Does it really always have to be about politics?

[shesulsa]

I wanna know. I asked this question of many people and get varying answers but this is what bothers me ...

Politics turns people off. It wastes time. It's a stupid game with stupid rules and serves no other purpose than to weenie-wag.

So I'm putting my neck on the line here and I want to know from all of you:

Color ranks and 1st & 2nd Dans: How do these politics help forward your school / art ? Develop you as an artist? Interact with others in the Martial Arts community?

3rd and higher: What do you do to quell the storm? Do you propogate politics in your own arena? If so, why? If not, why not? How do you think this helps forward the martial arts culture?

I OFTEN hear from people who quit because of the politics - interferes with training, etcetera. So ... if you're losing students because of petty disagreements, why do it?

Please tell me.

 

[Marginal]

I think a lot of it is inertia. If you train under one system, one instructor, you're going to get a dose of their own personal spin on history, perceptions of other practitioners, and aspects of how loyalty is perceived and/or acted upon in regards to one's interaction with those elements.

On the low end of the scale with color belts etc, it doesn't much matter since you're rarely asked to participate in the circles where this stuff hits the fan, and your opinion doesn't really count regardless. You're really just there to train. Whether or not your instructor likes another instructor/org etc has little impact on your progression or the art's quality.

Once you get into the higher ranks, you either agree, disagree but do/say nothing because of loyalty to an instructor, or you're still just there to train and don't care one way or another, or you leave. All of that furthers the political movements and reactions of others. I think 1, 2 and 3 there typically tend to fall under the "suppress your ego" classification rightly or wrongly.

Has "no politics" ever actually meant anythign other than "new politics"?

 

[MA-Caver]

Politics are unavoidable... whenever you get two or more people together of different opinions you got politics. It can be good politics or bad politics but it's still the same. If one is seeking popularity over another there is politics. When one wants to govern over another (setting rules and regs) it's politics.
It's about as unavoidable as Death and Taxes...


So that means that there are three certianties in life.

 

[ginshun]

I guess I don't run into the politics as much as most people.

Our school is small (1 teacher, between 5-10 students depending on who is around), and not part of any larger organization, so there really are no politics.

 

[Andrew Green]

No politics is possible, aka independent.

Most don't like to do that though, its seems easier to fly under someone elses banner then there own. Seems to be the curse of the Martial Arts, everyone always needs a name to throw at you, and if you won't throw one back they take it as a sign that you can't.

But it's easy to get rid of the politics.

- Drop whatever rank you hold.

- Drop any affililiation to any association you might have.

- Don't use other peoples names to promote yourself.

- Start thinking of students as training partners instead of "students"

- Dump any style name that refers to something specific, use something generic.

- Describe your training in terms of what you did, not who you did it under.

- Be prepared to offend a few materialistic idiots that in the real world judge people by the size of their house and the model of thier car...

- Have more fun in your training then ever before

 

[KenpoEMT]

It's about as unavoidable as Death and Taxes...

I misread this the first time through. I spent a couple of seconds trying to figure out what was so unavoidable about Texas :rofl:.



I think that the only place that you will run into politics at is in a studio ran by a 'professional' instructor. With regard to these full-time instructors, their martial art is their life's purpose: therefore, everything that goes on within their little sphere becomes incredibly important.

I don't think that you will see 'bad politics' as much from the man/woman that has a career but teaches a martial art in his/her spare time. For these people, it isn't about prestige or money, but it is solely for the love of what they teach.

In the final analysis, politics (IMO) is about nothing more than ego. Big, fat, hairy (or silky smooth ) EGO.

I think we can all do without it (...unless it's really silky :lol: ).

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

3rd and higher: What do you do to quell the storm? Do you propogate politics in your own arena? If so, why? If not, why not? How do you think this helps forward the martial arts culture?

To quell the storm I teach independently. I participate by teaching at several schools all of which are under different instructors/management but I teach on my own independently and promote my own students independently. I don't propogate politics as it only serves to control who's pocket the money goes to. People created this "Idea" that a belt is only legitimate if a "major organization" backs it and other people bought this idea because of our capitalist society. The likened it to the rule that our money is only as good as the government backing it. Originally in martial arts (research the history of several arts and you'll find the same thing) your belt/rank was given to you and backed by your instructor only. See Ed Parker's original certificate. It was signed by Mr. Chow, and ONLY Mr. Chow. Now people believe that their belt/rank is only real if a bunch of people they've never met sign their certificate. This is why those camp test fees are so high because each person on the test board makes money from it. My original instructor Mr. Jim Frederick in Towson, MD. explained it to me like this: "You're Black Belt test cost $150. $50 goes to me, $50 to Brian Heins and $50 to Jeff Speakman." The politics are all about money and who is incharge. And to that I raise my almighty flag. Which flag you ask?

This one as always. I don't see any elections so save the politics for someone else.

 

[CuongNhuka]

first of all, politics are just one of those things you cann't avoid. their still evil little monkeys though. second you do realise that in a way your creating more poltics, right?

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John

 

[rutherford]

I think it's stupid Tulisan got suspended. But I don't know the whole story.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Politics drives away new students who only want to learn an art, relax, or improve themselves. It's hard to stay focused on the task of learning when all the 'buzz' is about the enemy of the week, plots, plans, schemes, ego, attitude or just plain jockying for position. It creates an unproductive enviroment for everyone I think.

 

[cfr]

No politics is possible, aka independent.

But it's easy to get rid of the politics.

- Drop whatever rank you hold.

- Drop any affililiation to any association you might have.

- Don't use other peoples names to promote yourself.

- Start thinking of students as training partners instead of "students"

- Dump any style name that refers to something specific, use something generic.

- Describe your training in terms of what you did, not who you did it under.

- Be prepared to offend a few materialistic idiots that in the real world judge people by the size of their house and the model of thier car...

- Have more fun in your training then ever before

Awesome! I would imagine my instructor would agree 100%. We train in his garage. We have no belts. We are in no association. I call him by his first name. I was told to think of him as my training partner. He doesnt charge a dime for the training. Oddly enough, theres no politics at the gagrage I train in. I train in JKD, which I know has tons of politics. However, I have (in my very short JKD career) made every effort to stay out of them, and hopefully will continue to do so. I just want to train, have fun, and perhaps make a few friends along the way.

 

[Tgace]

This is an excellent article on this topic. Ive posted it here before.

http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/evolution_of_martial_arts_politi.htm

 

[arnisador]

It's inevitable. It happens in all aspects of life. There's no winning.

 

[searcher]

There are some really good posts here and I am impressed that nobody has gotten in a tissy. I am fro the school of "Politics are Un-avoidable." Even if you have no association with any group and even without rank, you will still have people who think you are taking their students that will wheel out their political agenda to take your students from you. That is the real problem, instructors competing for students. It is all about money.

 

[Raewyn]

I wanna know. I asked this question of many people and get varying answers but this is what bothers me ...

Politics turns people off. It wastes time. It's a stupid game with stupid rules and serves no other purpose than to weenie-wag.

So I'm putting my neck on the line here and I want to know from all of you:

Color ranks and 1st & 2nd Dans: How do these politics help forward your school / art ? Develop you as an artist? Interact with others in the Martial Arts community?

I OFTEN hear from people who quit because of the politics - interferes with training, etcetera. So ... if you're losing students because of petty disagreements, why do it?

Please tell me.

I try not to get into the politics of it all. Im there to train. Thats what i pay my fees for............ to learn martial arts...... to be the best that I can be, to be shown what I could do, and to be able to strive and obtain whatever goals i set or my instructor sets for me! Unfortunately politcs can effect your training if you let it. I for one tend it ignore it. Im not an insightful person as such and alot of things don't effect me as such... (i tend it to ingore it). I just assume that the instructor who is training me knows what they are doing and tend to go by what they are instructing. I suppose that could be a bad thing as being a beginnner you tend to listen to your instructor as they should know what they are doing.............. but the saying goes never assume because you make an *** out of you and me!!! I dont really know, its a hard call, I have loyalty to my club but Im not that closed minded that there coulde be a better or different way of doing things. Who knows, the mind boggles!!!!

 

[chinto01]

The beginning of my training came from a school where politics seemed to be the order of the day wether you were a kyu rank or a dan rank. This is one of the major reasons why I left. The more you did for the owner of the school and his wife the more attention you got in class and the faster you moved through the ranks. But once you stopped doing things for them the promotions stopped also especially if you got on their bad side. The funny thing is that we did not belong to an organization it was all internal politics created by the owners of the school showing favoritisim to people who helped them. This created divisions in the kyu ranks and the divisions in the dan ranks was even more noticible. In the end it caused nothing but trouble with alot of good black belts leaving their dojo. I was one of them fortunately who left and began training at a new dojo where I can honestly tell you there are no politics. We belong to an association that is governed by the grandmaster of the style in Okinawa and all of the U.S. branches pretty much keep to themselves. We have casual contact with them but as far as being in eachothers buisness it does not happen.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob