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[Kframe]

I don't understand why your are in favor of victim creation laws. All that stuff your saying about getting killed by a family member is your Party line. So you counter our party line with yours and expect that to prove your point? Im sorry but I have a god given right to defend my family and ill use what ever tools I can find to do so. All your gun laws will have no effect on the criminals only law abiding citizens. The criminals will still get there guns, but this time the good guys wont have them. Honestly if you don't like the 2nd amendment, stop trying to circumvent it, and actually do something and Work to Repeal it. Untill that happens, the circle of BULL Crap with our two parties will continue. Your party comes to power, and enacts tough, rights shattering gun laws. Our party down the line comes to power, and either repeals your parties laws(not just the gun laws) or just sits there while the sunset clock ticks down.. Then your party gets back into power and sets forth reenacting all its former laws and handouts. Then we get elected and start the cycle over. All the while Nothing is getting done anywere, because were to busy countering your parties attacks on our constitutional and god given rights.(and no that term is not up for debate with me either)


I love the smell of victim creation in the morning..

 

[SENC-33]

That's the party line of the NRA I realize, but when one considers that the overwhelming majority of guns used in illegal activities were purchased legally, then that begins to color that perception.

Also, you are more likely to have family member shoot you, or have an accident, than you are to have some wide eyed psychopath attack you. But of course, that interferes with the great 'merican myth. I get to thankfully, lobby frequently on the Hill for healthcare issues (I was involved in the ACA, specifically, the ACO portion), and when asked about gun control, am happy to share my thoughts.

But this is completely off topic. I was just agreeing with Chris.

Mike

True the majority of guns used in crimes are purchased legally. Harsh gun laws wont deter a criminal from obtaining one illegally and never will. If a family member kills another or an accident occurs why should the gun get the blame?

 

[SENC-33]

I don't understand why your are in favor of victim creation laws. All that stuff your saying about getting killed by a family member is your Party line. So you counter our party line with yours and expect that to prove your point? Im sorry but I have a god given right to defend my family and ill use what ever tools I can find to do so. All your gun laws will have no effect on the criminals only law abiding citizens. The criminals will still get there guns, but this time the good guys wont have them. Honestly if you don't like the 2nd amendment, stop trying to circumvent it, and actually do something and Work to Repeal it. Untill that happens, the circle of BULL Crap with our two parties will continue. Your party comes to power, and enacts tough, rights shattering gun laws. Our party down the line comes to power, and either repeals your parties laws(not just the gun laws) or just sits there while the sunset clock ticks down.. Then your party gets back into power and sets forth reenacting all its former laws and handouts. Then we get elected and start the cycle over. All the while Nothing is getting done anywere, because were to busy countering your parties attacks on our constitutional and god given rights.(and no that term is not up for debate with me either)


I love the smell of victim creation in the morning..

I hope their is never a run on people killing with baseball bats. It would ruin another cherished American tradition......

 

[Spinedoc]

True the majority of guns used in crimes are purchased legally. Harsh gun laws wont deter a criminal from obtaining one illegally and never will. If a family member kills another or an accident occurs why should the gun get the blame?

We'll agree to disagree completely on this one.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/09/gun-control

 

[tkizzle05]

Again, thank you for your opinion, its welcomed.

I've actually been in 3 street fights, fun but dangerous... Luckily there were no weapons involved usually in situations like that... Usually the case is the other guy retaliates with gun shots because of shame.
I've actually lost a couple of my guys from gang violence starting from a fight ending in gun fire.

I was never a thug, but always in the wrong place in the wrong time.
In one particular fight though I wasnt expecting any of it, the dude tied to punk me out because I looked more harmless than anyone else... I ignored him of course, but dude invaded my personal space... at that time my guy shouted "just whoop his *** Tim" adrenaline began to pump through my body and I handed my dude my car keys (the guy is shouting at the side of my face the entire time) and as I began to take out my earrings... BOOM a punch, the dude snuck me. I didn't fall or stagger or anything just wasnt expected... obviously... SO then I turn towards him and he throws another punch but I grabbed him by the wrist and yanked him towards me and we ended up in a scuffle... I had him in some kind of "street clinch" and I was just letting him have it, so he tries to escape but I grabbed him by his shirt and threw him towards the side of the car, I mercilessly gave him 2 haymakers (left,right) before he ducked and scrambled to this girls front lawn, I then tackled dude... and was in a street mount??? I was done at this point... tired... no cardio/stamina... The dude reached out and scrached the side of my face then I threw a right punch that had to hurt, I threw another one and missed... because I was so tired. His dude tried to jump in but man it was like 8 of us so they let him have it...

Now, thats just one example... but I had 2 other fights the other in a college dormitory a bully type guy again... picked on me because I am the happy go lucky always smiling nice guy that takes a lot of crap. Long story short, he was making fun of me I tried to leave the room, he started shoving me then I snapped... I was in fight mode and then all of the sudden he didn't want to fight, but its waaaay too late at this point. He was 5'11 225 lbs mind you we were all college football players but at that time I was 5'9 185lbs but my strength was greater than his... anyways... I remember him pushing me back as I was stalking him, then he wrapped me up a bear hug type, but my arms were to my side... he then proceeded to slam me, but somehow IDK the dudes in the dorm didn't know how I escaped it and landed on him... well at this point, im in street mount again... then the ground and pound began... I was not stopping so his dude came and pushed me off... the bad part about it was after the fight he came back and hit me with a massive haymaker that floored me, my back was turned and i was in mid conversation with my guy Dante and all I remember is a quick flash and everything went in slow motion... I remember falling into Dante's stack of nike shoe boxes and then falling to the floor... face flat... but I got up instantly but I was dazed and couldn't remember what just happened... I was pissed because he ran and locked himself in his room after he did that, but I was even more pissed off at my "boys" for not stepping in... They claim they were all shocked and didnt expect it wither, but I was just angry at the time...

Now from those 2 experiences the only reason I had advantages was because of my athleticism and strength even though it wasn't planned, my body triggered its defense/survival mode...

I was good until I got knocked down which again no one can prepare you for...

So for me, I need to stay in physical shape, what if I wasn't strong physically in those situations... then what????
What if I wasn't athletic(God-Given)

I'm saying, I know what works for my body, been in it for 27yrs now and the better shape I am in the healthier I am in overall...
I will do weapons training, but again... there were no weapons available to me in those 2 situations so I had only to rely on my physical attributes...

 

[Spinedoc]

Again, thank you for your opinion, its welcomed.

I've actually been in 3 street fights, fun but dangerous... Luckily there were no weapons involved usually in situations like that... Usually the case is the other guy retaliates with gun shots because of shame.
I've actually lost a couple of my guys from gang violence starting from a fight ending in gun fire.

I was never a thug, but always in the wrong place in the wrong time.
In one particular fight though I wasnt expecting any of it, the dude tied to punk me out because I looked more harmless than anyone else... I ignored him of course, but dude invaded my personal space... at that time my guy shouted "just whoop his *** Tim" adrenaline began to pump through my body and I handed my dude my car keys (the guy is shouting at the side of my face the entire time) and as I began to take out my earrings... BOOM a punch, the dude snuck me. I didn't fall or stagger or anything just wasnt expected... obviously... SO then I turn towards him and he throws another punch but I grabbed him by the wrist and yanked him towards me and we ended up in a scuffle... I had him in some kind of "street clinch" and I was just letting him have it, so he tries to escape but I grabbed him by his shirt and threw him towards the side of the car, I mercilessly gave him 2 haymakers (left,right) before he ducked and scrambled to this girls front lawn, I then tackled dude... and was in a street mount??? I was done at this point... tired... no cardio/stamina... The dude reached out and scrached the side of my face then I threw a right punch that had to hurt, I threw another one and missed... because I was so tired. His dude tried to jump in but man it was like 8 of us so they let him have it...

Now, thats just one example... but I had 2 other fights the other in a college dormitory a bully type guy again... picked on me because I am the happy go lucky always smiling nice guy that takes a lot of crap. Long story short, he was making fun of me I tried to leave the room, he started shoving me then I snapped... I was in fight mode and then all of the sudden he didn't want to fight, but its waaaay too late at this point. He was 5'11 225 lbs mind you we were all college football players but at that time I was 5'9 185lbs but my strength was greater than his... anyways... I remember him pushing me back as I was stalking him, then he wrapped me up a bear hug type, but my arms were to my side... he then proceeded to slam me, but somehow IDK the dudes in the dorm didn't know how I escaped it and landed on him... well at this point, im in street mount again... then the ground and pound began... I was not stopping so his dude came and pushed me off... the bad part about it was after the fight he came back and hit me with a massive haymaker that floored me, my back was turned and i was in mid conversation with my guy Dante and all I remember is a quick flash and everything went in slow motion... I remember falling into Dante's stack of nike shoe boxes and then falling to the floor... face flat... but I got up instantly but I was dazed and couldn't remember what just happened... I was pissed because he ran and locked himself in his room after he did that, but I was even more pissed off at my "boys" for not stepping in... They claim they were all shocked and didnt expect it wither, but I was just angry at the time...

Now from those 2 experiences the only reason I had advantages was because of my athleticism and strength even though it wasn't planned, my body triggered its defense/survival mode...

No, you had an endorphin surge. The fight or flight triggering you mentioned is very real, but unless you have trained, it has little to do with your athleticism, and much less to do with your strength.

I was good until I got knocked down which again no one can prepare you for...

Not true at all. Some of use train specifically to throw people down, and how to get up from being down....others train exactly what to do when they are on the ground.....

So for me, I need to stay in physical shape, what if I wasn't strong physically in those situations... then what????
What if I wasn't athletic(God-Given)

I'm saying, I know what works for my body, been in it for 27yrs now and the better shape I am in the healthier I am in overall...
I will do weapons training, but again... there were no weapons available to me in those 2 situations so I had only to rely on my physical attributes...

You'd be surprised at how much self defense has nothing to do with your strength or fitness.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I used the term because you did, though. I was responding directly to your quote, where you asked how you could test self defence skill without sport or competition...

I used that term "self-defense" because OP did. I would never use that term myself.

I'm not looking into sports or competition, but purely self-defense as a whole.

Without the "sport" and "competition" environment, how can you "test" your self-defense skill?

 

[Chris Parker]

Tougher gun laws = Harder for "law abiding" citizens to protect themselves from criminals.

Not to pull this off topic, but... no. That is not supported by any case study or reality at all. In fact, quite the opposite... less tough gun laws make it easier for criminals to get guns, making it more likely that they would be used.

We don't have a gun problem in the United States we have a people don't give a @#$& about innocent life problem.

You have a gun culture problem. That then exacerbates the other issues. But yes, you have a gun problem... but it sometimes seems that only the US can't see that. Or, at least, certain factions in the US.

How many people die every day at the hands of a drunk driver? Does the car get the blame? The alcohol? The drunk gets the blame. But let somebody shoot a group of people and the blame goes FIRST to the weapon.

Which is a completely different situation (a car is not designed to kill, a gun is, so the simple purpose of the item changes things immediately)... but, of course, there are very strict rules in place about drink driving, as well as safety measures that are legally required for cars, and so on... in other words, irrelevant, and, well... no.

Again, thank you for your opinion, its welcomed.

It seems you're responding to my comments, but there's no quote, so just in case, I'll respond to this as well.

I've actually been in 3 street fights, fun but dangerous... Luckily there were no weapons involved usually in situations like that... Usually the case is the other guy retaliates with gun shots because of shame.
I've actually lost a couple of my guys from gang violence starting from a fight ending in gun fire.

"Fun"? Hmm. And the pattern starting to form isn't really a good one here....

I was never a thug, but always in the wrong place in the wrong time.

Then you need to work on where you're going and your awareness. That's not just being aware of what's around you, it includes being aware of what's ahead of you, and whether or not you want to follow the path you're on...

In one particular fight though I wasnt expecting any of it, the dude tied to punk me out because I looked more harmless than anyone else... I ignored him of course, but dude invaded my personal space... at that time my guy shouted "just whoop his *** Tim" adrenaline began to pump through my body and I handed my dude my car keys (the guy is shouting at the side of my face the entire time) and as I began to take out my earrings... BOOM a punch, the dude snuck me. I didn't fall or stagger or anything just wasnt expected... obviously... SO then I turn towards him and he throws another punch but I grabbed him by the wrist and yanked him towards me and we ended up in a scuffle... I had him in some kind of "street clinch" and I was just letting him have it, so he tries to escape but I grabbed him by his shirt and threw him towards the side of the car, I mercilessly gave him 2 haymakers (left,right) before he ducked and scrambled to this girls front lawn, I then tackled dude... and was in a street mount??? I was done at this point... tired... no cardio/stamina... The dude reached out and scrached the side of my face then I threw a right punch that had to hurt, I threw another one and missed... because I was so tired. His dude tried to jump in but man it was like 8 of us so they let him have it...

None that impresses me. In fact, quite the opposite. Let's recap:

You were being challenged, and succumbed to pressure to fight, were preparing to fight, were getting ready to launch an attack, and then complain that the other guy got in first? You overwhelm the other guy, but don't disengage when he tries to get away, instead prolonging the fight, and when his friend tries to step in your eight guys "let him have it", and this reads as if you feel it was justified? But you're not a thug, right...

This is nothing but fail, and nothing you've been asking about (being physically strong etc) are really any advantage here.

Now, thats just one example... but I had 2 other fights the other in a college dormitory a bully type guy again... picked on me because I am the happy go lucky always smiling nice guy that takes a lot of crap. Long story short, he was making fun of me I tried to leave the room, he started shoving me then I snapped... I was in fight mode and then all of the sudden he didn't want to fight, but its waaaay too late at this point. He was 5'11 225 lbs mind you we were all college football players but at that time I was 5'9 185lbs but my strength was greater than his... anyways... I remember him pushing me back as I was stalking him, then he wrapped me up a bear hug type, but my arms were to my side... he then proceeded to slam me, but somehow IDK the dudes in the dorm didn't know how I escaped it and landed on him... well at this point, im in street mount again... then the ground and pound began... I was not stopping so his dude came and pushed me off... the bad part about it was after the fight he came back and hit me with a massive haymaker that floored me, my back was turned and i was in mid conversation with my guy Dante and all I remember is a quick flash and everything went in slow motion... I remember falling into Dante's stack of nike shoe boxes and then falling to the floor... face flat... but I got up instantly but I was dazed and couldn't remember what just happened... I was pissed because he ran and locked himself in his room after he did that, but I was even more pissed off at my "boys" for not stepping in... They claim they were all shocked and didnt expect it wither, but I was just angry at the time...

Yeah... this is just kids and ego. Frankly, you come to me with these stories, and I probably wouldn't train you. Unless you showed a lot more maturity and growth in the way you described things than you do here.

And, again, nothing in here would be noticeably helped with your requests.

Now from those 2 experiences the only reason I had advantages was because of my athleticism and strength even though it wasn't planned, my body triggered its defense/survival mode...

Those weren't what got you through.

I was good until I got knocked down which again no one can prepare you for...

Wrong.

So for me, I need to stay in physical shape, what if I wasn't strong physically in those situations... then what????
What if I wasn't athletic(God-Given)

There are a huge number of variables. What if you weren't so eager to fight? What if you weren't such a hothead? What if they had a weapon? What if you didn't have numbers on your side? What if you actually understood what social violence was, and what the monkey dance was all about?

In other words, what you think was the most important was actually a minor aspect.

I'm saying, I know what works for my body, been in it for 27yrs now and the better shape I am in the healthier I am in overall...
I will do weapons training, but again... there were no weapons available to me in those 2 situations so I had only to rely on my physical attributes...

No, you don't know what works for your body. You've made some assumptions that aren't actually backed up by your stories, and you aren't aware of what's really important.

I used that term "self-defense" because OP did. I would never use that term myself.

I know where you took the term from, but you specifically made a statement (question) implying a connection between sports and competition, and self defence. I counter that there really isn't a connection (refuting your claim), to get caught up in whether or not you'd use the term is irrelevant, you did, and have not answered the question I posed to you.

 

[tkizzle05]

Interesting... Dont assume much my friend.

This happened and from what I wrote there was no eagerness on my part whatsoever.

I was at a friends house 1 scenario, I was at school 2nd scenario... Ignorant people just decided to show up.
No fault on anyones par there.

Also... with strength comes everything... Define strength.

This was also prior to my MA journey, but being on both sides of the road I have an idea of what is what, at least from those 2 experiences.

I want to be as strong as I can be in whatever martial arts I choose to participate in.


THank you all for the advice and for the teachings much appreciated.

 

[Chris Parker]

To be blunt, I don't have to assume anything. Nothing you wrote was new, unique, or anything that hasn't been seen many times before, by myself, and others. In order, choose better friends, and learn more about social violence (how to recognize, as well as avoid it).

The only definition of strength I've been going on has been yours:

...but my heart is only concerned with survival. I have to be in shape and physically powerful, for that I need to be training daily. My entire body has to be prepared for a life or death situation, hands, feet, knees.

Frankly, you don't have much of an idea of what's what, that much is obvious. That's fine, in fact, it's very much the norm. But I might recommend that, when you have a number of people telling you you're focusing on the wrong things, you might listen to them... they do know what's what.

To take it back to your OP, there is really only one answer.

Visit each school you can, see which one you like the most. Don't be that concerned about what you want it to be... see if you can get something from the teacher, and like the group. If you don't, then it doesn't matter how much the system matches what you think it should be (for you).

 

[RTKDCMB]

How many people die every day at the hands of a drunk driver? Does the car get the blame? The alcohol? The drunk gets the blame. But let somebody shoot a group of people and the blame goes FIRST to the weapon.

Those are two entirely different situations, the intent is different. The drunk driver kills someone out of stupidity, recklessness and poor decision making, a loser that shoots up a group of people does it on purpose and there is plenty of blame to go around and most of it lies with the shooter. A drunk can't kill anyone with a car if he does not have easy access to one and you can't shoot up a group of people if you don't have a gun. More people die from shootings and drunk drivers than just drunk drivers but nobody complains when they make it harder to drive drunk.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How is competition or sport testing "self defence"?

have not answered the question I posed to you.

First you have to know what "you want to test". You then design competition rules for that purpose.

For example,

If you want to test

- head lock, whoever can get his opponent into a head lock,
- open hand against knife, whoever can use his plastic knife to cut his opponent's body, or the open hand guy can dis-arm his opponent's knife,
- 1 person fight against 3 opponents, whether that 1 person can knock/take the other 3 guys down, or the other way around,
- ...

that round is over, the new round will start.

For different day, you may want to "test" different skill. You may just want to test a single skill (such as head lock), you may want to test a set of skills (such as open hand against knife), the competition rules will be changed.

When I trained longfist, my longfist brothers set up a "dodge rocks throwing" competition.

- We drew a circle.
- 1 person stood inside the circle.
- Others threw tennis balls at him.
- If he could last for 30 seconds without being hit by those tennis balls, he won, otherwise he lose.

The nice thing about these kind of competition, you can keep a "record" and watch whether your record is getting better or getting worse. You then re-adjust your personal training accordingly.

 

[Chris Parker]

Thanks for this.

First you have to know what "you want to test". You then design competition rules for that purpose.

We want to test self defence skills. That's the premise of the comment you made.

For example,

If you want to test

- head lock, whoever can get his opponent into a head lock,
- open hand against knife, whoever can use his plastic knife to cut his opponent's body, or the open hand guy can dis-arm his opponent's knife,
- 1 person fight against 3 opponents, whether that 1 person can knock/take the other 3 guys down, or the other way around,
- ...

that round is over, the new round will start.

Well, that sounds more like games than sports or competition training, but I can see how it can be used in a very limited fashion to test a small fighting skill set. Not seeing much self defence, though, with both sides having the same aim or giving the "bad guys" the option of "winning".

For different day, you may want to "test" different skill. You may just want to test a single skill (such as head lock), you may want to test a set of skills (such as open hand against knife), the competition rules will be changed.

Cool. I'm not seeing anything that's testing self defence, nor that's sports or competition training though.

When I trained longfist, my longfist brothers set up a "dodge rocks throwing" competition.

- We drew a circle.
- 1 person stood inside the circle.
- Others threw tennis balls at him.
- If he could last for 30 seconds without being hit by those tennis balls, he won, otherwise he lose.

Again, a game, not much more than that. Neither self defence testing nor sports or competition.

The nice thing about these kind of competition, you can keep a "record" and watch whether your record is getting better or getting worse. You then re-adjust your personal training accordingly.

But doesn't address the actual statement.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Without the "sport" and "competition" environment, how can you "test" your self-defense skill?

You cannot test self-defense skills in a sport/competition environment. The training methodologies are diametrically opposite. Rather, self-defense training needs to entail realistic scenarios that are likely to happen in a real-world altercation. This never happens in a sport/competition environment because it is an artificially created environment.

 

[tkizzle05]

Am I not to take from my martial arts training what works for me? That is the goal... It has to be suitable for my needs.

What works for him may not work for me and vice versa...

I prefer to stay in shape... Its healthier and more pleasing to me.

This too translates over to unarmed combat, should the need arise... No ones talking bodybuilding, I'm talking over conditioning.

Throwing punches, throwing kicks, getting out of a choke hold, running away.... These all require strength and conditioning.

Every human needs this on some level, I'm wanting this included in the martial arts that I choose... For me.

If I get in a brawl, these will play a factor, I don't want to have to pull out a gun and shoot someone...

I could be at a baseball game with my son and an angry parent attacks me... If I'm out of shape, good luck Tim... But if I have been doing the proper training and conditioning, it should be easier... In theory.

That concept should be too easy to grasp, I'm simply seeking a martial art that offers training at a high level.

Bruce Lee had the same mindset which is why he said you must train every part of your body...

Soldiers train
Spartans train
Samurai train

I care about my body... I'm not getting a new one, I will grow old and die in this one... Go look in the mirror... You earned that.

I choose to stay in prime shape for as long as God allows, again in seeking a martial arts home that is serious about training and survival...

Thank you all.

Sent from my RM-860_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

 

[tkizzle05]

Sent from my RM-860_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Parker]

You cannot test self-defense skills in a sport/competition environment. The training methodologies are diametrically opposite. Rather, self-defense training needs to entail realistic scenarios that are likely to happen in a real-world altercation. This never happens in a sport/competition environment because it is an artificially created environment.

Pretty much exactly what I was getting at....

Am I not to take from my martial arts training what works for me? That is the goal... It has to be suitable for my needs.

What works for him may not work for me and vice versa...

Sure... but the things you've been focusing on (what you think works for you, which isn't actually what does [it's more of a post-hoc ergo propter hoc thing...]) aren't the same thing as looking for what works for you in a martial art. You've gone in with assumptions about what your attributes actually are, mainly informed by youth, bluntly, and are looking for something that fits what you think you're good at. If you already know what you're good at, and what works for you... you don't need a school. All they're going to tell you is that there's a different reality for you to understand and explore.

I prefer to stay in shape... Its healthier and more pleasing to me.

Cool, no problem with this at all. Agreed completely on this level.

This too translates over to unarmed combat, should the need arise... No ones talking bodybuilding, I'm talking over conditioning.

Uh... less agreement here. It's far more important for competitive systems, match fighting etc. Which is really nothing at all to do with your stated interest in self defence as an aim.

Throwing punches, throwing kicks, getting out of a choke hold, running away.... These all require strength and conditioning.

Not so much, no. Proper technique and training, yes.

Every human needs this on some level, I'm wanting this included in the martial arts that I choose... For me.

If you're after a system that focuses on conditioning (and strength, to a degree), look at competition styles... BJJ, MMA, Kyokushinkai, Judo... that's where you'll find it. Not in self defence systems.

If I get in a brawl, these will play a factor, I don't want to have to pull out a gun and shoot someone...

Again, not so much as you're thinking.

I could be at a baseball game with my son and an angry parent attacks me... If I'm out of shape, good luck Tim... But if I have been doing the proper training and conditioning, it should be easier... In theory.

Nope.

That concept should be too easy to grasp, I'm simply seeking a martial art that offers training at a high level.

Which is something completely different, and will mean something completely different to different arts.

Bruce Lee had the same mindset which is why he said you must train every part of your body...

And....? That isn't exactly what he was getting at, you realize...

Soldiers train
Spartans train
Samurai train

None of which are you... hell, there's no such thing as Spartans or samurai anymore.... and you've also missed entirely the point of the soldiers training the way they do.

I care about my body... I'm not getting a new one, I will grow old and die in this one... Go look in the mirror... You earned that.

I choose to stay in prime shape for as long as God allows, again in seeking a martial arts home that is serious about training and survival...

Thank you all.

Choose what you want. If you want self defence, survival orientated training, it's not going to focus that much on conditioning the way you're talking about it. If you want something for conditioning, strength etc, then you need to look to sport systems. It's really that simple... and it's why you've been told from the beginning that your ideas are out of whack with reality, and contradictory to each other.

And, again, it looks like you were answering me... but it's hard to tell when you don't use the quote function. All you need to do is click on the "Reply With Quote" button next to the "Reply" one... it'll reduce confusion.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Pretty much exactly what I was getting at....

I just did it better with a much shorter post. :rofl:

 

[Chris Parker]

Ha, to be fair, I only used 8 words.... for that part, at least...

 

[Spinedoc]

Sure... but the things you've been focusing on (what you think works for you, which isn't actually what does [it's more of a post-hoc ergo propter hoc thing...]) aren't the same thing as looking for what works for you in a martial art. You've gone in with assumptions about what your attributes actually are, mainly informed by youth, bluntly, and are looking for something that fits what you think you're good at. If you already know what you're good at, and what works for you... you don't need a school. All they're going to tell you is that there's a different reality for you to understand and explore.

Uh... less agreement here. It's far more important for competitive systems, match fighting etc. Which is really nothing at all to do with your stated interest in self defence as an aim.

If you're after a system that focuses on conditioning (and strength, to a degree), look at competition styles... BJJ, MMA, Kyokushinkai, Judo... that's where you'll find it. Not in self defence systems.

Which is something completely different, and will mean something completely different to different arts.

None of which are you... hell, there's no such thing as Spartans or samurai anymore.... and you've also missed entirely the point of the soldiers training the way they do.

Choose what you want. If you want self defence, survival orientated training, it's not going to focus that much on conditioning the way you're talking about it. If you want something for conditioning, strength etc, then you need to look to sport systems. It's really that simple... and it's why you've been told from the beginning that your ideas are out of whack with reality, and contradictory to each other.

Agreed 100% with this. To the OP, many martial arts are built around NOT using strength. Using technique and energy (not strength) to take on much bigger opponents. Which is why a small woman can take down a much bigger man with the right training and context.

In the MMA world, in BJJ, strength and conditioning play a huge role. In order to defend yourself? Not at all in my opinion.

You aren't a samurai. You aren't a soldier from what you've told us. That conditioning is not for one on one fighting in a street encounter, but rather for sustained combat efforts over days against other trained soldiers. I was stationed with 2nd Marine Recon during the Gulf War (the first one), and that conditioning was essential when I was caring a medical kit plus my combat gear in 100+ degree heat marching for days. It was essential for samurai who could be in a battle that could last weeks with daily fighting.

Neither of those has anything to do with defending yourself on the street. If you want to just stay fit to stay fit, well, good for you. Staying strong and fit is a good thing from a health perspective, but just remember, I don't care how fast or strong you are, or think you are......there is always, ALWAYS someone faster, bigger, and stronger than you (unless you're a freak and are 6'7", 295, and can run a 4.35 40-like the college kid I did a sports physical on a while back)

You need to listen to Chris. He's right on this. For example, I train in Aikido. Aikido, like many other arts, has nothing to do with your size, speed, or strength. It has everything to do with technique, blending, and manipulating energy. In fact, trying to muscle your way through won't work. It's counterintuitive, but the harder you try to fight and use your muscles, the less effective your technique becomes, the easier it is to resist it, and to counter it. If you relax, let go of using strength, and just focus on applying the technique properly, bam.....it works.

Just some of my thoughts.

Mike