Martial arts testing and society today

[CB Jones]

What about the lazy smart guy or the hard working guy who isn't smart?

I think typically a smart hard worker guys will have higher percentage of success than the lazy smart guys or the hardworking dumb guy.

 

[Steve]

Peewee sports I know nothing about. But this has been happening in some schools and some sports events (I don't know about leagues). And some of the advice that came out in pop-psych a generation ago led to some parents using this approach, too.

Sure. The point is that I agree that resilience iis lacking in some young adults but I'm not convinced its because they received participation ribbons.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think typically a smart hard worker guys will have higher percentage of success than the lazy smart guys or the hardworking dumb guy.

Yes, if you combine them, they will. Unless they have lousy emotional intelligence (which, admittedly, overlaps a bit with "hard working" in the self-management area).

 

[drop bear]

Peewee sports I know nothing about. But this has been happening in some schools and some sports events (I don't know about leagues). And some of the advice that came out in pop-psych a generation ago led to some parents using this approach, too.

The premis of the OP is a very right wing rant about the problems of society. We get a nut job called Pauline Hanson do this bang on all the time. Just makes stuff like this up.

So it might be happening. It might not. But just because people are complaining about it. Does not necessarily mean it is a real thing.

Actually lets move it off modern politics and go to a quote from socrates.(Or mabye not)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sure. The point is that I agree that resilience iis lacking in some young adults but I'm not convinced its because they received participation ribbons.

One participation ribbon won't do it. But if they continually are rewarded for just whatever they do, it devalues (to them) any rewards for actual effort and accomplishment. The net result is nearly the same as not rewarding any of it.

 

[CB Jones]

Sure. The point is that I agree that resilience iis lacking in some young adults but I'm not convinced its because they received participation ribbons.

I think today's society sometimes fails to teach certain lessons due to being afraid of feelings.

We don't require as much work for reward and we impart a feeling of entitlement.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The premis of the OP is a very right wing rant about the problems of society. We get a nut job cqlled Pauline Hanson do this bang on all the time. Just makes stuff like this up.

So it might be happening. It might not. But just because people are complaining about it. Does not necessarily mean it is a real thing.

Actually lets move it off modern politics and go to a quote from socrates.(Or mabye not)

"Kids these days" is definitely part of the problem - meaning part of what we (us, the non-kids) see is just our perception. But there is evidence in psychological research to support the premise that there's a larger problem in this area than in the past.

 

[drop bear]

"Kids these days" is definitely part of the problem - meaning part of what we (us, the non-kids) see is just our perception. But there is evidence in psychological research to support the premise that there's a larger problem in this area than in the past.

If there is actual evidence then there is actual evidence.

By the way what martial art did Socrates endorce?

 

[tubby]

Can you point me to a link to any organized sport league for a child over 8 that doesn't keep score or time races? I've seen things like this for kindergarteners but, like most things, I think its grossly exaggerated.

i coach junior aussie rules and they dont keep score until under 11s. but even the under 5s know who won even though they cant add the scores up. we've had cases where older kids leagues refuse to record blowout scores. the kids know who got flogged, the paperwork doesnt change that at all.

they still get a good lesson in hard work though whatever the rule on scores. the rules work in this game to share the ball but the kids who work hard still get it more. and because nothing has the opportunity to make you look silly like trying to catch a bouncing oval ball they learn that things dont go your say even if you do everything right. but keep trying and it will go your way more than if it doesnt.

 

[drop bear]

It is definitely not the attitude we have in our gym.

"Excuses are a way for people to hide from their own insecurities. If you never put 100% in then you always have an excuse for failure.

It's better to try and fail then never to have tried at all.

Courage is putting in everything you have falling short then finding the determination to pick yourself up and claw, fight and drag yourself forward that's how you become a better version of yourself.

Through adversity can you find the kinda person you truly are and what your capable of. Happy Sunday"

Anton Zafir.

By the way. Anton is a school teacher. So I will leave it up to you to guess how many participation ribbons get handed out.

 

[Hyoho]

I really had no idea how far this belt system in the West had drifted away from the original concept. The concept of Budo is a "community activity". To leave your politics, religion whatever outside the door and practice as a group. Belt are NOT an award. they are a mark of what level you have managed to acheive. In so saying you look at the acheivment people have made not what they cant do. If they dont get it? Its simple. They try again until they do.

 

[jks9199]

Folks,
Some of this discussion is trending towards political/sociopolitical stuff. Keep it to the martial arts, or even sports, ok?

jks9199
Administrator

 

[Jenna]

If there is actual evidence then there is actual evidence.

By the way what martial art did Socrates endorce?

It was not Socrates say, I know that I know nothing? So see? You cannot trust that guy Plus he was not smarter than poison so

 

[DaveB]

The tone and content of the post.

But clearly nothing you can concretely argue with. Fair enough.

 

[DaveB]

Then what is a better predictor than intelligence and conscientiousness?

I'm putting my money on the hardworking smart guy over the lazy dumbarse...everytime.

Donald Trump.

George w Bush.

Cara Delevigne.

The entire British government.

Who you know and the home you were born into are huge predictors of success.

The intelligence thing falls down at societies top level. A caveat often forgotten when quoted by the political right.

 

[DaveB]

Peewee sports I know nothing about. But this has been happening in some schools and some sports events (I don't know about leagues). And some of the advice that came out in pop-psych a generation ago led to some parents using this approach, too.

What about when the advice was by peer reviewed psychologists and said the same things?

 

[DaveB]

The premis of the OP is a very right wing rant about the problems of society. We get a nut job called Pauline Hanson do this bang on all the time. Just makes stuff like this up.

So it might be happening. It might not. But just because people are complaining about it. Does not necessarily mean it is a real thing.

Actually lets move it off modern politics and go to a quote from socrates.(Or mabye not)

As I said in my post, it is a tale as old as time. Old ways good, new ways bad.

 

[DaveB]

One participation ribbon won't do it. But if they continually are rewarded for just whatever they do, it devalues (to them) any rewards for actual effort and accomplishment. The net result is nearly the same as not rewarding any of it.

But who is doing that???

Where are these morons rewarding a lack of effort at every step in a child's life???

We only ever see snippets; snapshots of a life yet we think we know it all.
One school sports day or karate grading is not the sum total of a grown adults emotional and social education.

What you do with a 5 year old or 7 year old is not what happens with a 10 yr old or 13 yr old. How the parents build on those experiences and the lessons they teach their children are much much more important than whether a child, who can see full well that he's lost the race, gets a participation award.

The whole premise of this thread is baloney and this is why (besides the fact that parenting matters . The hard austere beat your kids into shape with repeated minor emotional trauma philosophy happened. And it produced a generation of parents who according to you are self entitled and who dont think their kids should have to work for anything. They have rejected it in favour of softer more emotionally friendly methods.

We're it the self evidently superior way it would have produced parents who had no interest in ensuring rewards that weren't earned and perpetuated it's self to the next generation and been reinforced by the advances in behavioural science and child psychology.

Yet that's not what happened.

 

[DaveB]

I think today's society sometimes fails to teach certain lessons due to being afraid of feelings.

We don't require as much work for reward and we impart a feeling of entitlement.

Which lessons???
What rewards require less work?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But clearly nothing you can concretely argue with. Fair enough.

Nothing I felt necessary to argue with. Your statement makes an assumption without evidence.