My point about going a mile distance

[PhotonGuy]

If I remember correctly I believe you were using this to justify your disagreement with an old martial arts story about mastery and you were missing the point then and you still are as it applies to martial arts. As for running vs. walking.... It would depend on why you are going the mile.

Missing the point? And what point was that? And somebody going a mile might choose to walk it, as you said it depends on why they're walking it, that's why the 100 yard dash would be a better example.

 

[drop bear]

A terry pratchet quote i quite like.

“Witches are naturally nosy,” said Miss Tick, standing up. “Well, I must go. I hope we shall meet again. I will give you some free advice, though.”
“Will it cost me anything?”
“What? I just said it was free!” said Miss Tick.
“Yes, but my father said that free advice often turns out to be expensive,” said Tiffany.
Miss Tick sniffed. “You could say this advice is priceless,” she said, “Are you listening?”
“Yes,” said Tiffany.
“Good. Now...if you trust in yourself...”
“Yes?”
“...and believe in your dreams...”
“Yes?”
“...and follow your star...” Miss Tick went on.
“Yes?”
“...you’ll still be beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren’t so lazy. Goodbye.

 

[Chris Parker]

Sometime back I talked about if you had a mile distance you had to go and that if you ran the mile instead of just walking it that you would finish your mile sooner although you would have to work harder because running is harder work than walking. Some people said that for whatever reason they might not want to run the mile. Well what I was trying to say is that if you've got to get something done, working harder will get it done sooner and you save time, the tradeoff is that you have to work harder.

We all understood what you were trying to say. We were telling you that your idea wasn't actually applicable to martial arts the way you were intending it. It wasn't that we didn't understand, it's that it was not correct.

And if I repeat myself and keep saying the same thing over and over again well I thought patience was important in the martial arts, so we should use patience here.

Yes, patience can be important, but patience is not the same thing as putting yourself through the same misery over and over with no development, improvement, or purpose. In other words, you typing out the same questions and ideas over and over again is not a case of "patience".

Sure you will arrive but at a later time. Maybe you want to arrive at the destination and you want to arrive by a particular time.

Yeah… once again, we got what you were meaning, it just wasn't really applicable the way you meant it.

A 100 yard dash would've been a better example to use than a mile.

Why? That simply makes it a race… which, again, is absolutely not anything to do with what you've been talking about.

Sometimes you might want to be late. As you said you don't want to be hot and sweaty and you don't have to wait in a long line for food. But you don't want to be too late otherwise there might not be any food left. Its all in the timing.

Thing is… this also has nothing to do with your ideas… it was K-man showing an alternate viewpoint by using humour… and was not a serious take on your comments.

There are some things that you can't rush otherwise you will ruin it and it will take longer. But, depending on what it is sometimes working harder will get you to your destination sooner.

Again, not applicable to the concept of martial arts you've been applying it to.

And sometimes its good to look at the past, that's why they teach history in school.

You look to the past, and study history, in order to learn from it… so you don't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

Missing the point? And what point was that? And somebody going a mile might choose to walk it, as you said it depends on why they're walking it, that's why the 100 yard dash would be a better example.

You've had it explained to you time and time again… but, broadly, martial arts are not a time-line pursuit, the idea of doing things to a schedule doesn't really work, applying the concept of a race is to entirely miss the point, and constantly repeating the same threads over and over again is not helping… it is not because you haven't gotten your point across, it's because we have understood your point, but it's been largely inaccurate.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Missing the point? And what point was that? And somebody going a mile might choose to walk it, as you said it depends on why they're walking it, that's why the 100 yard dash would be a better example.

I think that has been done to death in that post already so if you like go read it and refresh your memory. As for the 100 yard dash, that is still not "why" and now you have changed it from a mile to a 100 yard dash..... and you are still missing the point. But let me see if I can at least make myself clear to others.

By the way I think Chris was pretty clear but I will post at least some of what I am talking about...now..one final time to your OP

Sometime back I talked about if you had a mile distance you had to go and that if you ran the mile instead of just walking it that you would finish your mile sooner although you would have to work harder because running is harder work than walking. Some people said that for whatever reason they might not want to run the mile. Well what I was trying to say is that if you've got to get something done, working harder will get it done sooner and you save time, the tradeoff is that you have to work harder.
And if I repeat myself and keep saying the same thing over and over again well I thought patience was important in the martial arts, so we should use patience here.

Using your second example of a 100 yard dash and using running a mile to train...although training a mile is not the same as training a 100 yard dash.....

If I wanted to complete in a 100 yard dash and I decided that running was the way to go, and that I wanted to get to my goal as fast a possible (thereby only focusing on the goal) and, based on what you are saying, running is working harder so I will attain my goal faster. Add to that I am now training for a 100 yard dash so I need to run all out, as fast as possible, because that is harder work than a simple run. Now I go out to my driveway and I am off..... I would be lucky if I got to the end of my driveway...I admit I have a long driveway, but not that long. Now that I have gone all out I am laying somewhere in my driveway because my knees gave out and now my goal focused "hard work" (aka kung fu) has caused me roughly a 6 months setback because I am now in knee braces and walking with a cane again. And if I had gone to a trainer in the beginning and told him..."NO walking for me, I'm running, it is harder and will get me there quicker"... any good, self respecting trainer would have told me no... you need to build to it...basically you need to know how to walk before you can run

Now if I decide to run a 100 yard dash and I started by walking to build my knees and doing some other exercises I would likely be ready in 6 months to run the 100 yard dash. But my focus is not the 100 yard dash it is the work I need to do to get there. And it is very likely that walking, strengthening and running is what any trainer (teacher, sifu, sensei) would have me do. Were as your way would likely take me a year, or more.

To be honest I don't think your way is harder, I think it is looking for the easy way out or a quick fix. I think it is not wanting to do the work necessary to attain a goal that comes from lack of patience.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think that has been done to death in that post already so if you like go read it and refresh your memory. As for the 100 yard dash, that is still not "why" and now you have changed it from a mile to a 100 yard dash..... and you are still missing the point. But let me see if I can at least make myself clear to others.

By the way I think Chris was pretty clear but I will post at least some of what I am talking about...now..one final time to your OP



Using your second example of a 100 yard dash and using running a mile to train...although training a mile is not the same as training a 100 yard dash.....

If I wanted to complete in a 100 yard dash and I decided that running was the way to go, and that I wanted to get to my goal as fast a possible (thereby only focusing on the goal) and, based on what you are saying, running is working harder so I will attain my goal faster. Add to that I am now training for a 100 yard dash so I need to run all out, as fast as possible, because that is harder work than a simple run. Now I go out to my driveway and I am off..... I would be lucky if I got to the end of my driveway...I admit I have a long driveway, but not that long. Now that I have gone all out I am laying somewhere in my driveway because my knees gave out and now my goal focused "hard work" (aka kung fu) has caused me roughly a 6 months setback because I am now in knee braces and walking with a cane again. And if I had gone to a trainer in the beginning and told him..."NO walking for me, I'm running, it is harder and will get me there quicker"... any good, self respecting trainer would have told me no... you need to build to it...basically you need to know how to walk before you can run

Now if I decide to run a 100 yard dash and I started by walking to build my knees and doing some other exercises I would likely be ready in 6 months to run the 100 yard dash. But my focus is not the 100 yard dash it is the work I need to do to get there. And it is very likely that walking, strengthening and running is what any trainer (teacher, sifu, sensei) would have me do. Were as your way would likely take me a year, or more.

To be honest I don't think your way is harder, I think it is looking for the easy way out or a quick fix. I think it is not wanting to do the work necessary to attain a goal that comes from lack of patience.

Well you also have to train smart. You don't want to try running a 100 yard dash before you're ready otherwise you'll just hurt yourself. But, you still have to do the work to build up your strength, skill, and speed to be able to do the 100 yard dash and if you train hard, within reason, you will be able to do it faster.

 

[ballen0351]

100 is too far I dont like walking to my mailbox

 

[PhotonGuy]

100 is too far I dont like walking to my mailbox

Martial arts requires you to be in good shape, if you don't like walking to your mailbox you need to get in better shape.

 

[ballen0351]

Martial arts requires you to be in good shape,.

says who

 

[PhotonGuy]

says who

Any good instructor will tell you that in order for martial arts to be effective you have to be in good shape, technique alone will not make you effective.

 

[Transk53]

Sometime back I talked about if you had a mile distance you had to go and that if you ran the mile instead of just walking it that you would finish your mile sooner although you would have to work harder because running is harder work than walking. Some people said that for whatever reason they might not want to run the mile. Well what I was trying to say is that if you've got to get something done, working harder will get it done sooner and you save time, the tradeoff is that you have to work harder.

And if I repeat myself and keep saying the same thing over and over again well I thought patience was important in the martial arts, so we should use patience here.

Economy of movement works here. Working hard does not necessarily mean more output. The trick is to modify the stride. This applies to more than just running. Yeah most people would love to run a mile if they are told to take twenty minutes. Tell them you have four, most will baulk ta that. Some though, will modify the stride at the same workload. Economy of movement. It also takes great patience to do this, hence I agree with you, most will not. You obviously have a very patient mind, mine is chaos, but I see the symmetry in the thinking.

 

[ballen0351]

Any good instructor will tell you that in order for martial arts to be effective you have to be in good shape, technique alone will not make you effective.

nonsense

 

[K-man]

Any good instructor will tell you that in order for martial arts to be effective you have to be in good shape, technique alone will not make you effective.

Being in 'good shape' is relative. Can some one at 65 be in 'good shape' compared to someone in 'good shape' at 35? In most cases the 35 year old will be in better shape. So how does the 65 year old cope against the 35 year old?

 

[Tez3]

Being in 'good shape' is relative. Can some one at 65 be in 'good shape' compared to someone in 'good shape' at 35? In most cases the 35 year old will be in better shape. So how does the 65 year old cope against the 35 year old?

Old guy wins cos old and sneaky will beat young and fit every time!

 

[K-man]

Old guy wins cos old and sneaky will beat young and fit every time!

And look on 'young and fit's face as he hits the deck is priceless!

 

[Transk53]

Looks like no dares to answer that

 

[PhotonGuy]

nonsense

If you really believe that than I am starting to doubt if you have much of any experience in the martial arts.

 

[ballen0351]

If you really believe that than I am starting to doubt if you have much of any experience in the martial arts.

Nonsensical

 

[PhotonGuy]

Being in 'good shape' is relative. Can some one at 65 be in 'good shape' compared to someone in 'good shape' at 35? In most cases the 35 year old will be in better shape. So how does the 65 year old cope against the 35 year old?

That depends. I know this guy who had grandparents who worked on a farm and in their 80s they were in better shape than lots of people are in their 40s. Much of that was because they were doing lots of manual labor which you do if you you do farm work. A couple of years ago there was a 46 year old man who got first place in some kind of ultra running competition, beating out all these people in their teens and twenties. Much of it has to do with exercising and keeping in good shape. Dying is inevitable we all die sometime or another, but you can be fit and take it to the grave if you work at it.
Now, being a good fighter is not simply a contest of whose the most fit. Technique also plays a role. I know a case of a man in his 60s who was attacked by three troublemakers in their late teens or early twenties. He took down two of them, the third one outran him. A less fit person can beat a more fit person with superior technique, skill, and strategy. You still do need to be in relatively good shape though, you can have good technique but you need gunpowder behind the technique to give it power, that's where being in good shape comes in.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Old guy wins cos old and sneaky will beat young and fit every time!

How about old, sneaky, and fit!

 

[Blindside]

Any good instructor will tell you that in order for martial arts to be effective you have to be in good shape, technique alone will not make you effective.

This is another example of you speaking in absolutes again; "any good instructor" means that any instructor that says anything other is automatically "not good." Is that really what you meant?