Martial Arts Home.

[Chris Parker]

Well...yeah, of course. Part of my start slowly and progress from there, does cover many things. Really when you think about it, the amount of time normally spent on something, in the average school, is really small, compared to what it could/should be. I mean think about it...there are so many fine points that can and should be covered, things from stances, proper target, body alignment, what reactions you'll possibly get when you hit an area, etc. I've been training for a while, and I can name a hand full of teachers that I've interacted with, that actually take the time to explain this.

Yeah... overall, it's going to depend on the art, as much as anything else. Koryu are pretty well known for such an approach... you don't move on until you have gotten all those little details. Then there's arts like Seitei Iaido and Seitei Jodo... they have an entire syllabus of 12 techniques each (with Seitei Jodo having 12 formal kihon/basics)... no matter how long you train, there are only 12 techniques. Pretty much your entire career is spent refining and reviewing, going through all the fine points each session. An art such as Kenpo, which can have so many techniques, will, by necessity, have less time to spend on the details... in those instances, I've found (as it's pretty much the same with us) that the biggest development in skill is in personal reflection on the methods and home training... that's where you can get your repetition in. Ideally, you should then get correction from the instructor to ensure you're on the right track, but the bulk of it is home training.

LOL, yeah, so do I! Used to drive me nuts when I'd have someone throw a punch, and I wouldn't even have to move, because it would've never reached me in the first place. LOL. Gee, if you're afraid to hit me, are you going to be afraid of hitting the bad guy?? Don't worry...if you hit me, I"LL take the blame.

Yeah... it's more than that, of course. I personally don't think that the techniques even work properly without a real, proper attack. Additionally, it shows a lack of respect for your training partner.

LOL, I didn't figure you wanted to discuss him again. But yes, we see that all the time. I mean, when someone in a BJJ gym is learning a new mount escape, I doubt the guy on top is being totally uncooperative during that initial learning phase. All the "What if's" are usually, or should I say, are supposed to be covered later on. I view the techs as a base to build from. According to the top Kenpo guys, such as Doc, aka Ron Chapel, who spent a very long time training with GM Parker, in his eyes, if you're doing the tech right to begin with, you shouldn't have to worry about the other stuff. Hey, who knows...maybe he was taught some secret or special way of doing things, I don't know. I'm sure he's privy to things that I'm not. I'm simply saying that I don't want to assume that something will go as plan. IMO, when plan A doesn't work, you better have plan Z. IMO, saying that if you do this right, you won't need anything else, is akin to saying, "Well, my teacher learned this tech from his teacher, who learned it from his teacher, who learned it from his, and it worked for them, so it's gotta work for me!" Sorry, I don't care about them, I care about me.

Honestly, I'd agree with Doc there... the way the techniques are designed, the safeguards are already there. So, ideally, there shouldn't be a chance for something else to happen... that said, looking at potential situations is also a good idea. It might bring you back to the idea of "hey, that's why we do it this way... to prevent these attacks"... who knows...?

Good point. I can agree with that. Sad part is, in many cases, what you described doesn't happen in many schools, like it should.

Koryu, my friend, Koryu....

 

[Kframe]

I seem to recall the Bible saying that, if someone attacks you, you shouldn't even defend yourself - rather, you should turn the other cheek and let them strike you again.

I think that gun ownership should be legal - with reasonable restrictions - but it baffles me that so many Christians (pardon me if you practice another religion and I'm speaking out of turn) have the attitude that you mention, considering what the Bible actually says.

Ya that's not what he was talking about, good try though. Nothing you can say will sway me, I have a right to defend my self and my family. Until you and your party actually repeal the 2a, im going to use the best one. Not sure why you would want to take away tools people can use to defend them selvs. Seriously whats this BS about not defending your self? If you seriously believe that, why are you on this forum and why are you even in a martial art?

 

[RTKDCMB]

I seem to recall the Bible saying that, if someone attacks you, you shouldn't even defend yourself - rather, you should turn the other cheek and let them strike you again.

If you let someone attack you you will have no control on the level of violence, if you defend yourself successfully then you can chose when the violence stops and actually decrease the amount of violence in the world, surely that is morally preferable. If someone strikes me, the only way I would turn the other cheek is so they can kiss my ***.

 

[Kframe]

Agree'd RBTKD, that's is not what "he" was talking about. I don't think he was talking about self defense. I think he was talking about normal everyday arguments. He says to turn the cheek if they hit you. Which I interpret as accept what happened and move on, and end the anger between you. This was not a self defense situation as in other parts of the bible it mentions them carrying swords and that gods messengers have swords for a reason.

 

[WaterGal]

Ya that's not what he was talking about, good try though. Nothing you can say will sway me, I have a right to defend my self and my family. Until you and your party actually repeal the 2a, im going to use the best one. Not sure why you would want to take away tools people can use to defend them selvs. Seriously whats this BS about not defending your self? If you seriously believe that, why are you on this forum and why are you even in a martial art?

As I said - you apparently didn't read my comment, so maybe I shouldn't bother replying - I do think gun ownership should be legal. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that I want to repeal the second amendment. I do believe in defending oneself. However, I'm also not a Christian (anymore), so I don't believe in the Bible or what Jesus supposedly said.

What I said, simply, was that, according to the Bible, Jesus Christ preached that you should not defend yourself or use violence at all. So, again as I said, it seems odd to me that so many of his supposed followers also are big fans of shooting people in self-defense - and even, like you, use their religion to justify it.

ETA: As far as what it meant, here's the verse in question, from Luke 6: "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." That seems fairly straightforward to me. That's not about not arguing with your friend, it's about someone robbing you.

 

[Kframe]

Your still wrong. No where does it say to let your self get raped, or murdered. You can keep misinterpreting the bible, and I truly don't give a rip.

Edit to add. Im not going to bother finding the many versus, but you keep ignoring the versus that are in contradiction to that one. IF your not a Christian, stop trying to teach me something you don't believe in..

 

[MJS]

Yeah... overall, it's going to depend on the art, as much as anything else. Koryu are pretty well known for such an approach... you don't move on until you have gotten all those little details. Then there's arts like Seitei Iaido and Seitei Jodo... they have an entire syllabus of 12 techniques each (with Seitei Jodo having 12 formal kihon/basics)... no matter how long you train, there are only 12 techniques. Pretty much your entire career is spent refining and reviewing, going through all the fine points each session. An art such as Kenpo, which can have so many techniques, will, by necessity, have less time to spend on the details... in those instances, I've found (as it's pretty much the same with us) that the biggest development in skill is in personal reflection on the methods and home training... that's where you can get your repetition in. Ideally, you should then get correction from the instructor to ensure you're on the right track, but the bulk of it is home training.

Just one reason why *I* think there's too many techs, but that's another thread. IMO, it takes a special type of person to be happy with that type of training. I mean really, in todays world, where it seems the majority think more is better, well, imagine if someone walked into a school today and learned that there was only 12 techs! LOL! They'd be looking for the other 142! LOL! Few actually want to spend time going over the fine points. Oh well....to each their own.

Yeah... it's more than that, of course. I personally don't think that the techniques even work properly without a real, proper attack. Additionally, it shows a lack of respect for your training partner.

Agreed.

Honestly, I'd agree with Doc there... the way the techniques are designed, the safeguards are already there. So, ideally, there shouldn't be a chance for something else to happen... that said, looking at potential situations is also a good idea. It might bring you back to the idea of "hey, that's why we do it this way... to prevent these attacks"... who knows...?

Thing is...the Docs are rare. Sure, they're out there, but they're the minority, IMO.

Koryu, my friend, Koryu....