Self-defense is now ILLEGAL in the UK

[moonhill99]

A lot of countries have similar laws with defending yourself. You can only use as much force as is needed to stop the threat. If you knock the person out and then continue to beat them till they are dead then that is way to far. If someone is trying to kill you and you kill them in the pursuit of saving your own life, then it is justified. If a 110lbs woman attacks a man that weighs 230lbs and he uses extreme force or a weapon to stop her. Then that is definitely going to far.

When you are in a situation where you defend yourself and the result is an injured or dead attacker. The best thing to do is call the police immediately. If you run away you will be caught and you will appear suspicious. When talking to the cops you have to be careful, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. The best thing to say is "I was afraid for my life, I want to speak to a lawyer", nothing else.

Self defense is such a grey area and leaves people with the idea that if they do anything they will get in trouble. It is very unfortunate and leaves many people to become victims.

It does not change the fact even in the US some states have stand you ground law and other states do not.

Where the 911 operator will say hide in your room or in the closest and if you shoot the bad guy thus you can argue you could not retreat.

Where in Texas you can pull out your gun and chase the suspect of your property thus stand your ground law.

Where in other states and other more liberal countries the home owner got arrested for chasing the suspect of your property that don't have stand your ground law. .

 

[moonhill99]

You can't carry a weapon for self defence. If there is one laying around you can use it.

The idea is you are not supposed to be walking around with the intent to hurt people.

What do you mean? If police show up at burglary call and the bad guy is stabbed it is up to you to argue in court you could not retreat. That is why many states in the US that do not have the stand your ground law say the retreat law is up for debate in court as you have to prove it. That I cannot retreat and I thought the bad guy was going to kill me and thus I stabbed him or shot him.

 

[moonhill99]

What utter rubbish, complete and total nonsense.

In the UK you are allowed to defend yourself, you can even use a pre emptive strike if you feel your life is in danger and you can use weapons. All that is asked in law is that the force used is reasonable. You can certainly 'stand your ground'.

"The first thing that the government has done is banned a variety of sexual acts," and what the hell is that about...I suspect and I'm going to be looking into this further especially with the other site that those 'variety of sexual acts' mentioned is paedophilia.
If the OP is not only posting up nonsense about self defence but is using sites promoting paedophilia I think there will be repercussions.

I never said sexual acts it most be some thing in the article that they are talking about some news laws just got passed. .

They probably mean this fetish.

A long list of sex acts just got banned in UK porn

And fetish pornography producers like that are banned.

spanking ,Caning, Aggressive whipping, Penetration by any object "associated with violence" ,Physical or verbal abuse (regardless of if consensual) ,Urolagnia (known as "water sports"), Role-playing as non-adults ,Physical restraint ,Humiliation ,Female ejaculation ,Strangulation ,Facesitting and Fisting.

The producers companies of some fetish acts.

 

[moonhill99]

Lets take one of the sites comments apart.
"The United Kingdom has been moving politically to the Left for some time now, but even in our wildest dreams, never could we have imagined that it would become illegal to protect yourself there."

Incorrect, we have a Conservative government and at this moment an Opposition that is more centre than left, after Brexit the country has moved more to the Right.

"As reported by The New American, British subjects seeking advice about what are and are not permissible self-defense instruments found some recently on a police web site. It is sponsored by the British government's Police National Legal Database."

That 'police website' isn't an official police website, nor is the 'Police National legal Database' government run, they are one and the same thing, a charity purporting to give advice.

"In another case, a well-known TV personality was seated at her kitchen table with her daughter one night when she caught several young men peering through her window. She immediately began looking around for something to use to defend herself and her daughter from what she believed was an imminent attack and found a kitchen knife. She waved it in front of them and chased them away."

This was a rather sad publicity stunt admitted by the person concerned.


Real people have experienced the absurdity of such rules being enforced with diligence across the country. Three knife-wielding burglars [guns are illegal in England] invaded a home in England, tied up the family members and threatened to kill the father. One of the members managed to escape and get help. The family member and the helper returned and inflicted permanent brain damage on one of burglars — a criminal, by the way, with more than 50 previous convictions — using a cricket bat. Authorities arrested the defendants — the victims — and sent them to prison for more than two years. The attacker? He escaped punishment.

Not exactly the truth. The family member and 'helper' didn't return to the house, they ran through the streets and beat up someone they thought the family member recognised as one of the burglars.

To be honest this is not a British article but an American one designed to fool people into thinking that in the UK it is other than it is, the purpose of this is to support their own views and put them forward to Americans. Therefore this is a political article, full of lies and propaganda. Believe it if you wish but you'd be a fool to.

Are hand guns not banned in the UK? I thought lot of police don't even have guns in the UK?

Can you buy sword in the UK?

 

[Tez3]

Are hand guns not banned in the UK? I thought lot of police don't even have guns in the UK?

Can you buy sword in the UK?

Yes you can buy swords ( and knives, machetes, kukris, etc etc) in the UK. Hand guns can be licensed by the Home Office but we don't carry them around.

We have armed police officers, of course we do. we even have two police forces permanently armed, one of which carries their weapons with them off duty as well.

The sex acts aren't banned, you just can't show them in porn films. Can't you tell the difference between reality and films?

It's clear you don't understand an awful lot about law, crime and self defence.

 

[Chris Parker]

Christ…

The OP has been taken to task numerous times for posting erroneous information and not bothering to validate the statements he makes. This time is no different than any of the others. Fortunately, there are any number of people on the forum that are willing to attempt to educate the OP since he seems determined to avoid educating himself.

This. However… some things I just don't let stand… but it must be said, Paul's absolutely right.

Well I don't know about the UK but in the USA you're allowed to defend yourself. That's part of what in my opinion makes the USA so beautiful.

You can defend yourself in every nation on the planet. There is nothing special about the US there at all, other than you guys seem to have a love of, and preference for, lethal responses. And if you think that is "beautiful", well…

That said, you're absolutely right. You don't know about the UK. Or anywhere else, frankly.

One if the impressions I've got from some of what's been said on this forum regarding Australia and self defense is that you can use self defense in Australia as long as you don't use weapons.

What on earth are you talking about? No-one, at any point on this forum has ever said anything of the kind. No-one. It'd be idiocy to even suggest. What we do like, however, is some kind of common sense, proportionate response… justified force and so on. If a weapon is justified, use a weapon. If someone calls you a name, and you decide to run them over with your car, that's not exactly proportionate.

Got it?

The article may been bit misreading but was talking about weapons.

No where in any of the articles is it saying you could not use martial arts for self defense.

It just you cannot go to store and by gun for self defense. And guns have to be locked in safe.

To get gun for target shooting or hunting is red tape. Have to get approval why you want to own a gun and you must prove it, background checks, safety class, proper permits, two people must say you okay person to own a gun.

To own gun is really hard in Australia.

Quote You have to be a member of a target shooting club or a hunter and you have to prove it. For hunting, you can get written permission from a landowner who says you are hunting on his land. Or you can join a hunting club. Pistols [handguns], on the other hand, are heavily restricted. All applicants undergo a background check by the police and there is a mandatory 30 day cooling off period for all license applications, both long arms and pistols. Firearms safety training courses are mandatory as well.

Another part of the law that changed is that the police can come to your house and inspect your storage. When we renovated our house, I built a room dedicated to my firearms collection. They’re all in large safes. All the ammunition is stored separately to the rifles and the pistols. Quote

What it’s Like to Own Guns in a Country with Strict Gun Control.

What it's Like to Own Guns in a Country with Strict Gun Control

It is even harder in the the UK.

Son, rather than go through the lunacy of your post, I'm simply going to suggest you don't try to tell us here in Australia what it's like here in Australia. You don't have a clue.

But no, owning a gun is not hard here. It's simply not so insanely easy as it appears to be in the US. Really, what it comes down to is we ask "do you have a reason to own one?", whereas the US seems to prefer asking "is there a reason for us to not give you one?", with a preference for looking for a way to say "no"….

Even the cops don't really have weapons self defense and shoot people armed with knife in the UK.

Just look at the many youtube clips of many officers dancing around on youtube throughing trash cans and any thing they can find at a suspects armed with non gun.

The UK police hardly shoot people armed with knife, stick or other weapon that is not a gun

There has been 55 police shootings in UK in past 24 years compared 640 people shot by police this year in the US.

The US average close to 1,000 people shot by police every year in the US.

And there been several people arrested just for threatening the bad guy breaking into your home in the UK. Not stabbing just threatening the bad guy with a knife.

The UK is not culture difference it is complete culture difference for both public and the police.

Read up on the retreat law vs stand your ground law. Read up on police officers getting arrested in the UK and Canada for shooting suspect armed with knife. Where courts saying the police officers should of moved out of harms way and called in Special response unit that could of tased the suspect or had police shield. Where normally courts say unless suspect walks or runs after the police officer shooting is not justified.

A complete culture difference. This would be joke in US public eye for even the liberals. Where you are armed and I tell you to drop it and you don't I shoot and case is closed.

Yeah… maybe don't try to lecture on the UK's laws and culture either… nor anything to do with LEO's, the law itself, or anything of the kind. You're really not in any position to do so.

What do you mean? If police show up at burglary call and the bad guy is stabbed it is up to you to argue in court you could not retreat. That is why many states in the US that do not have the stand your ground law say the retreat law is up for debate in court as you have to prove it. That I cannot retreat and I thought the bad guy was going to kill me and thus I stabbed him or shot him.

If you can express sufficiently why it was necessary, and it is deemed to be proportionate, then yeah, that's what you say. The basic idea is predicated on "present ability"… can the aggressor make good on the threat to kill you? Do they have the means and opportunity? Can you not escape? Then yeah, lethal force is going to be seen as justified… but you have to make sure that it can be demonstrated when required.

Are hand guns not banned in the UK? I thought lot of police don't even have guns in the UK?

Weren't you trying to give stats on police shootings in the UK? How do you think they are shooting people if they don't have guns?!?

Can you buy sword in the UK?

Considering some of my friends in the UK who train in sword arts, I'm going to say yes… but here's the thing… none of them are buying swords for self defence… because they're not delusional lunatics… lunatics, sure, but not delusional (hi, Scott!).

 

[Tez3]

Even the cops don't really have weapons self defense and shoot people armed with knife in the UK.

So what are your qualifications for being an expert on UK policing then?

There has been 55 police shootings in UK in past 24 years compared 640 people shot by police this year in the US.

Well, that's something to be proud of, we don't go around shooting people with our, according to you non existent guns, just because we can.

And there been several people arrested just for threatening the bad guy breaking into your home in the UK. Not stabbing just threatening the bad guy with a knife.

You're the expect, tell me what being arrested means in the UK, because I can tell you it doesn't mean the same as it does in the US. Anyone can be arrested ( and de-arrested) in a situation where officers arrive and it's not clear who has done what and who everyone is, arresting mean all suspects and potential witnesses are not going to disappear.

Read up on the retreat law vs stand your ground law. Read up on police officers getting arrested in the UK and Canada for shooting suspect armed with knife

No officer in the UK has been arrested for shooting someone with a knife, if you have articles saying there is then they are false. Unlike you I won't speak for Canada because I don't know anything about Canadian laws and policing practices. We don't have stand your ground or retreat laws here, not in any of the six country's legal systems we have in the UK.

Where courts saying the police officers should of moved out of harms way and called in Special response unit that could of tased the suspect or had police shield. Where normally courts say unless suspect walks or runs after the police officer shooting is not justified.

All UK police officers can carry tasers if they want, there is no 'special taser unit'. There's no special unit for 'shields' either. We've never had a court case where a police shooting has been judged unjustified, it might infuriate certain groups but that's the truth. British policing isn't perfect, there's flaws, mistakes and ineptitude at times but on the whole police officers do their best, to malign them the way you do is nothing short of criminal. You don't live here, you don't get to criticise, you don't pay taxes which pay for our police forces so just shut up.


Stop posting lies and misinformation, stop thinking you are some sort of bloody police expert, just stop. You are making a fool of yourself.

 

[WW3 Combatives]

In the UK you are allowed and entitled to have a solicitor, being abrupt with the police is not recommended. What you have to understand is that when police officers arrive at a scene they have no way of telling who is who and what has been done, they aren't against anyone, they just don't know who is telling the truth so a series of actions is take to enable what happened to be pieced together. Assuming the police are against you from the start would be false, here at least anyway. One doesn't have to be so much 'careful' as to be prepared to tell the truth, police officers will understand that a victim is shaken and upset.
this is the law on self defence in the UK.
Self Defence: Legal Guidance: The Crown Prosecution Service

Yes it is different everywhere. I would say too that it is good to give an explanation of what happened. Still in Canada and the States one must be careful of what is said.

 

[Tez3]

Yes it is different everywhere. I would say too that it is good to give an explanation of what happened. Still in Canada and the States one must be careful of what is said.

Here the police may well arrest everyone involved, this doesn't have the significance it does in other countries but it does give the arrested person rights which includes having a (free) solicitor present when being interviewed by the police.

This is the police caution here given when arresting. “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

 

[frank raud]

Read up on the retreat law vs stand your ground law. Read up on police officers getting arrested in the UK and Canada for shooting suspect armed with knife.

A complete culture difference. This would be joke in US public eye for even the liberals. Where you are armed and I tell you to drop it and you don't I shoot and case is closed.

With your in depth knowledge, please tell me about police being charged for shooting someone with a knife in Canada, and while you're at it, explain how that doesn't happen in America.

 

[Tez3]

A lot of swearing in these. On the whole this though is how you will be spoken to by British police, if you are violent however expect to be arrested robustly.

so yes the police do carry tasers here.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There has been 55 police shootings in UK in past 24 years compared 640 people shot by police this year in the US.

The US average close to 1,000 people shot by police every year in the US.

And there been several people arrested just for threatening the bad guy breaking into your home in the UK. Not stabbing just threatening the bad guy with a knife.

The UK is not culture difference it is complete culture difference for both public and the police.

Read up on the retreat law vs stand your ground law. Read up on police officers getting arrested in the UK and Canada for shooting suspect armed with knife. Where courts saying the police officers should of moved out of harms way and called in Special response unit that could of tased the suspect or had police shield. Where normally courts say unless suspect walks or runs after the police officer shooting is not justified.

A complete culture difference. This would be joke in US public eye for even the liberals. Where you are armed and I tell you to drop it and you don't I shoot and case is closed.

It's hard to tell with the general incoherence of moonhill99's posts, but is he citing the nearly 1000 shootings yearly by police in the U.S. vs 55 shootings in 24 years by police in the U.K. as a point of pride for the U.S.? Speaking as a U.S. citizen, I'm not exactly comfortable saying "our country is better than yours because our police shoot way more people than yours do, so nyah!"

 

[pgsmith]

But no, owning a gun is not hard here. It's simply not so insanely easy as it appears to be in the US. Really, what it comes down to is we ask "do you have a reason to own one?", whereas the US seems to prefer asking "is there a reason for us to not give you one?", with a preference for looking for a way to say "no"….

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. Lots of guns. Lots of very knowledgeable and experienced people with guns. Unfortunately, a lot of lunatics and idiots with guns also.

Stop posting lies and misinformation, stop thinking you are some sort of bloody police expert, just stop. You are making a fool of yourself.

This right here. Doesn't seem to bother him much though as he's been coming across the fool for quite some time now in pretty much every post he makes.

 

[Tez3]

It's hard to tell with the general incoherence of moonhill99's posts, but is he citing the nearly 1000 shootings yearly by police in the U.S. vs 55 shootings in 24 years by police in the U.K. as a point of pride for the U.S.? Speaking as a U.S. citizen, I'm not exactly comfortable saying "our country is better than yours because our police shoot way more people than yours do, so nyah!"

Perhaps someone who is good at statistics could work out the comparison between 1000 shootings in the USA with a population of 325 million and the UK shootings of 60 in 26 years ( the real figures) with a population of just 64 million, perhaps the figures wouldn't be that different? 6 dead in 2005 is the highest total for a year here. It doesn't sound much when you compare it to America but perhaps 1000 isn't much when you consider the size of the US?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Perhaps someone who is good at statistics could work out the comparison between 1000 shootings in the USA with a population of 325 million and the UK shootings of 60 in 26 years ( the real figures) with a population of just 64 million, perhaps the figures wouldn't be that different? 6 dead in 2005 is the highest total for a year here. It doesn't sound much when you compare it to America but perhaps 1000 isn't much when you consider the size of the US?

Without getting out my calculator, that comes out with the U.S. having roughly 100 times the per capita incidence of police shootings than the U.K..

 

[Tez3]

Without getting out my calculator, that comes out with the U.S. having roughly 100 times the per capita incidence of police shootings than the U.K..

Considering how many guns there are in the country probably not so bad ( there are many things to factor in I imagine, poverty, gangs, social conditions, terrorist attacks etc different places having different problems plus a justified fear that anyone being stopped by the police can be armed whereas it's unlikely here, at least armed with a gun anyway), any police shootings are regrettable because of the effects they have on police officers ( I'm not talking about the current highly publicised ones that have happened recently, I know little to nothing about those situations). It may suit moonhill to think that the police are aggressive bulldogs who act like Robocop but killing something is not something a police officer wants to do and it takes a long time getting over taking a life even when it's justifiable and saves lives.
Traditionally here long before anyone came up with so-called 'gun control' the weapons of choice here were always knives rather than guns even when guns we supposed to be available. 'Gun control' here has a long very tangled history with guns being denied to only Catholics as one time, (that's why the Pilgrim Fathers being Protestants had 'guns') then only Catholics as various kings and queens feared uprisings from whichever faction they were oppressing at the time. Then we've had terrorism for centuries, bombs and shootings, Guy Fawkes was a terrorist along with his gang. There's been a lot throughout our history right up to the present day, all this informs our thoughts on gun ownership.

 

[EddieCyrax]

various kings and queens feared uprisings from whichever faction they were oppressing at the time.

And thus the creation of the USA Second Amendment created by colonist from where?!?

Just to complete the history lesson....ha ha ha

 

[Kenpoguy123]

Well Australia is kinda like the UK too where Self defense is out.

Self defence is a very "grey" area under the law. You cannot use any more force than is reasonably necessary to stop the threat to your life.

Any form of self defense you use in Australia that involves the use of a weapon (including a knife or baseball bat or stick ) or a special skill (like martial arts) will almost certainly find you arrested by the police.

I know Japan also has laws like this where you cannot even get sword.

In the Netherlands, Finland and Japan you cannot buy gun for Self defense.

U,m you contradict yourself there you say self defence is out then in the next sentence you say you can't use any more force than is reasonably necessary. Well yeah that's kind of obvious isn't it if a drunk swings for me I'm not going to put him on the ground and stamp on his face until he's unconscious I'll block his and if I have to hit him back to stop then I will but once he's stopped i stop that's reasonable force

 

[Tez3]

And thus the creation of the USA Second Amendment created by colonist from where?!?

Just to complete the history lesson....ha ha ha

Ah but the Pilgrim Fathers weren't oppressed in the UK, they were Puritans who wanted to make people do things their way and were told 'on yer bike sunshine' so they went off to the colonies ie America to make what they thought was going to be lots of money

 

[Kenpoguy123]

Anyway all this stuff about it being illegal I don't care if it is if someone attacks me I will defend myself. If some scum bags trying to do me in I'm not going to think I can't hit back or I'm getting arrested ill do whatever I have to do to stop the guy and I'll face the consequences of my actions but I'd rather have to face a jury then face a priest