How do you teach gray belts humility when there's no yellow belts?

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Grandmaster
In my BJJ gym, gray belt is the "highest belt". At least for now. It's still a relatively new gym. So far we have plenty of gray-and-black belts and solid gray belts, but we don't really have any active yellow belts. I do think we'll have quite a few in a month, as our first official belt day is next month. We have promoted 3 kids to yellow belt, but one of them has quit and the other two are so irregular that they might as well have quit.

The issue we're running into right now is many of the gray and gray-and-black belts think they're the Gracie's Gift to Jiu-Jitsu. They're obviously top of their class, so they feel like there's nothing more for them to learn. Instead, they're just there to goof off and to show off. The problem is that we don't really have anyone to prove them wrong. There's the coaches, but the coaches are so much bigger (and play with kids gloves when rolling with someone half our size and a quarter our age). There aren't any yellow belts to beat them into submission.

Most of our white belts drill better than our gray belts at this point. They pay attention during technique and do what was instructed (at least, to the best of their ability). A few of the gray belts get to the drill and don't even know what technique was demonstrated. They only pay attention to the broadest strokes. For example, yesterday we were drilling a setup which starts as a flower sweep, transitions to an armbar from guard, and then you push them over and finish the armbar from on top. One of the gray belts simply did a flower sweep into mount, and then S-mount transition into an armbar.

Instead of treating rolls as an opportunity to learn, they either treat it as an opportunity to show off, or as an opportunity to smash someone with the same sequence over and over. Even worse, some of them have learned some tricks from the adult class that aren't appropriate in the kid's class (such as jackhammering your thigh on your opponent's face to convince them to give up an armbar).

My Professor made a comment at the end of class yesterday that the white belts are doing great because they're trying to learn, but that the gray belts need to learn humility. That gray might be in front of the line in our gym, but it's one of the lowest belts in jiu-jitsu and they still have a lot to learn. I think he made a good point. But knowing these kids it probably fell on deaf ears.

I realize this is going to be a very niche question, but for those who have found themselves in a similar situation, where you have a newer school and the highest ranking kids (relative to your school) think they're too good for instruction, how do you approach it? How do you teach kids humility when there really isn't anyone who can humble them (without a big asterisk such as "you're twice my size and an adult")?
 
Pay attention to the kids that are paying attention to the instruction. Make sure every one is safe... but if someone is not paying attention, don't help them improve their technique. Help the other kids. Either the kids not paying attention will realize that they are being left out and they will start paying attention or, the kids you are paying attention to will improve and start beating those that are not. When you white belts start regularly tapping your gray belts, maybe they might get the picture.

If you know some advanced moves that the gray belts want to learn.... grab the kids that are paying attention to the side and teach them those moves, while those not paying attention are drilling basic moves. Make it clear, that those who are paying attention are the ones that get the advanced moves.
 
I wonder if getting to an open mat from another school that does have yellow+ belts, or inviting such kids to join you for an open mat, could help them rediscover their humility...
I suggested to my Professor that we find some yellow belts from another school to come in and serve as mat enforcers.
 
If you know some advanced moves that the gray belts want to learn.... grab the kids that are paying attention to the side and teach them those moves, while those not paying attention are drilling basic moves. Make it clear, that those who are paying attention are the ones that get the advanced moves.
To an extent, I do this in the little kid's class. But they aren't self-aware enough to realize it.

We have a couple of girls who are really good friends, a gray-and-black and gray-and-white belt. They listen really well, follow directions, get lots of reps when drilling, and really try hard during the rolls. I'll give them extra details or extra variations.

We have a couple of cousins who are gray-and-black belts and quite often mess around. Not in the same way as the older kids this thread is normally aimed at. Just things like not being a good training partner (wrong posture for the drill), being lazy during rolls, taking forever to reset between reps in drills, etc. Far less frustrating than some of the other kids that age, but nowhere near as diligent as the others. These kids I'm working half the time to keep them on task, and the other half the time to help them with the same task that any of the white belts need help with.

The cousins don't realize that I'm teaching cool stuff or more advanced versions to the other kids. They're so wrapped up in what they're doing they don't even notice. I think the same might happen with these older gray belts.
 
I wonder if getting to an open mat from another school that does have yellow+ belts, or inviting such kids to join you for an open mat, could help them rediscover their humility...

Good idea, we often have and go to open mats which are often held to raise money for charities especially children's ones. It makes for a good atmosphere, all are there for a good cause which takes away a lot of the egos and unhealthy competitive thoughts lol. You do however get good turnouts and good grappling.
 
I suggested to my Professor that we find some yellow belts from another school to come in and serve as mat enforcers.
We did have one of our yellow belts come in yesterday. He's been pretty irregular lately so I don't really consider him an active student.

On the one hand, he would be good for humbling the gray belts that we have. On the other, he's also a cocky little turd himself and we'd just be kicking the humble can down the road.
 
I think that is the trick with humility. You don't teach them to be respectful of people better than them. But respectful of people worse.
I think that comes from knowing there's someone better than you, and how you feel against them.
 
I think that comes from knowing there's someone better than you, and how you feel against them.
That is not humility or respect.

The other students need respect, because they are people. They need respect, because they come to the dojo and train.... most people won't do that. They need respect because they are allowing you to use their body in order to learn how to do not nice things to people. They need respect, because they are trusting you to have the control not to hurt them in the process. They need respect because they are doing things that are hard for them to do and they are up to the challenge.

Fear of someone that can break you is neither humility or respect. Pity for someone that fears you is neither humility or respect.

We have a new student. This student is so far outside of their comfort zone that we have a very hard time getting them to punch. On day one, asking them to reach for their partner was a major issue... they started shaking. We have to break things down, so they can stop shaking and make a similar motion, so that we can train. After a few classes, they said this is very hard, very outside what they are used to. They wanted to know, if they joined, would it be okay, to step back when they get overwhelmed. This student, has signed up and joined... and is a regular student. They still will come to things that cause them to freeze and shake... and we work with them. Progress is being made. Everyone in the class has a huge amount of respect for this student, who is trying so hard to over come such a huge challenge. I hope that when I face something so hard that I freeze and start to tremble... that I have learned enough from this student, to push and find a way to do what needs to be done in that situation.

Everyone comes to train, with their own baggage and for their own reasons and facing their own challenges. Being a human being should be enough to deserve respect. But these people show up to train, baggage and challenges included... and they should be respected for doing so. Humility is recognizing that you have more to learn and that you can learn things from everyone... from the highest ranked professor to the newest student who just walked in the door. Share what you have, but also be humble enough to receive what is being given.
 
Who said anything about fear?

I meant knowing that you're not the best person in the room.
 
Respect and humility have nothing to do with who is the best person in the room.
No, but often the realization that you are not the best person in the room is when you realize that maybe there's a point to respect and humility.
 
It's realizing that all in the room are simply students, trying to better themselves, regardless of rank. skill or stage of development (which is everchanging, each at their own pace). In this, we are all the same. And one who today is last will someday be first.
 
Y'all are thinking of it from an already enlightened perspective. That's not the perspective that adolescents and pre-adolescents are going to have. That's pretty much the definition of being in (or near) adolescence.

They think they're the best and the smartest person in the room. Often it takes a humbling experience for them to realize that.
 
So, we (all people) do not like to say that we "fear" something. So we found it easier to say that we "respect" that thing.... that way we do not have to say that we "fear" that thing.

In American Football, the corner back will cover the wide receiver. Usually, the corner back will "respect" the wide receiver by not lining up on the line of scrimmage, but will line up 5 to 10 yards back, so that the wide receiver does not beat him deep for the touch down. When the corner back lines up close to the receiver we say that he is not giving him any "respect" or not giving him any buffer. What is really happening here is that the corner back fears the receiver can run right past him and get open. Or, the corner back does not fear the receiver out running him down the field, thus he gives less or no buffer. We use the term "respect" in place of "fear."

When a fighter fights a guy with a good left hook, he will "respect" that hook, by keeping his right hand in a high guard. The fighter trains to maintain that guard and to return is right hand to the guard as fast as possible to "respect" that left hook. In reality, the fighter "fears" the other guys left hook. He keeps his right hand in the high guard for "fear" that the other guy will connect with a left hook.

When we do things in response to the other guy being better, or having an advantage.... its a "fear" not "respect." We now interchange the two words so much as a society, that we even interchanged the concepts.

No, but often the realization that you are not the best person in the room is when you realize that maybe there's a point to respect and humility.
No.... when you realize that you are not the best in the room, you may change your behavior or your attitude... but that is not "respect" for those that are better than you. And it certainly is not humility. You may be better than someone... you may make them "fear" you.... but you can never make them "respect" you. "Respect" can only be given by free will. "Respect" can never be earned, or owed.... you can demand it all you want... and people may pretend to give it to you.... but real "respect" only comes from someone using their free will to give that "respect."

I suggested to my Professor that we find some yellow belts from another school to come in and serve as mat enforcers.
If you are bringing in "mat enforcers," what are they there to do? You bring in these "mat enforcers" to tap out the gray belts and show them their true place.... it is not "respect" that they will have for the enforcers.... it will be "fear." When the enforcers are gone, the "fear" will be gone, and the behavior you don't want will return.... because it was not "respect."

Drop bear had it right.... teach them to "respect" each other, regardless of rank. "Respect" them because they are people, because they come to train, because they are challenging themselves. When they "respect" their partners and "respect" what they are studying and training.. they will change.

"Humility" is an entirely different thing. Being humble, is essentially being teachable, correctable, lacking in ego.... That means appreciating when a lower rank student offers you advice or feedback, instead of pointing out your rank. It means seeing everyone in the room as your superior, regardless of your current rank with respect to theirs. That is what the "bowing in" to your partner or the "fist bump and hand slap" with your partner is when you pair up. You are saying: "Will you do me the honor of allowing me to practice with you?" That is from the lower rank to the upper, but also from the upper rank to the lower. It's an attitude thing.... and it should change how we deal with each other.

When I go to clinics and seminars where multiple martial arts are getting together... you can really see who has "respect" and "humility." People come in wearing their street clothes. You get to see how they interact with each other, before the belts come on. It is refreshing to see some high ranking professor come in as a regular person, being kind to those who he meets for the first time... and then when the belts come out, he treats those same people with the same "respect" as he did before the belts came out, even though some are white belts and some are black, red or whatever. You see many people change the behavior, even among the professors and masters.... Those that show that true respect of others, becomes very apparent.
 
Y'all are thinking of it from an already enlightened perspective. That's not the perspective that adolescents and pre-adolescents are going to have. That's pretty much the definition of being in (or near) adolescence.

They think they're the best and the smartest person in the room. Often it takes a humbling experience for them to realize that.
Not really. Unenlightened adolescents and pre-adolescents need "respect" as well. That humbling experience teaches them to be more careful about when they mess around and who they mess around with.... but it does not give them "humility" or teach them "respect."

As the adult, show them how to be humble and respect those lower ranked, and lower skilled than you. Show that to the problem kids, show that to the newest whitest belt on the mat. Let everyone know this is how we treat each other. It takes time, but will have much greater effect than finding someone their own age and size to thump them. That has never once taught real "respect" or "humility." It has and does teach "fear."
 
They think they're the best and the smartest person in the room.
Not when I'm teaching.
Often it takes a humbling experienc e for them to realize that.
I'm happy to supply those experiences. :)

It all has to do with the environment the instructor fosters: Relaxed but firm discipline and sense of belonging to the dojo, a place to set aside ego and all else from the outside.
 
If they're acting up, and not doing what they're supposed to be doing, I see one of two solutions being practical. Solution 1: They need more exercise... Wear their tails out with exercises rather than techniques or rolling. If they can't get "good" -- they can get strong. Solution 2: Sit them down. They get to sit on the sideline and watch if they can't do what they're expected to do.
 
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