Politics in M.A.

hkfuie

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This is an offshoot from the "My Grandmaster" thread on the TKD board.

There is just as much politics in Kungfu as there is in TKD. A good example would be the Wing Chun vs. Ving Tsun camps. We can even make it more personal. Are you certified to teach? Who certified you? What are their credentials? Which school or organization did your Sifu belong to? My point is politics is everywhere no matter how much you want to avoid it.


Yes. I was very happy to see an article about something similar in judo. Happy b/c I am glad it's not just TKD. We all have to deal with it.

So how do you deal? Where do you draw your line? How much do you pay someone else to other people you are good enough? Do you think you need that?

(This is not directed at miguksaram, this is to everyone. But thanks for bringing it up, miguksaram.)

For me, I have trained under a GM with all the bells and whistles and I have trained under a guy who really loves the art and is a constant seeker, always looking to add to his knowledge. Admittedly, I have a very small sample, but my impression of the certification group is that they do some minimum requirement list and get a piece of paper and they are finished learning. I would rather learn from the intrinsically motivated guy any day of the week. That's just my preference. So I have had three instructors of the second type. But that is my personality, anyway. I want to tromp through high brush, rather than take the sidewalk. :)
 

JTKenpo

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This is an offshoot from the "My Grandmaster" thread on the TKD board.




Yes. I was very happy to see an article about something similar in judo. Happy b/c I am glad it's not just TKD. We all have to deal with it.

So how do you deal? Where do you draw your line? How much do you pay someone else to other people you are good enough? Do you think you need that?

(This is not directed at miguksaram, this is to everyone. But thanks for bringing it up, miguksaram.)

For me, I have trained under a GM with all the bells and whistles and I have trained under a guy who really loves the art and is a constant seeker, always looking to add to his knowledge. Admittedly, I have a very small sample, but my impression of the certification group is that they do some minimum requirement list and get a piece of paper and they are finished learning. I would rather learn from the intrinsically motivated guy any day of the week. That's just my preference. So I have had three instructors of the second type. But that is my personality, anyway. I want to tromp through high brush, rather than take the sidewalk. :)

I'm a kenpo/kempo guy and my instructor used the word "kenpolitics" and thought that was hilarious. It NEVER ceases to amaze me.
 

jks9199

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Once you get a couple people involved, you got politics. Add a leadership structure, and you get power politics.

Where it bugs me is when the politics interfere with the training.
 

Tez3

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MMA in the UK has no ruling body at all, people say we should have one but all everybody can see is 'politics'! While it's still relatively small ( well we aren't a big country lol) I don't think we need one, all the promoters get on well, all the clubs and fighters know each other and any cowboys we've managed to weed out or they've done it themselves.
Everyone is dreading having to be legislated as people then start empire building and going on power trips. Most sports are good at grass roots level, it's when you start getting people who want to 'be in charge'that trouble starts. Nearly all of us here come from TMAs so are well versed in the MA politics scene.
 

Drac

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Once you get a couple people involved, you got politics. Add a leadership structure, and you get power politics.

Where it bugs me is when the politics interfere with the training.

Amen brother...
 

tshadowchaser

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When the back stabbing and lies got to be to much for me I left the organization that I had been in for over 30 years. I still loved my instructor and he will always be my instructor ( even if he is now dead) and we continued to be friends and close in the arts however I just could no longer put up with some of what I saw happening with in the organization.
Political maneuvering has killed off many organizations and caused way to many low level belts to think they ran things. Power or the perception of power through falsification of rank and the buying of rank be it with money or spying on others and falsifying of information to superiors is a cowards way of feeling that they are important.
 

Tez3

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Sadly I've seen this n other organisations other than MA, it's a human thing! I think the worse I encountered because of it's nature was when I ran a cub scout pack, I was Akela ( the leader - from Kiplings Jungle Book), I had a couple of helpers and the scouts were run by a nice chap who did a wonderful job. However we had a guy come in to run the scout group as a whole and oh my he was an empire builder! It became all about politics, he wanted to rise further in Scouting ( bear in mind we were all volunteers and weren't paid) get a 'higher' position, be invited to the Mayors ball, be known to the local great and good etc. It was all ego and backstabbing. Horrible for all of us, we were all driven away. The boys and young men didn't even come into his reckoning!
This type of person, once they get into any organisation creates havoc and pain, add in money and the sometimes 'macho' part of MA and it's never going to be nice.
 
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hkfuie

hkfuie

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I'm a kenpo/kempo guy and my instructor used the word "kenpolitics" and thought that was hilarious. It NEVER ceases to amaze me.

This is kind of off topic, but your "kenpolitics" reminded me of it. My husband and I used to train together and one of the other students always called it "marital arts" when we sparred!
 

bluekey88

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Politics is to MA as drug use is to rock n roll.

Like it or not, it's there.

Me? I tend to try to stay away from it and just train...however, I do try to undestadn it so as not to get "bit in the butt" despite my best efforts to stay out of the sandbox as it were.

Peace,
Erik
 

MJS

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This is an offshoot from the "My Grandmaster" thread on the TKD board.




Yes. I was very happy to see an article about something similar in judo. Happy b/c I am glad it's not just TKD. We all have to deal with it.

So how do you deal? Where do you draw your line? How much do you pay someone else to other people you are good enough? Do you think you need that?

(This is not directed at miguksaram, this is to everyone. But thanks for bringing it up, miguksaram.)

For me, I have trained under a GM with all the bells and whistles and I have trained under a guy who really loves the art and is a constant seeker, always looking to add to his knowledge. Admittedly, I have a very small sample, but my impression of the certification group is that they do some minimum requirement list and get a piece of paper and they are finished learning. I would rather learn from the intrinsically motivated guy any day of the week. That's just my preference. So I have had three instructors of the second type. But that is my personality, anyway. I want to tromp through high brush, rather than take the sidewalk. :)

Politics suck IMO, and I do my best to stay out of them. I think that even if the head of a style is still alive, the politics will still be there, but maybe on a smaller scale. However, when the head dies....look out!! Next thing you know you have people claiming that they were at the guys death bed, that he promised that they would be the heir to the art, people claiming that they were his personal student, when they haven't been active or done much training with others in the past few years. The list can go on and on and on.

If people want to splinter and form their own group, thats fine. But I do feel that people should have some respect, but unfortunately, we don't see that, all that often.

Like I said, I try to stay out of them. I train and work to improve myself and spread the art. If people would rather complain over the petty stuff, mostly stuff to make themselves sound more important while putting someone else down, knock yourself out. I know what I'll be doing. :)
 

YoungMan

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Anyone who thinks politics can be taken out of martial arts or any organized activity is delusional. Noone has ever succeeded and no one ever will. I don't mind politics personally. I avoid it when I can and use it to my advantage when it is advantageous to do so-just like everyone else.
 

terryl965

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Politics is like a bad cold, it comes and gos but over the long haul it wil kill you. My personal take is **** them all, let be an independent and do what I do train people. That is what we need of training and not stripes on a belt and somebody telling us it is there way or the highway.
 

Southwell

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Politics is like a bad cold, it comes and gos but over the long haul it wil kill you. My personal take is **** them all, let be an independent and do what I do train people. That is what we need of training and not stripes on a belt and somebody telling us it is there way or the highway.
I agree 100%
 

JTKenpo

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This is kind of off topic, but your "kenpolitics" reminded me of it. My husband and I used to train together and one of the other students always called it "marital arts" when we sparred!


Thats AWESOME!! Again off topic, sorry, but a friend of mine wanted to open a school in a town where I am and opened a bit of a can of worms. The zoning committee had nothing on martial arts in the way of what class did it fall under, but knew there could be no marital arts centers. Long story short the townies got their letters back together and he wasn't able to open where he would have liked.
 

grydth

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You want politics; back stabbing, denial and just plain nonsense... look into the Yang Taiji family

Yeah - look at how many issues exist on that today, and tell me how many were self-inflicted, either through politics or simple neglect.

More institutions are destroyed through internal corruption than external attacks.
 

JadecloudAlchemist

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I have seen people in organizations get promoted to teacher without even obtaining there first level!!

Now a days I try to stay out of politics and focus more on training.
 

Drac

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I have seen people in organizations get promoted to teacher without even obtaining there first level!!

Now a days I try to stay out of politics and focus more on training.

You and I both....A lot more people need to to the same...
 
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hkfuie

hkfuie

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Politics suck IMO, and I do my best to stay out of them. I think that even if the head of a style is still alive, the politics will still be there, but maybe on a smaller scale. However, when the head dies....look out!! Next thing you know you have people claiming that they were at the guys death bed, that he promised that they would be the heir to the art, people claiming that they were his personal student, when they haven't been active or done much training with others in the past few years. The list can go on and on and on.

Yeah, my instructor is not famous and I am kind of his top ranked student. Not because I am the best. By far there are students with more talent. I just have never quit, never taken time off from training, taught and continued to learn. Now I state it as "kind of" because that doesn't mean anything. I don't get anything from it except that he expects some things of me (like making arrangements for classes when he is visiting, which is a total PITA!)

My expectation is that if I want a name in martial arts, it must be MY name. (not looking to be Bruce Lee, just a good rep in my town) I gotta learn, I gotta train, I gotta be involved, I gotta DO SOMETHING. But I can see their attitudes the few times of year we get to train together, I hear things, etc. Grumble, grumble. I see it as people wanting something for nothing, just b/c they joined up earlier than I did or whatever. They don't train, just show up 2x per year to line up with their black belts on.

I think the more I expect some organization to do something FOR me, the less I will do for myself. It's just like government. Oh, I will not even get started on that one! Ha, Ha!!!

Thanks for everyone's replies. Politics is a part of m.a.'s I don't like, but I appreciate that everyone has to deal with it one way or another. :) And I thought it was just TKD! Hee, hee!
 
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hkfuie

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I avoid it when I can and use it to my advantage when it is advantageous to do so-just like everyone else.

Dang! I wish I was wily enough to use it for my own purposes. But it all just leaves me confuddled!

Have any good examples of how you used it for your own purposes?
 
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