Legal self defense tool for untrained?

[wushuguy]

I am helping some friends of mine who don't train in martial arts, to find some tool or device they can use to defend against an assailant. I know there's such things like pepper spray, but don't know what else is available. They don't like to use a pocket knife, cuz they're likely to hurt themselves.

I'd like to know what you guys think is effective, easy to use, and what drawbacks or good points a device has...

Thanks!

 

[Nolerama]

I've got a pair of comfy Nikes.

And I'm "Gellin".

That would help with an assailant.

Personally, to keep a weapon on your person for the sole intention of protecting yourself carries the same responsibilities as if you trained for years with that weapon... But your friends haven't.

They're more than likely to get that weapon taken from them, and used to their disadvantage.

I think it would be unwise/irresponsible to be like "hey, here's an object you can use to protect yourself... even though you don't know how to use it!"

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Any weapon a person carries can be taken away and used against them. If a person cannot or is not willing to become expert in the use of weaponry, they are risking their lives by simply carrying it.

No magic bullets. Sorry.

 

[Nolerama]

You could get a really thick PVC pipe, paint it camo green and stencil B-A-Z-O-O-K-A on the side of it, next to an Acme logo and have them walk around. That would not only be intimidating to various road runners and wabbits, but entertaining to the rest of us!

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Like was mentioned above an untrained person has a real risk of having any weapon taken away and used against them.
the lists of negatives are so many and positives are almost non existent that I have to recommend getting them trained as the best weapon to use....
that being said, I really like the super high powered small hand held flashlights.. shine those in an attackers eyes and run, or use it as a mace weapon while trying to escape are both good and easy ways to use a tactical light.

 

[Omar B]

Yeah, a weapon can always be turned against you. One of my favorite novelists John Le Carre writes spy novels and one of the things he always stresses is never carry a weapon. You can be found in the wrong place with one or one can be used against you.

Tell your friend to get a small maglite flashlight if they are dead set on a weapon. Cops won't take away a flashlight and it can be used as a pretty compact thrusting weapon.

 

[just2kicku]

Anything can be used as a weapon, hell, a sharpened pencils' a great weapon. No weapon in the world is gonna do any good in your pocket though.

If they need a weapon, their mind is the best one they've got, sharpen it, and they won't have to worry about it.

 

[jks9199]

There's too much variability in laws to really answer this. Pepper spray, chemical mace, and other similar items are legal in some states, but not others. Same thing with the civilian Taser or stun guns. All of it requires at least minimal training -- you gotta know which way to point it, if nothing else!

I'd encourage them to carry a cell phone and flashlight. And practice really good awareness!

 

[tellner]

The actual risk of "having the weapon taken away and used against you" is statistically insignificant. Seriously. Back when Kleck was first publishing his work on DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) that was brought up a lot. The NIJ commissioned a couple studies which demonstrated pretty convincingly that defenders were disarmed in about 1/10000th of 1% of cases.

That's not an argument against training. And anyone who hasn't made The Decision should not own let alone carry a defensive deadly weapon. But it is an indication that you don't have to become an expert to effectively use these tools.

By the bye, the same studies showed that police were disarmed by criminals significantly more often. The studies hypothesized, and I concur, that's because of the very special nature of police work. An officer has to do much riskier things. He or she has to get close to, restrain and handcuff a suspect where a citizen is trying to make the attacker leave. In regular self defense cases the defender usually knows who the attacker is and why he's attacking. A cop arriving on the scene might not know anything except that there's been a report of a disturbance. Who's the attacker? Who's the victim? What do they want?

 

[harold]

There's too much variability in laws to really answer this. Pepper spray, chemical mace, and other similar items are legal in some states, but not others. Same thing with the civilian Taser or stun guns. All of it requires at least minimal training -- you gotta know which way to point it, if nothing else!

I'd encourage them to carry a cell phone and flashlight. And practice really good awareness!

A good LED flashlight is a good thing to have. Surefire makes some great ones that can disorient an attacker and allow you that extra second to RUN!

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

How about something they know how to use as a sporting implement (I'm thinking a bat of some kind). At least they'll know how to hit things with it and they can carry it to and from sporting venues, parks or pretty much anywhere (well except nightclubs and what not).

 

[Andy Moynihan]

The actual risk of "having the weapon taken away and used against you" is statistically insignificant. Seriously. Back when Kleck was first publishing his work on DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) that was brought up a lot. The NIJ commissioned a couple studies which demonstrated pretty convincingly that defenders were disarmed in about 1/10000th of 1% of cases.

That's not an argument against training. And anyone who hasn't made The Decision should not own let alone carry a defensive deadly weapon. But it is an indication that you don't have to become an expert to effectively use these tools.

By the bye, the same studies showed that police were disarmed by criminals significantly more often. The studies hypothesized, and I concur, that's because of the very special nature of police work. An officer has to do much riskier things. He or she has to get close to, restrain and handcuff a suspect where a citizen is trying to make the attacker leave. In regular self defense cases the defender usually knows who the attacker is and why he's attacking. A cop arriving on the scene might not know anything except that there's been a report of a disturbance. Who's the attacker? Who's the victim? What do they want?

Quoted For Truth.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Any weapon a person carries can be taken away and used against them. If a person cannot or is not willing to become expert in the use of weaponry, they are risking their lives by simply carrying it.

No magic bullets. Sorry.

Also Quoted For Truth, although I might have said "Proficient in the weapon to be owned/carried" rather than "expert in weaponry", perhaps.

But then, I consider disarming/retention/knowledgee of how to use your gun's safety features in a snatch attempt to be every bit as much a part of that as marksmanship. *shrug*. So I may be looking at it differently than the majority.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I am helping some friends of mine who don't train in martial arts, to find some tool or device they can use to defend against an assailant. I know there's such things like pepper spray, but don't know what else is available. They don't like to use a pocket knife, cuz they're likely to hurt themselves.

I'd like to know what you guys think is effective, easy to use, and what drawbacks or good points a device has...

Thanks!

Buy them this book and video series:

http://www.armedresponsetraining.com/

If they haven't the maturity or interest to go to firearms, have 'em take a look here:

http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/hochheim_training_mission_dvds.html

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Also Quoted For Truth, although I might have said "Proficient in the weapon to be owned/carried" rather than "expert in weaponry", perhaps.

But then, I consider disarming/retention/knowledgee of how to use your gun's safety features in a snatch attempt to be every bit as much a part of that as marksmanship. *shrug*. So I may be looking at it differently than the majority.

I think I like the way you said it better - thanks!

 

[K-man]

How about a dulo-dulo.
Minimal training required, very easy to use, very effective in a low violence situation. You can also get key-ring varieties.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I am helping some friends of mine who don't train in martial arts, to find some tool or device they can use to defend against an assailant. I know there's such things like pepper spray, but don't know what else is available. They don't like to use a pocket knife, cuz they're likely to hurt themselves.

I'd like to know what you guys think is effective, easy to use, and what drawbacks or good points a device has...

Thanks!

There are plenty of options, but they have the wrong mindset from the outset........so any weapon they utilize will ultimately be handicapped by that reality. The human mind, properly applied, is the only real weapon......all other objects are tools of that mind. If that mind is not sharpened and honed toward self-defense, those tools are useless.

Or as the late great Jeff Cooper pointed out, 'Owning a gun doesn't make you armed anymore than owning a guitar makes you a musician'.

 

[Guardian]

Or as the late great Jeff Cooper pointed out, 'Owning a gun doesn't make you armed anymore than owning a guitar makes you a musician'.

I hate to disagree with Mr. Cooper, but I would say it makes you armed, but it doesn't make you capable. (can't find a wink).

 

[mook jong man]

I've got a thing called The Stinger , no not a missile system. My instructor brought some back from your country.
I take it your American .
Its a molded plastic thing that fits in your hand with a point coming out through your knuckles , like a knuckle duster , but it can also be used for accupressure .

Its a force multiplier , and it doesn't hinder the function of your hand at all , I can still do trapping while it is in my hand . I gave it to my wife to use , but the thing is she has basic Wing Chun deflection skills as well .

So its not going to be much use to your friends unless they know how to block an incoming strike and have basic punching skills so they can get into range to use the Stinger.

It might be illegal over there anyway , it is over here. But if you teach your friends some basic blocking and basic punching then it might be an option , and if they don't want to do that.

Tell them to get off their lazy arses , find a school and do some training.
As my mother always used to be fond of saying , God helps those , that help themselves.

 

[Aikicomp]

I am helping some friends of mine who don't train in martial arts, to find some tool or device they can use to defend against an assailant. I know there's such things like pepper spray, but don't know what else is available. They don't like to use a pocket knife, cuz they're likely to hurt themselves.

I'd like to know what you guys think is effective, easy to use, and what drawbacks or good points a device has...

Thanks!

As others have said to have a weapon and not know how to use it is giving them a false sense of security. Whatever weapon they do decide upon whether it be mace, gun, kuboton, flashlight...make sure they have the training that accompanies it as well as the mental mindset that will also be neede to endure such a situation.

I remember a saying (I forget where I heard it) that went something to the effect of:

" A sword in the hands of a coward is useless" not saying that your friends are cowards but, you get the idea.


Michael