SenseiHitman
Orange Belt
they = police obviously,
Self-defense is now ILLEGAL in the UK
- Thread starter moonhill99
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SenseiHitman
Orange Belt
Yes, it is scary the police do not know the law they only enforce it.
I'm curious why you disliked my post when it seems you agree with me.
Then the public is at the mercy of a police officers mood at the time, instead of them turning the case over to a judge and jury to decide.
SenseiHitman
Orange Belt
I hit the wrong button my apologizes will be more careful.
The police (and the prosecutors in some cases) are the ones who make the decision whether to pursue charges in the US, too. That's nothing odd. As for your comment of "innocence or guilt", nobody said anything about determining guilt - just determining when it's an apparent clear case of self-defense. If you want all of those to go to court, I suspect you aren't considering the impact to all those who defend themselves, nor the cost of all those court cases.
I can. Pretty much ANY jurisdiction in the US. Will there be an investigation? Absolutely. Will you be in trouble? Not if it was justifiable.
Isn't that pretty much how the system works (yes, I know it doesn't always work)?
I am assaulted. I use deadly force. There is an investigation to determine if the deadly force was justified. If it clearly was, then that's the end of it. If it's iffy, then it goes to the DA or a Grand Jury or whatever the details are in that particular jurisdiction.
Now, I didn't kill anybody, but in the assault that cost me my eye, I did turn a mugger into a quadriplegic. And that was how it worked. The police investigated. It was clearly justified. I was not arrested. Being attacked was scary. The police doing their job really was not.
Or do you think that the police ought to just arrest everybody in a 2 mile radius of the crime?
Tired_Yeti
Green Belt
If you use deadly force, you WILL be arrested. The important thing is to understand the distinction between being arrested and being convicted. You'll be arrested because the police will need to detain you for questioning during the initial phase of the investigation. You may never actually be charged with a crime and they may simply let you go after getting things sorted out. In any case, my advice is to ALWAYS "lawyer up" (request an attorney and refuse to answer any questions they ask until your attorney arrives).
As charming as they will be at the time, the police are NOT on your side and they are not "trying to help you". They are trying to build a case against the perpetrator (which they may believe is YOU at the time).
Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk
The police here do know the law, the training here is at least 20 weeks at the Force's police college then another two years before they qualify as a police constable. It will take 9-12 months to be accepted in the first place. There is far more to policing than just enforcing the law. the laws that govern how the police work here is the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) codes of practice - Detailed guidance - GOV.UK) and believe me every police officer in the country knows that backwards and forwards, inside and out.
Yes, you most likely could be arrested, as I've said that's not such as serious thing as it seems to be elsewhere, but you can be de-arrested quite easily. It is a means to make sure everyone can be questioned easily but it isn't always used. By all means, get a solicitor being arrested means actually that you are entitled to one free as well. The police take the evidence ( they don't build evidence as such, they collect it and for the most part here sympathy will be with the victim though open minds are kept, bear in mind most things like this are actually perpetrated by known criminals anyway) which is passed to the Crown Prosecution Service. All criminal cases here are prosecuted on behalf of the Queen ( Regina v Smith/Jones/whoever). If the police are quite satisfied that it was justified self defence the CPS will go over it, agree and no case will be made against the person who defended themselves. I did post the criteria that the CPS work under for self defence including the fact that the victim is in fact the victim and that it is taken that the person harmed brought it upon themselves by committing a criminal act. They , in fact were harmed by their own actions. The police aren't stupid it's actually reasonably easy to tell genuine self defence cases from those where someone has set it up. The media sometimes find it less easy though. We don't actually have a lot of self defence cases, we do have break ins and burglaries of course but most are when the householder is out, so called 'home invasions' are rare thank goodness. Perhaps we have more old fashioned cat burglars.
I don't know what police officers job description is in other countries and I don't know what they are perceived as being, I've heard people here say that the police aren't there to protect people but just to deal with crime however that's not the job description here. This is on the role of a police officer by National Police College.
"Police officer
As a police officer your job will be to reduce crime and the fear of crime, and promote confidence among local people that the police understand and are prepared to deal with the issues that matter most to them.
Policing will enable you to work in partnership with the public and other organisations and make a difference to the local community.
You will have a key role in supporting victims and witnesses and providing reassurance to individuals who have been subjected to crime and anti social behaviour. Many people will look to you for guidance and protection from such experiences and to provide this effectively you will need to be able to see things from their perspective, tailoring your approach to address their particular needs and fears.
You must be a person who thrives on challenges, and are willing to work hard to learn the skills necessary for this difficult but critical role.
This can be a tough and unpredictable job, but it is also an extremely rewarding position. Every day when you put on your uniform and go to work, you will be making life safer and more secure for your friends and neighbours, and making your community a better place to live"
There is a big emphasis on police education as well as training in the UK and Europe, here 16 year old who wish to be police officers ( they have to be 18 to apply) can go to college on a 'Public Service' course, most police officer here have educational qualifications anyway including degrees. I'm not posting this to say that any country's force is better but to get over to people the idea that the police are educated, well trained and responsible professionals who aren't like to jump to conclusions and arrest everyone in the hope that someone 'confesses' and they can close the case. That's pure television I believe like shooting tyres out and kicking knives out assailant's hands etc etc.
if you are interested this makes a good read, on European policing. they do note some differences between the US and Europe as it's an American study. EUROPEAN SYSTEMS OF POLICE EDUCATION AND TRAINING
On a political note, just the one, the recent Brexit result has left many of us worrying about whether we will remain in Europol, something that has been successful and we really should remain in.
"Police officer
As a police officer your job will be to reduce crime and the fear of crime, and promote confidence among local people that the police understand and are prepared to deal with the issues that matter most to them.
Policing will enable you to work in partnership with the public and other organisations and make a difference to the local community.
You will have a key role in supporting victims and witnesses and providing reassurance to individuals who have been subjected to crime and anti social behaviour. Many people will look to you for guidance and protection from such experiences and to provide this effectively you will need to be able to see things from their perspective, tailoring your approach to address their particular needs and fears.
You must be a person who thrives on challenges, and are willing to work hard to learn the skills necessary for this difficult but critical role.
This can be a tough and unpredictable job, but it is also an extremely rewarding position. Every day when you put on your uniform and go to work, you will be making life safer and more secure for your friends and neighbours, and making your community a better place to live"
There is a big emphasis on police education as well as training in the UK and Europe, here 16 year old who wish to be police officers ( they have to be 18 to apply) can go to college on a 'Public Service' course, most police officer here have educational qualifications anyway including degrees. I'm not posting this to say that any country's force is better but to get over to people the idea that the police are educated, well trained and responsible professionals who aren't like to jump to conclusions and arrest everyone in the hope that someone 'confesses' and they can close the case. That's pure television I believe like shooting tyres out and kicking knives out assailant's hands etc etc.
if you are interested this makes a good read, on European policing. they do note some differences between the US and Europe as it's an American study. EUROPEAN SYSTEMS OF POLICE EDUCATION AND TRAINING
On a political note, just the one, the recent Brexit result has left many of us worrying about whether we will remain in Europol, something that has been successful and we really should remain in.
Tired_Yeti
Green Belt
LOL!! How can they enforce it if they don't know it?
Are you outside the US?
In the USA, officers are trained to be familiar with the laws they enforce. You can't expect a cop to be a walking encyclopedia of the law (attorneys and judges can't even be that), but they are familiar with the laws and they have the means to look up a law to see what it specifically says. They used to carry criminal code books (municipal code, state code, etc.) now they can access that from the computer in their vehicles.
If/when you get a ticket from a cop in the USA, look at it. You'll see the reference number of the law you broke on the ticket.
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There are a lot of detractors of the police who assume they just arrest on a whim. What I've always found is that those who protest the most and who think police should be chasing 'real criminals' are those who have just been caught doing something they shouldn't, quite often it's drink driving or have been stopped for dangerous or reckless driving. For some being criticised let alone being pulled up for their behaviour makes them angry, they are always 'innocent', they always 'pay your wages' as tax payers and they always know the Chief Constable.
There's a rant on here about the UK police, poster hasn't been back for five years and I can't remember the thread at the moment but he was ranting about how nasty they are because he's been campaigning to legalise cannabis, is always picked on and is a 'free' person. Yep, and the fact you are a free person is because the police keep the real bad guys away from you. If you choose to live in a society, then you have to conform to certain standards of behaviour for your comfort and safety as well as others, it's the price of living with people. You don't have to live with people though, you can go off into the ulu so you affect no one so do what you want.
pgsmith
Master of Arts
You got something against cowboys slick? Are you insinuating that I have shot people in the back because they ran away from me? Are you trying to figure out who you can kill if you visit a foreign country? Do you have any idea how ridiculous your posts sound?
Personally, I think you need to go back and re-read the directions on your meds, because you're definitely operating in an alternate reality from the rest of us.
If it prevents you from being raped or murdered than yes. However, deadly force in the USA is only allowed in the most extreme situations such as if you're in danger of death or grave bodily harm. Most of us hope to never be in such a situation. However, as I said you can only use deadly force in the situations I mentioned above. You can't kill somebody for slapping or shoving you.
With that train of thought you can say police walk around with the intent to hurt people since most police officers in all countries do carry weapons of some sort.
If its criminals being stopped I don't see why they couldn't be carrying guns. There might have laws against owning and carrying guns but criminals don't obey the law, that's what makes them criminals.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
They do. They intend to use force on people and that will hurt those people. We empower them with that role. And because we empower them with that role. We also place restrictions on their behaviour that an average person does not have.
On the contrary a police officer can do lots of stuff an average person can't. If anything, average people are more restricted than police officers.
Well thank you Captain Obvious.
and what can a police officer do that the average person can't? How are people restricted? Police officers aren't above the law, they have to act within it.
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