Putting Others Down

[MJS]

While surfing various forums, I often come across many posts/threads by people who seem to thrive on putting others down. Look at any youtube clip and often, you can see comments that are left by people. Of course, many comments are good, but others also put the art in question down.

If an art doesn't spar, it must suck. If art A isn't like art B, it must suck. The list can go on and on. Many times someone will comment on an art and they have absolutely zero background in the art they're commenting on. How can someone judge something by a clip, something they read or something they hear from someone else? While you will be able to form an opinion, chances are that opinion will be distorted because you have no experience in the art. The old saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover", comes to mind here.

I think its clear where I'm going with this thread, so at this time, I'd like to hear from others. What are your views on people who have nothing better to do with their time, than put another art down?

Mike

 

[newGuy12]

Look at any youtube clip and often, you can see comments that are left by people. Of course, many comments are good, but others also put the art in question down.

Mike, as I understand it, youtube is known for that. The so-called "haters" post a bunch of idiot comments.

Hehe --> its like they say, read digg for the stories, read slashdot for the comments.

Or, in our case, go to youtube for the videos, then read martialtalk for the comments.

 

[Tez3]

There are people around who make themselves feel better by putting others down and some people just enjoy stirring things to make trouble sadly. I was at an MMA fight night Saturday where one of the fights went to a judges decision, I think it went the wrong way as did a few others but that's the way things go and to be honest they shouldn't have let it go to the judges as the old saying goes.The decision was a fair one though not fixed, it could have honestly gone either way. A few of us were discussing it on an MMA forum, it was a discussion not an argument, interesting and friendly until someone who had just signed on starts making derogatory remarks about the winner, calling him names because he was ginger and saying the fight was fixed with the judges etc. On the third post the person says they have no interest in MMA but had seen the fight on Utube and though it was a bad decision!

The rugby world cup is on at the moment and England are through to the final against South Africa and it seems now that everyone is an expert on rugby and has always supported England! Yet before the world cup oh dear the slagging off the England players had to put with! Some of the criticisms they received was very personal, I know professional sport people should be used to public comments about their performances ut some of it has got to hurt. A lot of it came from people who had never lifted a ball in their lives as you were saying about the critics of martial arts never having even tried it.

 

[meth18au]

I hate the haters!!! I dedicate this smiley to all of them: :bird: LOL


They really hinder any chance of having meaningful discussions around different art forms. I just find that these people will come along and say 'art A sucks'- and then all the practitioners of art A get mad, causing the conversation to turn into a verbal slanging match!!!


I think if somebody comes along with something decent to say, through their own experience and it was knowledgeable- then it might be worth listening to! You Tube is by far the biggest farce when it comes to slander against our beautiful arts. I was watching a Muay Thai video the other day and the comments below it went something like this: "Muay Thai sucks because the Thai's stole it from the Khmers- that is why Bradal Serey is better". The response is that "Muay Thai doesn't suck- look at Buakaw he is the best", followed by "Buakaw isn't even Thai, he is Khmer. Therefore Khmers kick Thai ***". Talk about a constructive conversation as to the effectiveness of Muay Thai vs Bradal Serey!!! LOL

 

[Kreth]

Hey Mike, at least you have the balls to allow comments. Ashida Kim et al usually disable them.

 

[14 Kempo]

Yes, I've seen that on YouTube ... and to be honest, I've seen it on message boards as well. MartialTalk is not void of it, although I believe the moderators here take care of it much better than on other MA boards. Another old saying comes to mind, "If you have nothing good to say ... "

It's OK to ask questions, sometimes, with some people, a person can tell the questions are loaded, thus another way to stir the pot. There are some on message boards that are always looking for a fight, so-to-speak. In my mind, people that act in such a manner are insecure. Just as in a street altercation, usually the loud mouth is the most insecure. It's usually the quiet person, the confident person, that is the one to worry about and in this case, the one to listen too. Negativity wastes energy that could be better utilized in the enhancement of oneself.

 

[jim777]

It's terrible, and it always makes me wonder how one martial artist can be so negative to another. I usually end up assuming that the person leaving the comment isn't a martial artist, but a video gamer.

There used to be a video on Youtube of a kid maybe 16 doing a Lohan long form, which was ridiculously impressive. He wasn't a KungFu master, but the amount of energy, skill, and practice he had put into the form was very evident. It's a long form, far longer than a TKD hyung. Anyway, every single comment was bad. It was worse than discouraging, it was heartbreaking. It became the only MA Youtube vid that I ever commented on. I ended up writing something like "Ignore the morons in the peanut gallery, you've done a great job with the form so far and you just need to perfect it. Keep practicing and good luck". The video was gone a couple of days later though. I felt bad for the kid, because he was honestly young enough to be a son ans must have been proud of his accomplishmnet to put it up in the first place.
I think in general it's just a sad mark of the times that people who seemingly can't hit mediocrity in any facet of their own lives demand perfection in every facet of the lives of strangers. the idea of "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything" doesn't exist on sites like YouTube.

jim

 

[terryl965]

Hey Mike, at least you have the balls to allow comments. Ashida Kim et al usually disable them.

Agree Mike you have the guts to stand by your Art and post.

 

[Drac]

I cannot add to what has already been posted...We should be one big brotherhood/sisterhood..We share something the avarage person cannot understand..

 

[jks9199]

I try to avoid posting negatively; that doesn't mean that I don't disagree with people, or even feel that some folks some places some times say things that are just plain stupid. But there are good ways to express that disagreement, and bad. "UR LAME!" is bad. "That's not been my experience" or "I think you missed...." or even "you need more practice!" are much more positive ways to express your disagreement.

 

[Sukerkin]

I have noted that the comments on YouTube are often so slanderous and vitriolic that if the person were actually present then they might earn themselves a physical reprimand for their words.

I've never really understood why it is that some, usually young, people feel this need to shred anything that someone else tries to achieve. That is especially so when it comes to something demanding like a martial art.

I do have to confess, tho', that the few times I've posted a comment on a YouTube video have mostly been to try and correct someones misconceptions about what constitutes swordwork. I don't think I've been hateful or derisory about it but I have spoken quite firmly to one chap in particular who was clearly deluding his 'fan base' - the only result of that was that my comments were deleted and I was prevented from making any more (which says a lot about many things ).

Putting someones genuine efforts down is quite different from constructive criticism and sadly there is something about YouTube that brings out the worst in people - particularly when it comes to vulgarity in addressing videos presented by women (I'm no shrinking violet having been around bikers for many years and the language used shocks me). As was said above, it's best just to stream the video and go elsewhere for commentary.

 

[Karatedrifter7]

This is kind of digressing but I know someone like that is in my marital arts class.
Unfortuanetly he is sometimes assigned to me to coach me on forms etc because he is a higher rank. He comes up with more complaints things that the Main instructor doesnt see. He says things like " You dont practice," and "Your stances are terrible," of course I practice and the other people I work with who rank higher than him, think my stances are good so.
His put down attitude isnt just desiganated to Kenpo. I've heard him talk about work and he says things like " I'm helping everybody's butt at my job," "There all losers"
Once after I took a trip to Boston I asked him if he'd ever been there. He said"
"Unfortunately yes,"
But you know how MA classes are I have to grin and shake his hand at the end and say "Nice seeing you,"

 

[Steel Tiger]

I have noted that the comments on YouTube are often so slanderous and vitriolic that if the person were actually present then they might earn themselves a physical reprimand for their words.

The degree of vitriol in these comments must stem from the protection of anonymity and distance. There is no way a person would get away with some of the things said if they were face to face. It is an unfortunate symptom of the internet I think.

I've never really understood why it is that some, usually young, people feel this need to shred anything that someone else tries to achieve. That is especially so when it comes to something demanding like a martial art.

I think what we see on YouTube and in other places speaks to a basic insecurity. It does not surprise me that many of the comments come from younger people, as they are more likely to be unsure of themselves and their position. There appears to be an essential need to prove themselves, and it is much easier to voice a short negative than try to construct a positive response.


Of course some people are just small-minded, vicious malcontents and nothing will ever satisfy them.

 

[MJS]

I haven't put any clips up on Youtube. However, if I did, I'd most likely keep it so people could post comments. Hey, I'm all for constructive comments...I take 'em all the time from my instructors. If someone feels its necessary to talk trash, well, that speaks volumes about them. Proves to me at least, that they don't have any guts and need to hide behind the computer.

Of course, this not only applies to video, but the forums as well. What amazes me, is that people speak as if they have been training in the art they're bashing for 20yrs. How does someone know if something doesnt work by seeing a picture, a clip or by what someone else says? Don't ya think you should have more to go on in order to judge something?

At the least, if someone is so hellbent on saying that something doesn't work, why not take the time to seek out someone who trains in the art they're bashing, and see live, first hand what works/doesn't work. Funny how few, if any, actually follow thru with doing it. If I had a dollar for every time someone bashed Ninjutsu, I'd be a very rich man. I wonder how many talkers actually have gone down to a school to see the art live.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Yeah. Those people who put people down are real cretins. I'm glad I can feel superior to them. :angel:

 

[still learning]

Hello, We live in world where "free speech" is allow. Opinions and comments....many base NOT on true facts or fiqures....are still allow to be heard!

To agree or disagree is our option too! Humans are not perfect....therefore....Egos and prides....are not perfect either.

Many times we do not use words? ....we just use techniques that will put a person down? ...is this better?

"Freedom of speech" .....everyone right's ....not everyone will agree?

Aloha ....where we speak "pigeon" ...."U go I stay"...

 

[Kacey]

Many people will say things when they are anonymous that they would not say when they could be identified - it is a form of moral cowardice that particularly concerns me in today's society, because it is becoming easier all the time to indulge in this particular ill.

People who disagree with others openly and identifiably - but with a clearly stated rationale - can be annoying, irritating - even infuriating - but at least they have the moral conviction to put their name (even a consistently used user name) behind what they say. I may not agree with them (and often I don't) - but I respect their willingness to explain their position and stand behind it. People who find it necessary to make anonymous negative statements are small-minded cowards, who, in the vast majority of cases, would not have made those statements in person or in a venue where they could be easily identified.

 

[exile]

If Thoreau was right when he said that the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation—and I believe he was dead on-target—then right there you have all the motivation you need to account for why people project the kind of destructiveness Mike's OP is calling attention to. Especially, as noted by Kacey and Sukerkin, when shielded by anonymity. It's like road rage: people, safe in their car-fortresses, commit acts of unspeakable rudeness that they wouldn't dare do in face-to-face situations—and probably wouldn't even dream of doing in those situations. The key factor, I think, is that people are unhappy, probably because they feel that in critical respects they are powerless over crucial factors in their lives. And that gives them the incentive to try to exercise any excuse for power that they can come up with. Destructive power is still power, after all—it's cheap and commonplace, compared with the much rarer power that constitutes the gift of creativity; it's far easier to damage a work of art than to create one, eh? But a lot of people, in my experience, will take what they can get in this domain, and if all they're capable of is destructive negativity, they'll still do it. They're having their little moment in the sun, they're getting to have an impact... and for them, that's really all that counts. It's like the insignificant worm in Nashville who at the end of the movie shoots a world-famous country music performer, for no other reason than the desire to be famous. We've seen that in real life all too often, eh?

And it's not just MAs where you get this on internet discussion boards. I stumbled across a theology forum where the exchanges were as hostile and negative as anything we've seen posted by our worst MT trolls—but clothed in the language and style of discourse demanded by the culture of that forum. Still, you didn't have to do too much reading between the lines to see the contempt, hostility and sheer desire to make someone else look bad that was present in the exchange. All the witty sarcasm and would-be droll humor couldn't disguise the fundamental destructiveness of the posting in some of the threads.

It's never going to change, as long as there are unhappy people in the world who hate their lives, and transfer that hatred outward (since they can't really do anything with it internally).

IMO, there's nothing wrong with a really sharp, hard-edged debate and uncompromising criticism of weak ideas. We've all seen people who doggedly push ideas and arguments on behalf of those ideas which incorporate fallacious reasoning, factually mistaken claims, or unsupported background assumptions; bringing the weakness of such thinking to light isn't destructive—it keeps the bar raised to the necessary height that only the true story will be able to get over. Filtering out mistaken reasoning is a big part of why we know more know about how the universe works than we did a thousand years ago; it's crucial to progress. But you can tell in a heartbeat if the post you're looking at is aiming at that kind of critical vetting of other people's suggestions, or is instead simply heaping abuse on anything anyone else says—nastily and indiscriminately. The contrast is total. And when you encounter the latter, the best response is probably to heave a sigh of relief and pat yourself on the back for your luck in having been born who you are, rather than the sour, unhappy hostile person responsible for the post in question. Having to be that person is its own punishment.

 

[HKphooey]

My first dan certificate has the phrase...

Strength is in Unity

Words to live by.

 

[Marginal]

I think its clear where I'm going with this thread, so at this time, I'd like to hear from others. What are your views on people who have nothing better to do with their time, than put another art down?

That's what the ignore list is for.

Similar principle in real life, and on the net at large. It takes integrity to keep those impulses in check. (Hard to avoid some measure of identification with the group of folks you hang out with and in all likelihood, respect.) If you want to run around on the net etc ranting about how terrible another art or even just another org within your art is, well, that speaks volumes about your own insecurities and personal cowardice as well as your total lack of integrity.