Our highest level instructors sometimes just where a polo-type shirt with the school insignia on it. Occasionally, they'll get wild and bust out the uniform with double piping instead of single.
 

geezer

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I think that most martial artists are a little eccentric. I like tacky... My favorite gi of all is black and says, "Get Off My Back" embroidered on the back of the collar, along with a lot of other flair. It's tacky, but I love it. What does it matter? In gi class, we all wear gis, but it literally does not matter what kind. Out of practicality, we wear gis designed to stand up to the rigors of grappling, but if I wanted to dye my gi purple and hand paint smiley faces on it...

OK, once you add humor to the equation, "tacky" becomes funny, not egotistical. I'd love to see that purple gi with yellow smiley faces. I once trained with a world renowned Kung fu "GrandMaster" who conducted his semi-private training in a bathrobe and flip-flops, often while eating a bowl of noodles! (He was much more formal in public seminars). By that token, some day I'd like to get so good that I could teach in "bunny slippers" if I felt like it...and still get respect. But alas, I doubt I'll live that long!
 

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