Respect is earned vs. automatically given

[puunui]

Actually you still owe him respect even if he wasn't your instructor's instructor.

Actually I take issue with this statement. He needs to EARN respect no matter what or who he thinks he is. Now in a formal setting you have to respect the rank... to a point. However when that person abuses his position you owe him nothing.

I understand many feel that way. However, in Korean culture, respect is automatically given.

This makes sense if you think about it. There are many situations were respect is automatically given. In the military for example, if a general walks by everyone stands at attention and salutes. If someone disagrees with an order of a superior rank, there is a respectful procedure to follow to have that addressed.

Many people disagree with calls made by the referee during a match. Which shows the proper attitude, continuing to be respectful to the referee even if you disagree with the call, or to take the attitude that the referee has now disrespected you, that he/she failed to EARN your respect?

Often times we do not know or understand the reasons given for our seniors actions. I can tell you of many instances both in the martial arts and outside the martial arts where I did not feel like listening, where I was upset at what was being asked of me, only to later find out that my objections were without merit. Had I flew off the handle and taken the screw you route, then everything would have been made worse. I have come to realize that in situations such as these, it is a test of your discipline and training on how you handle the situation.

Put another way, when we were teenagers, we rebelled against our parents and felt they could do no right as far as we were concerned, only to learn later that they our parents actually had our best interests in mind when they told us to not smoke, to do our homework, not stay out late or drink at the prom or whatever else. At the time it felt like an invasion on our person (who are they to tell us what to do?), but was it really, in hindsight? In any event, it is best in these situations, to automatically give respect, rather than take the position that respect is "earned".

 

[Kacey]

I understand what you're trying to say, but I would phrase it somewhat differently. I demonstrate courtesy to anyone, regardless of my opinion toward them and whether or not I truly respect them. I am courteous to those whose position is such that courtesy is owed - seniors (both those of senior rank and those who are older than I am), superiors (in the work place, in the military if such applies, etc.) and so on - but I save respect for those whose actions have earned respect from me.

 

[Sukerkin]

Certain words carry different meanings to different people I suspect too.

I excercise courtesy to everyone, whether they've earned it or not. Mind you there is a caveat to that as some of my friends have accused me, with some justification, of using it as a weapon; for I, it seems, become even more polite than usual to those that have aroused my wroth .

I agree with what Kacey was saying about 'respect' but for me I term that 'admiration' as that is something that can be won through actions and opinions.

Respect, for me, is more something that can be lost rather than won, for, like courtesy, everyone is owed due respect until such time as they have proved that they do not deserve it.

And don't get me going on that intangible that is 'honour' :lol:.

 

[Archangel M]

Those are examples of military "courtesy" not "respect". I didn't know many of the officers I saluted well enough to know if I respected them or not.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I give respect and courtesy to everyone, unless they demonstrate that they do not deserve it. Repecting someone requires no reason; NOT respecting them does. Elevating them from respected to admired also requires a reason.

You can count me as another of those who becomes more rigidly polite (and formal) with those I no longer respect.

 

[chrispillertkd]

There is a difference between courtesy and respect. One can (and should) be courteous to everybody.

A certain amount of respect is owed to everyone simnply because they are a person and have a certain dignity inherent to that condition. That is, obviously, not the kind of respect Glenn is talking about. Despite having an inherent dignity people can do plenty to cause others to lose and other respect that they once had for them (respect based on abilities, accomplishments, hardships that were overcome, etc.).

Pax,

Chris

 

[Earl Weiss]

I agree that to an extent this is a semantics issue.

As I explaint o students vis a vis the tenet of Courtesy. I explain this means to be polite and have good manners. I also explain that you can exhibit courtesy to those whom you do not know and even those whom you do not like.

I explain that respect is earned. BUT where i differ from the above is that respect may be earned and due becuase of something someone has achieved irrespective of whether you were directly involved. I believe this is the Military example. Respect is shown for the rank and uniform irrespective of the individula wearing it. Now, that particular individual may be due respect for their accomplishemnets as well or their relationship with you.

The same may hold true for someone holding an elected office. This may very well be one of those things courtesy / respect. where the lines of distinction are not always crystal clear.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I am courteous to everyone, but I dont respect everyone. I am only a first dan, yet I can think of a 5th dan I train with who I dont respect. People earn respect, I dont care what colour someone's belt is or how many fancy stripes are embroided on it, I will only respect them if they earn my respect.

 

[puunui]

I understand what you're trying to say, but I would phrase it somewhat differently. I demonstrate courtesy to anyone, regardless of my opinion toward them and whether or not I truly respect them. I am courteous to those whose position is such that courtesy is owed - seniors (both those of senior rank and those who are older than I am), superiors (in the work place, in the military if such applies, etc.) and so on - but I save respect for those whose actions have earned respect from me.

What is the difference between courtesy and respect in your opinion?

 

[seasoned]

I understand what you're trying to say, but I would phrase it somewhat differently. I demonstrate courtesy to anyone, regardless of my opinion toward them and whether or not I truly respect them. I am courteous to those whose position is such that courtesy is owed - seniors (both those of senior rank and those who are older than I am), superiors (in the work place, in the military if such applies, etc.) and so on - but I save respect for those whose actions have earned respect from me.

This is very well put. What I am hearing is courtesy, is about me and my interaction with you, or anyone. Respect is about you and your dealings pertaining to your life and how it impacts others, for the better. I can respect someone that takes life serious, and in what ever endeavor they choose, they can strive to add purpose and meaning to others on their quest to navigate through the hills and valleys of life. Anyone that can take charge of their life, and do what is necessary to make their personal world a better place, while at the same time being considerate of others journey has earned my respect.

 

[Earl Weiss]

From dictionary.com:
respect </SPAN></SPAN>

&#8194; &#8194;http://app.dictionary.com/signup/po...lbackAction=addToFav&domaindest=reference.com/r&#618;&#712;sp&#603;kt/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[ri-spekt] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
&#8211;noun
1.
a particular, detail, or point (usually preceded by in ): to differ in some respect.
2.
relation or reference: inquiries with respect to a route.
3.
esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
4.
deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
5.
the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
6.
respects, a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship: Give my respects to your parents.
7.
favor or partiality.
8.
Archaic . a consideration.
&#8211;verb (used with object)
9.
to hold in esteem or honor: I cannot respect a cheat.
10.
to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone's rights.
11.
to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person's privacy.
12.
to relate or have reference to

 

[Kacey]

What is the difference between courtesy and respect in your opinion?

Courtesy - the outward display of behavior according to the rules of etiquette in a particular situation

Respect - the feeling of a sense of worth directed toward a particular person, position, event or remembrance

 

[Steve]

Personally, I'd say that being courteous is a part of acting respectfully. It's possible to be respectful to someone you don't respect individually.

Being respectful is internal, having to do with the way I act regardless of whom I'm with. Respect is external, having to do with the specific individual with whom I'm interacting.

In other words, acting with respect is up to me. Gaining my respect is up to you.

 

[Sukerkin]

I like that last sentence, Steve. Gets the point across simply and effectively.

 

[puunui]

Courtesy - the outward display of behavior according to the rules of etiquette in a particular situation

Respect - the feeling of a sense of worth directed toward a particular person, position, event or remembrance

So is the outward display of courtesy the same whether or not you respect the person? I ask because I think the courtesy and respect are two sides of the same coin, that you cannot separate them. I also think that those who do attempt to separate them end up being discourteous to those that the feel are unworthy of respect.

 

[puunui]

When addressing ITF matters or how things are done in the ITF, I spell it "Taekwon-Do" with a hyphen, because that is how the ITF spells it. Similarly, I address General Choi as General Choi, because that is the title that is used within the ITF. Is doing these things courtesy or respect?

 

[Steve]

Certainly, it is respecting a convention. Respect can also be reserved for institutions, ideas or, in the case, organizations.

Similarly, I respect my country, and so when someone sings the national anthem, I stand at attention and put my hand over my heart. This is regardles of whom we call our Commander in Chief. I also respect the office of the President, whether I respect the person in office or not.

 

[puunui]

So for you, respect is automatically given?

 

[Steve]

No. What makes you say that?

 

[Earl Weiss]

When addressing ITF matters or how things are done in the ITF, I spell it "Taekwon-Do" with a hyphen, because that is how the ITF spells it. Similarly, I address General Choi as General Choi, because that is the title that is used within the ITF. Is doing these things courtesy or respect?

As you say "Two sides of the same coin", so, since it's your coin your definitions would apply.

IMO it's like the old "When in Rome do as the Romans do". I consider that courtesy, since, while I may observe certain host rituals as a courtesy to the host, I may be totally devoid of any feeling for the rituals whatsoever including respect.