kukiwon certification

[Manny]

How many of you have the kukiwon certification (black belt)? I don't need to be a black belt certificaed by KKW to teach or even open a dojang I guess, and I know that some guys here are just certificated by his/her own dojang. It's so crucial to be kuki certified?

Manny

 

[d1jinx]

I do.

But unless you want to teach Kukki TKD and want to certify your students through KKW....
Otherwise... who cares.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I hold a Kukkiwon dan grade. I hold a higher grade independently, but my Kukki grade is the one that I consider official and the one that I consider my actual grade to be.

As to how crucial it is, it really depends on what you are doing. Certain levels of competition require a Kukki grade of a certain level, so if you are an athlete competing at those levels, then it is fairly crucial.

If you want to be part of a unified, global taekwondo, again, it is fairly crucial.

If you are training/teaching in your own place and your students are aware that grades from your school are only really valid within the school walls, then it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Regardless of what you are doing, I consider it to be beneficial. You don't pay the Kukkiwon any kind of annual dues or membership fees and their association fees for dan grade testings are very reasonable. Being a Kukkiwon certified instructor of fourth dan or greater enables you to offer another benefit to your students.

From a marketing standpoint, in a certification/degree obsessed United States, having certification with a legitimate international association is certainly a potential benefit.

Daniel

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I do.

But unless you want to teach Kukki TKD and want to certify your students through KKW....
Otherwise... who cares.

I think more should care as the KKW is the world TKD academy. Having a certificate from them means something, with that something evaluated by individuals in the way they see best. I pride myself from having certificates signed by what I consider the principle founder of my martial art. Imagine having a certificate signed by the man who made the name TKD.
I would love to see one clear, strong world-wide standard certificate that would say, this person earned this!
(I know, even earned is subjective)
While the KKW has no real standard that can be enforced world-wide (no one does in fact), it is the mecca of TKD & as such is a valued & respected piece of paper, or at least should be by all.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Unless you want to compete in the Olympics or train students to compete in the Olympics it's not necessary.

Pax,

Chris

 

[jthomas1600]

Many, I'll just reply from a new comer to TKD and a students perspective. I had no idea what Kukiwon, ITF, WTF, or any of the other stuff was when we went looking for a school. We ended up in a Kukiwon school but I chose the school based on what we saw in the instructor and the other students. I would be perfectly happy in an independent school and am not overly concerned with how fancy my instructors certificate is or who signed it.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I also think that it is far more important to feel that one has earned their belt & that this feeling is made complete when both your instructor, examiner(s) & outsiders say, YES this person DID INDEED sweat, work hard, learn & earn this recognition.
It is far more important to earn & demonstrate on the floor, in the arena that it was earned. If that happens, the piece of paper is not important, but hopefully that paper will reflect the earning, if so, then the paper by virtue of what it represents has significance as it comes to signify the process of earning it.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

Unless you want to compete in the Olympics or train students to compete in the Olympics it's not necessary.

Pax,

Chris

Actually that may not be the case, as the WTF will now recognize students & their certificates issued by the WTA, a group of ITF Pioneers. I also read somewhere that the Olympic rules do not allow for discrimination, as no boxer needs a piece of paper from the ABC Boxing Group. They just need to win their national trials or successfully complete their respective national selection process.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Actually that may not be the case, as the WTF will now recognize students & their certificates issued by the WTA, a group of ITF Pioneers. I also read somewhere that the Olympic rules do not allow for discrimination, as no boxer needs a piece of paper from the ABC Boxing Group. They just need to win their national trials or successfully complete their respective national selection process.

In that case it's totally unnecessary. (I'd be interested in seeing a case brought before the Olympics with a non-KKW certified person wanting to compete, though. Does one have to be KKW certified to compete for a country's Olympic team in the first place?)

Pax,

Chris

 

[dancingalone]

No, I am not KKW certified and I have been fairly outspoken in the past about the lack of value in general of 'certification' from any organization, not just the KKW.

Yet, I am currently mulling over an opportunity to take over a commercial TKD studio. It is owned by a friend of mine who is KKW, and part of the deal would be taking steps to become eventually a KKW certified instructor.

Bah.

 

[DMcHenry]

I have a KKW cert, but a personal dojang certificate much higher. Although my primary art is TSD, I do help teach at a Kukki-TKD dojang once a week.

I would just say it's a 'nice to have'.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

In that case it's totally unnecessary. (I'd be interested in seeing a case brought before the Olympics with a non-KKW certified person wanting to compete, though. Does one have to be KKW certified to compete for a country's Olympic team in the first place?)

Pax,

Chris

That would appear to be a key legal point that may vary from nation to nation & their respective laws & legal processes.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I have a KKW cert, but a personal dojang certificate much higher. Although my primary art is TSD, I do help teach at a Kukki-TKD dojang once a week.

I would just say it's a 'nice to have'.

I think it would also be nice to have.
Now how do you fit in at the KKW dojang with your primary TangSuDo?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

No, I am not KKW certified and I have been fairly outspoken in the past about the lack of value in general of 'certification' from any organization, not just the KKW.

Certain things have an intrinsic value. Food, for example, has intrinsic value; we need it to survive. Land has intrinsic value; it is required to grow crops in any meaningful amount.

Other things have an arbitrary value. Gold, for example, has only the value that is placed upon it arbitrarilly because someone arbitrarilly decided that because it was rarer and prettier, it had greater value.

But gold has little or no intrinsic value. In fact, it probably has greater practical value now (it is a conductive metal) than it did when explorers searched for mythical cities made of the stuff.

Gold is just shiney and pretty. It really isn't good for much outside of ornamentation, and those things that it is good for are often better served with materials that both function better and which cost less.

Now, does that make gold useless? Of course not. But I do not need gold to secure the items that I actually do need.

KKW certification has a value similar to that of gold. It is valuable to a large group of people. It does afford you certain benefits that would be otherwise unattainable. It also impresses a great many people who do not have it. But you do not need it to teach taekwondo or to train in taekwondo.

Like gold, it affords you things that you may not 'need' but that will enhance your experience and that will connect you to people that you might otherwise not be able to connect with.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

KKW certification has a value similar to that of gold. It is valuable to a large group of people. It does afford you certain benefits that would be otherwise unattainable. It also impresses a great many people who do not have it. But you do not need it to teach taekwondo or to train in taekwondo.

Like gold, it affords you things that you may not 'need' but that will enhance your experience and that will connect you to people that you might otherwise not be able to connect with.

Daniel

Yep, I've said all along if membership in an org gives you the chance to train with excellent people, than it is of value. I'm a member of the United States Aikido Federation which has ample seminar and advanced training opportunities.

But to be blunt, if your TKD (or karate or aikido or whatever) is bad, no amount of certificates or membership cards can cover that. And furthermore, the place of the organization should be way behind in importance to the relationship you have with your own teacher. I sometimes get the feeling that for some, the exact opposite is true.

 

[miguksaram]

How many of you have the kukiwon certification (black belt)? I don't need to be a black belt certificaed by KKW to teach or even open a dojang I guess, and I know that some guys here are just certificated by his/her own dojang. It's so crucial to be kuki certified?

Manny

I am KKW certified. Is it crucial to have it? It depends on what your goals are in the martial arts. While to some the KKW cert means nothing to others it means a lot. So it is your personal preference. However, if you are trying to keep the vision of the original pioneers alive then yes, it would be considered crucial to be KKW certified.

 

[DMcHenry]

(in response to Karatemom)

I am embraced by the inctructor and students. I enjoy working with them, and have received very positive feedback. The instructor has turned over class to me completely some nights, and may be there training or has even left, trusting me to run class for him (I do attend an Arnis class afterward).

So even though we may do some things differently, the vast majority is identical. They get to learn some new things from me, and I have fun teaching them. Partly I think it's just my teaching style. I just explain my 'style' is from an older TKD (started in the mid '70s) but we're all TKD. I had tested up through 5th Dan for TKD and have been promoted to 7th in TSD - but I eventually did test and was registered for a 1st Dan KKW. My TSD instructor was 9th Dan KKW but didn't award KKW certs. I received my last TKD promotions from a TKD/TSD master who is 6th Dan KKW.

I've trained in independent, KKW & ITF dojangs besides TSD & HKD, and spent many years with several Japanese styles too. It's all good. Experiences come in many flavors which all add to my general knowledge and background. Helps me to better relate to students from all different schools/styles. I just prefer TSD.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Yep, I've said all along if membership in an org gives you the chance to train with excellent people, than it is of value. I'm a member of the United States Aikido Federation which has ample seminar and advanced training opportunities.

But to be blunt, if your TKD (or karate or aikido or whatever) is bad, no amount of certificates or membership cards can cover that. And furthermore, the place of the organization should be way behind in importance to the relationship you have with your own teacher. I sometimes get the feeling that for some, the exact opposite is true.

I absolutely agree. Certifying a person with 'bad' taekwondo doesn't make their taekwondo any less bad; with or without the certificate, it's still bad.

Kind of like gold plating a Yugo. Yes, it may be prettier, and people who are impressed by gold plated things may be impressed, but in the end, its still just a Yugo.

The only difference really is that a person with bad taekwondo can potentially make their taekwondo better through proper instruction and practice, while a Yugo will always be a Yugo.

Daniel

 

[KarateMomUSA]

(in response to Karatemom)

I am embraced by the inctructor and students. I enjoy working with them, and have received very positive feedback. The instructor has turned over class to me completely some nights, and may be there training or has even left, trusting me to run class for him (I do attend an Arnis class afterward).

So even though we may do some things differently, the vast majority is identical. They get to learn some new things from me, and I have fun teaching them. Partly I think it's just my teaching style. I just explain my 'style' is from an older TKD (started in the mid '70s) but we're all TKD. I had tested up through 5th Dan for TKD and have been promoted to 7th in TSD - but I eventually did test and was registered for a 1st Dan KKW. My TSD instructor was 9th Dan KKW but didn't award KKW certs. I received my last TKD promotions from a TKD/TSD master who is 6th Dan KKW.

I've trained in independent, KKW & ITF dojangs besides TSD & HKD, and spent many years with several Japanese styles too. It's all good. Experiences come in many flavors which all add to my general knowledge and background. Helps me to better relate to students from all different schools/styles. I just prefer TSD.

Sounds like you would make a good & qualified candidate for a KKW skip Dan(s) program. Thank you for your response & keep up the good work.

 

[KarateMomUSA]

I absolutely agree. Certifying a person with 'bad' taekwondo doesn't make their taekwondo any less bad; with or without the certificate, it's still bad.

Plus in my view it can devalue the perceived value of the certificate. This if it happens, can have a corrosive effect on other like certified & deserving students.