Let's talk about fat people

[Thems Fighting Words]

It all comes down to what you define as fat. If you're talking about a morbidly obese individual who has problems walking up steps, then I'd say, run up some steps and you're safe. However if we're talking about carrying a bit of extra weight (BMI of 25 to 30), then that's different. That extra layer of fat (especially around the gut) can be highly effective against strikes and bladed weapons. About a year or so back, some guy here in Oz got attacked by a chainsaw. He survived only because of his beer-gut. So as others have said, target the legs. Those legs are already under extra pressure from the excess weight. Even if they don't fall down, it makes running away easier.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Thesemindz,

The strategy to defeat weight-challenged people is a simple one. It's almost the same one a motorcycle uses to defeat a car.

Maneuver till you have a narrow passage way or obstacle they have to go through, or over. It can be between parked cars, doorways, between chairs, sofas, tables. It may be forcing them to go or around over street curbs, fire hydrants, lamps, etc…

Then strike for the eyes and throat. Kick for the legs (remember, those knees have to support an awful lot of weight.) No use punching them in the gut, so go for things like their hair. Stomp their feet (I bet they can’t move them out of the way fast either.)

Deaf

 

[shesulsa]

I posted this in someone's rep here, but thought I'd put it out there right here and echo what Brian VanCise said. I've met some very dangerous heavy people. They are not dangerous just because they are large, but because these particular people were *skilled.*

Omar, you might gain a little respect for adipose tissue once it kicks you squarely in the butt. :lol2:

 

[Archangel M]

Take a look at this:

http://www.yahoo.com/s/1047419

The USArmy is claiming that since 2005 it has turned away more "kids" between the ages of 17-24 due to not being able to make the Army weight standards than the entire force currently serving in Afghanistan. Thats over 48,000 "To Fat to Serve" Americans. This story states that 1 in 5 of all Americans able to serve are overweight.

 

[Thesemindz]

I posted this in someone's rep here, but thought I'd put it out there right here and echo what Brian VanCise said. I've met some very dangerous heavy people. They are not dangerous just because they are large, but because these particular people were *skilled.*

Omar, you might gain a little respect for adipose tissue once it kicks you squarely in the butt. :lol2:

I had a brown belt years ago we called "the giant." He was only 17, but he weighed over three hundred pounds, and was over six and a half feet tall.

During sparring class one night, he caught me in the thigh with a spin rear kick and I collapsed. I thought at first my leg was broken. I didn't stop fighting, instead I grabbed his ankles and took him down and mounted him and started pounding away. I still couldn't walk right for two weeks though.

During another class, he caught another brown belt in the face with a hook punch and shattered his cheek bone. The guy needed to get half his face rebuilt with wire frame. At that point we had to tell the guy he couldn't spar anymore. It was just too dangerous.

It wasn't that he didn't have control. It wasn't that he was sloppy. It was that he was strong and so heavy, that one strike could crush one of his opponents.

Don't forget that that big fat sloppy looking guy may only need to land one lucky shot to take you out of the fight.

Permanently.


-Rob

 

[Archangel M]

Fighting ability aside. It will kill you quicker in the long run health wise. Id hesitate before allowing "I can fight better than a skinny guy" thoughts to derail any effort to slim down.

 

[Thesemindz]

Fighting ability aside. It will kill you quicker in the long run health wise. Id hesitate before allowing "I can fight better than a skinny guy" thoughts to derail any effort to slim down.

I don't think anyone's advocating that.

I think everyone agrees that being thinner and more fit is always better than being fatter and less fit. I'm just asking what other people have observed about fighting fat people.


-Rob

 

[Ronin74]

Fighting ability aside. It will kill you quicker in the long run health wise. Id hesitate before allowing "I can fight better than a skinny guy" thoughts to derail any effort to slim down.

I have to agree with that. I myself am overweight, but I can still move. However, that's not going to stop me from getting down to my ideal weight.

I have a friend who used to teach Shotokan who, at 6' packs about 300 lbs, most of which is muscle. However, it's very clear how much stress that weight puts on his heart. He can hit hard and fast, but if the situation is prolonged, you can clearly hear how hard his breathing becomes, and he ALWAYS has to sit down between every few rounds of sparring.

 

[Ronin74]

I don't think anyone's advocating that.

I think everyone agrees that being thinner and more fit is always better than being fatter and less fit. I'm just asking what other people have observed about fighting fat people.


-Rob

Going back to that, if by fat you mean morbidly obese, and in a self-defense situation, I'd say the legs make the best target. There's already the stress of carrying that weight, so pushing that stress over the limit should be enough. Otherwise, running away and getting them gassed out is the ideal.

I'd have to agree with Deaf Smith that a gut shot would not be best since that's there center of gravity and it's coming in fast (at least for them). It's not to say that it won't work to hit an obese person in the gut. However, I myself have only done it in sparring and knocked some air out, where they're not necessarily charging at me. In a self-defense situation, it's sort of like trying to stop a semi-truck head on with a Honda Civic.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'm pretty fat, though I am struggling to lose the weight. And of course, as a newbie to MA, I'm not claiming to have any real insight, other than that of being a fat guy who spars. Couple thoughts.

First, my legs are STRONG. They're like oak trees. You won't do much with your wiry strong legs kicking at my monsters. Oh, it's going to hurt, sure, but you're not likely to get through that muscle to do any real damage. Those legs have been carrying our gigantic butts around for a long time, lots of exercise. My calves ain't calves, they's the whole bull.

Second, our kicks are liable to be low and slow but powerful. Easy to evade, but not easy to trap - unless you're significantly shorter than we are. However, watch out for sweeps - we have so much mass going for us, we can take you off what you think is a stable position if we get a good angle on you.

Third, the key to taking down a fat man is balance. We have a much harder time centering ourselves, and we overbalance easily. Recovery is slow from an off-balance position - that's minor muscle groups trying to stabilize a top-heavy load that they're not used to trying to control quickly. Trap a punch and pull it to your waist and step back, we go over towards you. Then you can take the legs right out, or just pull sharply and let us fall.

And for those who think the belly is a good target - you might want to reconsider that one. I have a huge gut - and it is rock hard. I do situps and pushups until I want to die. I don't have the six-pack, I have the entire keg. My fat is literally UNDER the muscle layer. You're not likely to get much from me with a nukite to the gut except jammed fingers.

A couple more targets on a fat man - the flab grab-and-twist under the arms, and the nerve strikes under the armpits - fat there does not do much to protect those areas from a nerve stike (trust me on this). The spare tire flab twist can also be effective if the guy has a significant one.

 

[jarrod]

as an aside, i just wanted to toss this info out for our overweight members: the low-carb thing is no joke. i've lost ten pounds in about two weeks by eating bacon, bbq ribs, string cheese, & corned beef brisket. just make sure you eat your fruits & veggies or else you won't poop. i still eat junk carbs one or two days a week. pretty easy diet, imo.

jf

 

[Raynac]

hmmm well Im not sure what to argue for an experienced martial art fighter, but I have found when sparring with inexperienced fat people (of course i was only one belt higher myself) that speed and balance were their weak points.

the one i fought had madly powerful kicks, simply put he had the body weight to throw into them that i could never muster, and he knew he was good at kicks so he tended to favor them, and i used that to my advantage (i like fast shots followed by a retreat) when I saw a kick coming i either jumped out of the way then counter attacked, or charged right into his body while he was on one leg, knocking him over.


now that I'm studying to-shin do I have to say I love training with the larger individuals, because being a smaller individual myself (just under 5'6" at 123 lbs) when I do a technique on a fat person I really learn how to do the technique, because there is no way im going to move them unless I do. and when I do complete the technique I can really feel that accomplishment.

 

[Raynac]

as an aside, i just wanted to toss this info out for our overweight members: the low-carb thing is no joke. i've lost ten pounds in about two weeks by eating bacon, bbq ribs, string cheese, & corned beef brisket. just make sure you eat your fruits & veggies or else you won't poop. i still eat junk carbs one or two days a week. pretty easy diet, imo.

jf

=o i hope you get alot of veggies in there, Im not sure your hearts gonna thank you for the rest of that diet.

 

[Akira]

As far as tactics, I weigh 70kgs and my mate weighs 120kgs. When we're sparring I can easily put him down with leg kicks (I train muay thai), and also by manipulating him into thinking I'm doing a different technique to what I'm doing. Lift my right leg up then quickly throw a left kick for example. I have to stay out of his range though, until I'm ready to attack because a couple of times he's grabbed me and lifted me above his big fat head.

Also the few fat people I've sparred have hit hard, but they do move a lot slower and it is easier to dodge their punches and move around the ring. Get out of the way, and wait for an opening. Easy.

 

[jarrod]

=o i hope you get alot of veggies in there, Im not sure your hearts gonna thank you for the rest of that diet.

i do get a lot of veggies & fruit, that's just good advice for any diet. i was worried about cholesterol too when i first heard about low-carb dieting, but it actually has been shown to lower your cholesterol:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/faq/f/carbcholesterol.htm

jfhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,384362,00.html

 

[Archangel M]

i do get a lot of veggies & fruit, that's just good advice for any diet. i was worried about cholesterol too when i first heard about low-carb dieting, but it actually has been shown to lower your cholesterol:

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/faq/f/carbcholesterol.htm

jf

And the role of dietary fat and cholesterol in health and heart disease has been undergoing some major scrutiny lately. Some docs are now saying that our current belief regarding them isnt necessarialy true.

http://www.healthymuslim.com/articl...rt-hypothesis-what-if-bad-fat-isnt-so-bad.cfm

http://www.healthymuslim.com/articles/fxusv-the-big-fat-con-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol.cfm

Go figure.

Its the high volume of carbs (mostly crap carbs), lack of exercise and carrying too much bodyfat for too much of your life that will "get ya".

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

First, my legs are STRONG. They're like oak trees. You won't do much with your wiry strong legs kicking at my monsters. Oh, it's going to hurt, sure, but you're not likely to get through that muscle to do any real damage. Those legs have been carrying our gigantic butts around for a long time, lots of exercise. My calves ain't calves, they's the whole bull.

Ah, see here's the thing. Your legs are large because of muscle as opposed to jelly. I've trained with power lifters and although they looked fat, they had a ton of muscle. So even though their BMI was very high (some in the 35 to 40 category), the fat layer was merely the surface and under it there was a ton of muscle. I've also trained with guys who were blob legged and a few hits to the legs and they lost all mobility and balance.
I think people need to define what they mean by fat. Cus even though I myself just used it in a previous post, the BMI index is not always the best measure.

 

[jarrod]

also the trick is to kick the knee, not the thigh. which is a good SD tech whoever you're fighting. overweight people often have strong muscles but weak joints from carrying excess weight.

jf

 

[Andy Moynihan]

You need to take out a big tree, you chop at its base.

 

[searcher]

You need to take out a big tree, you chop at its base.

Agreed!!! Take it out with a nice side kick to the knee.